GUILTY AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #6

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oceanblueeyes said:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/15/arizona.boy.homicide/

During a news conference after the sentencing, Wood was asked how confident he is the treatment will work for his client.

"I don't know, ask me in three years. Ask me when he's been through the process of having his brain picked ... then maybe we will find out," Wood said.

Asked the same question, Whiting replied, "50-50 ... I would bet it's going to be a tough road."
Click to expand...

And that is the difference between prosecution and defense.
 
southcitymom said:
I too am glad he will be leaving the county - he really doesn't stand much of a break there.

OBE, I will be very surprised to hear of any abuse at Romans's hands....though the boy could have perceived him as an adult who stood by and did nothing while the boy felt other adults were harming him. I (and this is just my opinion) think he killed Tim because Tim would have been a witness....I don't know that the boy necessarily planned out Tim's (or even his Dad's) murder way in advance - shooting Tim could have been a passionate decision made at the last minute when the boy was under the duress of having killed his Dad, not wanting to get caught and feeling like it was the right sort of "cops and robbers" type decision - to get rid of a witness.

I am not surprised to hear that there was "pervasive" psychological and some physical abuse - others close to the case have said that all along. I agree with you that the child's reaction was extremely abnormal even in the face of abuse.

My continued prayers for these families.
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You know it was said in court that this boy was either going to kill himself or his abuser.

Ironic thing is that if he would have killed himself everyone would have said "oh my can you imagine what kind of terror this 8 year old boy lived in" but he made the later decision and he is the devil's spawn. Think about about that. What a double standard.
 
What a defense attorney says to get sympathy for his client is proof of nothing.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2010/01/15/20100115stjohns0115.html

Wood also told the court that on that day in November 2008, Christian felt compelled to either take his own life or carry out slayings. Authorities never revealed a motive, but Wood said Thursday that, based on evidence and evaluation, he believes Christian had been emotionally abused at home, though not physically traumatized.

Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting disagreed, saying problems inside the Romero household never rose to a level of abuse. John Andreas Jr., a spokesman and friend to the Romans family, described Christian as "a spoiled brat" who took two lives because he didn't want to be spanked for failing to complete homework assignments.

imo
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Never mind Charger. I found the link.

What a defense attorney says to get sympathy for his client is proof of nothing.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2010/01/15/20100115stjohns0115.html

Wood also told the court that on that day in November 2008, Christian felt compelled to either take his own life or carry out slayings. Authorities never revealed a motive, but Wood said Thursday that, based on evidence and evaluation, he believes Christian had been emotionally abused at home, though not physically traumatized.

Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting disagreed, saying problems inside the Romero household never rose to a level of abuse. John Andreas Jr., a spokesman and friend to the Romans family, described Christian as "a spoiled brat" who took two lives because he didn't want to be spanked for failing to complete homework assignments.

imo
Click to expand...

bolded by me

Same as the DA, defense and DA argued only in their own interest so it's logic that the DA opposed what the defense says! I just ask me, why stayed the contend of the evaluation's sealed ?
imo
 
trofanji said:
bolded by me

Same as the DA, defense and DA argued only in their own interest so it's logic that the DA opposed what the defense says! I just ask me, why stayed the contend of the evaluation's sealed ?
imo
Click to expand...

I have never known of psyche evaluations being unsealed especially if the person is a minor and there was a plea deal.

imo
 
http://ktar.com/index.php?nid=6&sid=1252868

"50-50, I don't know," Whiting said after Thursday's sentencing. "The psychiatrist who treated him and worked with him -- one of them is not very hopeful, the other one holds out some hope."

Wood said that the boy might have killed himself had he not shot and killed his father, Vincent Romero, 29.

imo
 
Linda7NJ said:
I am wondering what his mother is gonna do?

I wonder if she will consistanly visit and attend the family threapy portion?

Will she leave the state?

She is unemployed and living with Liz, no need to once he's placed...........she won't be getting Vince's SSI.....Just wondering aloud
Click to expand...

I am wondering about all these things too, Linda. I hope she will move close and be involved in his treatment.
 
Chargergal said:
You know it was said in court that this boy was either going to kill himself or his abuser.

Ironic thing is that if he would have killed himself everyone would have said "oh my can you imagine what kind of terror this 8 year old boy lived in" but he made the later decision and he is the devil's spawn. Think about about that. What a double standard.
Click to expand...

