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A few other things I forgot to add:

• I think he may have convinced his final two victims to leave their cell phones at home by telling them that they were going to a party attended by well-known people. This is one of the only plausible ways that someone might be persuaded not to bring her phone. (Can anyone think of any others?) The killer almost certainly exaggerates his VIP connections, but I think he has some and had proven it to his victims during previous encounters, perhaps by showing them photos.

• Jessica Taylor worked the streets in a bad neighborhood. She was not online as far as we know. So the LISK (assuming he is also the Manorville killer, which I think he is) was comfortable enough with that area to pick up JT and probably other prostitutes without seeming either memorable or suspicious.

These are two reasons why I think he has been both wealthy and down-at-the-heels, and can plausibly move between two very different worlds.
bbm
Hi Aleph,
Wow, you are so good at putting into words my very own thoughts! haha maybe he convinces them to leave their phones and dress casually because he's going to take them shopping...
I think back to AC's roommate (DS) who says he told Amber to take his phone, but she said "that's not what he wants", ...plus if you're a dude asking for a weekend date - you might say - I'll buy you whatever you need ..just come on girl...
 
A few other things I forgot to add:

• I think he may have convinced his final two victims to leave their cell phones at home by telling them that they were going to a party attended by well-known people. This is one of the only plausible ways that someone might be persuaded not to bring her phone. (Can anyone think of any others?) The killer almost certainly exaggerates his VIP connections, but I think he has some and had proven it to his victims during previous encounters, perhaps by showing them photos.

• Jessica Taylor worked the streets in a bad neighborhood. She was not online as far as we know. So the LISK (assuming he is also the Manorville killer, which I think he is) was comfortable enough with that area to pick up JT and probably other prostitutes without seeming either memorable or suspicious.

These are two reasons why I think he has been both wealthy and down-at-the-heels, and can plausibly move between two very different worlds.
bbm
Hi Aleph,
Wow, you are so good at putting into words my very own thoughts! haha maybe he convinces them to leave their phones and dress casually because he's going to take them shopping...
I think back to AC's roommate (DS) who says he told Amber to take his phone, but she said "that's not what he wants", ...plus if you're a dude asking for a weekend date - you might say - I'll buy you whatever you need ..just come on girl...

Yeah, because he was a repeat customer. He built up a rapport with these women and then he killed them when they were at their most vulnerable. Which explains why a lot of the bodies were naked. He waited until they undressed and then made his move, well not THAT move, but the other move as in murdering them. It's like other people have speculated, he doesn't kill every girl he comes across. This guy has to be caught, because prostitution isn't disappearing anytime soon. The police in NYC need to get some brunette undercover female officers down by the Port Authority ASAP in the hopes this guy rolls up on one of them with a proposition. Who knows, maybe they get lucky. I have no idea if they've used that tactic already, but they should. And to everyone that keeps calling the guy "brilliant", gimme a break. You can call him lots of things. Clever, elusive, careful, organized. Brilliant he isn't. Does anyone look back at Joel Rifkin today and think to themselves, "God, that guy is unbelievably intelligent. How did he ever manage to get caught?" Doubtful.
 
Thanks!

I think he probably is a smoker, but of the "Wow, I didn't know you smoked!" variety, as opposed to a chain smoker. Despite his brash personality, I don't think he would smoke when in fancier situations where it might be looked down upon. He tries to be a chameleon as he moves between these two different worlds.

IMO, he has a lot of quirks and habits that he hides in his "regular" day to day life. He gets satisfaction out of walking between the two worlds. It is a challenge that he enjoys. He delights in pulling the wool over other people's eyes. It is all about being sneaky and a feeling of being in control and powerful. When in reality, he is seen by others as weak and possibly even as a slimy weasel of a man.

He is the kind of guy who secretly does disgusting things around his house...and to other people's personal belongings.
 
Several of the family members noted that their sisters told them that their clients were "important" people, docs, lawyers, judges, LE, etc.
There is definitely something there re: the VIP angle.

I think that's a standard line that prostitutes tell their family members.

Most people like that would frequent high class escort services, not prostitutes off of Craigslist.
 
The VIP angle was one I have not been able to get past for a while myself. Someone too rich, with stuff to lose? A politic or a cop? Even if it was just a lie....

As someone else pointed out. If it comes to alot of $ and drugs...
 
The VIP angle was one I have not been able to get past for a while myself. Someone too rich, with stuff to lose? A politic or a cop? Even if it was just a lie....

As someone else pointed out. If it comes to alot of $ and drugs...


Speaking of politics, while I was thinking about the VIP angle I remembered something a friend told me.

This friend had the opportunity to attend a fundraiser where a former US Vice President was the keynote speaker. She was advised ahead of time Not to bring her cell phone due to security concerns.

Maybe the perp used a line like that?
 
Hey Man, I for one am all for respecting the victims. BUT IMHO it counterproductive to sit here and pretend(now I am quoting myself)....that "MP, JB, and SG were up late at JB's house working on a noble peace prize project" If we did not respect the victims we would not all be here trying to figure it out and help. Instead of having the attitude "they were just hookers" like alot of people do, we are spending our time and brainpower trying to help solve this case. They were all hookers, and they were all people who made some bad decisions. But the decisions they made did not deserve to have a death sentence attached to them. In the same breath, it is not good for us to sit here and try and make people out to be saints.

JMO
 
Hey Man, I for one am all for respecting the victims. BUT IMHO it counterproductive to sit here and pretend(now I am quoting myself)....that "MP, JB, and SG were up late at JB's house working on a noble peace prize project" If we did not respect the victims we would not all be here trying to figure it out and help. Instead of having the attitude "they were just hookers" like alot of people do, we are spending our time and brainpower trying to help solve this case. They were all hookers, and they were all people who made some bad decisions. But the decisions they made did not deserve to have a death sentence attached to them. In the same breath, it is not good for us to sit here and try and make people out to be saints.

JMO

I agree, dude. I really couldn't care less what their profession was. Sure it probably wasn't the best "life choice", but what they did for work didn't effect me in a negative fashion. So who am I to judge? I think once you look into some of these girls stories, like Jessica Taylor for example, you begin to feel sympathy more than anything else. After reading about her home life I definitely can understand why she chose to do what she did. It's just a really unfortunate situation all the way around. This guy needs to be caught to remind others like him that no life is too insignificant to take. There are plenty of ghosts on Long Island right now that deserve to not be forgotten, and to have justice done in their name. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
 
Whatever these women did for a living is irrelevant to me. Everyone has opinions and everyone has their own moral standards. One doesn't have to like or agree with the choices these women made in life in order to be outraged by their brutal murders. These were human beings first and foremost. Mothers...sisters...daughters...friends. They had a God given right to live out the rest of their lives and become whatever they would have become. The sick SOB who robbed these women of that God given right needs to answer for that. Plain and simple.

All MOO, of course.
 
Not one of us is a saint. We live in an extremely misogynistic culture and often that hatred of women is present in us without our necessarily being aware of it.

It's easy to forget how relatively easy it is for an uneducated, unskilled man to find good-paying work compared to a woman in a similar situation. The vast majority of prostitutes -- heck, a plurality of women are victims of abuse. Our own Shannan Gilbert walked around with a titanium plate in her jaw