Either outcome (killing self or killing two others) is a strange and unique thing for an 8-year-old under pressure to do. IMO, killing two other adults is even more strange for a child this age than killing himself.

I've never thought this child was the devil's spawn, so I can't really comment on that part of your post, but who said in court that the child was going to either kill himself or his "abuser" - I haven't read that anywhere.
 
southcitymom said:
Either outcome (killing self or killing two others) is a strange and unique thing for an 8-year-old under pressure to do. IMO, killing two other adults is even more strange for a child this age than killing himself.

I've never thought this child was the devil's spawn, so I can't really comment on that part of your post, but who said in court that the child was going to either kill himself or his "abuser" - I haven't read that anywhere.
Click to expand...

What is obvious to me South is the defense, state and even his family all along felt this kid needed to be housed in a treatment facility full time where he is unable to leave. Now he may not be the devil's spawn but imo it shows they all know something is seriously wrong with this boy and they are all hoping upon hope that he can be treated. Imo this case has nothing to do with his preceived emotional abuse but is about the way his mind worked where it would make him capable of doing these violent acts. I think they all realized when he murdered Tim Romans too that something was very wrong with him.

But when his own psychiatrist who has treated him all this time has very little hope and the other one has only some hope of success then it makes me think this is nothing about healing supposed emotional abuse but hoping they can treat a child that has a major conduct disorder.

imo
 
Shock said:
The sentence affords young Romero an opportunity for Redemption. What he does on his 18th birthday is up to him. Not the court.
Without a legal name change he is doomed.

We all want to know his motive. Should that have not been a requirement of the Court to make a record of a killer's motives?
Click to expand...

If he doesn't work super hard and WANT to embrace the chance and If his mother doesn't stick around and actively participate in his treatment & visit consistently, he'll be doomed anyway.

IMO His motive was he felt abused. ( regardless if he was or not) his motive for murdering Tim was far more sinister...he wanted to eliminate him as a witness and get away with the crimes.
 
Chargergal said:
Why are you wondering about this?
Click to expand...


The truth is...secure residential treatment facilities have a dismal record of actually rehabilitating violent aggressive offenders.

Children don't get much more violent or aggressive than this boy.

Parents and family support and dynamics statistically bear out it's the single most important factor when rehabilitating a child like this. "Family," as defined by the child, MUST be a part of the process and be available long after.

If his mother leaves the state, fails to consistently visit, doesn't show up for family therapy...the boy will be abandoned yet again emotionally. He will fail. I would also hope his grandparents can manage participation too. I have far more confidence in his grandparents.....but the boy is going to need his mother. He always did.
 
Oh...I believe this kid has severe conduct disorder, I always did. But now I have some corroboration from both lawyers....neither believes the usual 12-18 month stay is going to be sufficient, nor is either confident he CAN be rehabilitated. Both recognised he is a very young boy and deserves a chance.

Conduct disordered children are best treated in a therapeutic foster home. It's sad that this child's crimes were so horrific, that isn't possible. Secured facilities like the one he'll be in....not so great.........but he will be locked up and no danger to society while they try. Honestly, I feel rather bad for the other children housed there and what negative effect he may have on them .......considering much of his time will be spent in group therapy.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
http://ktar.com/index.php?nid=6&sid=1252868

"50-50, I don't know," Whiting said after Thursday's sentencing. "The psychiatrist who treated him and worked with him -- one of them is not very hopeful, the other one holds out some hope."

Wood said that the boy might have killed himself had he not shot and killed his father, Vincent Romero, 29.

imo
Click to expand...

Neither of the two psychiatrists who EVALUATED him have TREATED him. There is a big difference between the two...
 
Linda7NJ said:
The truth is...secure residential treatment facilities have a dismal record of actually rehabilitating violent aggressive offenders.

Children don't get much more violent or aggressive than this boy.

Parents and family support and dynamics statistically bear out it's the single most important factor when rehabilitating a child like this. "Family," as defined by the child, MUST be a part of the process and be available long after.

If his mother leaves the state, fails to consistently visit, doesn't show up for family therapy...the boy will be abandoned yet again emotionally. He will fail. I would also hope his grandparents can manage participation too. I have far more confidence in his grandparents.....but the boy is going to need his mother. He always did.
Click to expand...

I recall reading something about 4 young boys in Florida dousing their friend in rubbing alcohol and setting him on fire...I think that was pretty violent and aggressive.

I doubt this is the only child who has every killed their parent...in fact I know it is not. And this is not the only child who killed an innocent bystander because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't think it is right and I am not making an excuse for this child. I think this boy needs help and I'm sure he will get it.
 
Chargergal said:
I recall reading something about 4 young boys in Florida dousing their friend in rubbing alcohol and setting him on fire...I think that was pretty violent and aggressive.

I doubt this is the only child who has every killed their parent...in fact I know it is not. And this is not the only child who killed an innocent bystander because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't think it is right and I am not making an excuse for this child. I think this boy needs help and I'm sure he will get it.
Click to expand...

I am mising your point.

This boy is the ONLY EIGHT YEAR old DOUBLE murderer that I am aware of. He's the youngest to kill in such a planned, determined and difficult way.

I am quite sure he will be the ONLY double murderer where he's placed.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
http://ktar.com/index.php?nid=6&sid=1252868

"50-50, I don't know," Whiting said after Thursday's sentencing. "The psychiatrist who treated him and worked with him -- one of them is not very hopeful, the other one holds out some hope."

Wood said that the boy might have killed himself had he not shot and killed his father, Vincent Romero, 29.

imo
Click to expand...


BBM

I would bet the one that isn't very hopeful believes this kid to be a budding psychopath. I would LOVE to see this boy's evaluations, especially the psychopathy checklist.
 
Linda7NJ said:
Oh...I believe this kid has severe conduct disorder, I always did. But now I have some corroboration from both lawyers....neither believes the usual 12-18 month stay is going to be sufficient, nor is either confident he CAN be rehabilitated. Both recognised he is a very young boy and deserves a chance.

Conduct disordered children are best treated in a therapeutic foster home. It's sad that this child's crimes were so horrific, that isn't possible. Secured facilities like the one he'll be in....not so great.........but he will be locked up and no danger to society while they try. Honestly, I feel rather bad for the other children housed there and what negative effect he may have on them .......considering much of his time will be spent in group therapy.
Click to expand...


Conduct disorder" refers to a group of behavioral and emotional problems in youngsters. Children and adolescents with this disorder have great difficulty following rules and behaving in a socially acceptable way. They are often viewed by other children, adults and social agencies as "bad" or delinquent, rather than mentally ill. Many factors may contribute to a child developing conduct disorder, including brain damage, child abuse, genetic vulnerability, school failure, and traumatic life experiences.

http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/conduct_disorder

Why does everyone want to blame the child. He is a product of his enviornment. He needs help and yet so many people want to just throw away the key for this child. I do not. I still believe that our children can be rehabilitated.
 
Chargergal said:
Neither of the two psychiatrists who EVALUATED him have TREATED him. There is a big difference between the two...
Click to expand...

I think they HAVE treated him.

"50-50, I don't know," Whiting said after Thursday's sentencing. "The psychiatrist who treated him and worked with him -- one of them is not very hopeful, the other one holds out some hope."

imo
 
Chargergal said:
Conduct disorder" refers to a group of behavioral and emotional problems in youngsters. Children and adolescents with this disorder have great difficulty following rules and behaving in a socially acceptable way. They are often viewed by other children, adults and social agencies as "bad" or delinquent, rather than mentally ill. Many factors may contribute to a child developing conduct disorder, including brain damage, child abuse, genetic vulnerability, school failure, and traumatic life experiences.

http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/conduct_disorder

Why does everyone want to blame the child. He is a product of his enviornment. He needs help and yet so many people want to just throw away the key for this child. I do not. I still believe that our children can be rehabilitated.
Click to expand...


BBM

He pulled the trigger...again and again and again...lured...repeat...repeat...repeat..............you get the idea. Who should I blame?

Product of his environment? Even the paragraph you posted and highlighted in RED doesn't make that claim...:waitasec:

I didn't see anyone anywhere saying to throw away the key. Please link me.
Everyone seems to be in total agreement the kid needs to be rehabilitated and desperately needs treatment. What we don't agree on...that it absolutely will be successful. Everyone here wants him to be rehabilitated!
 
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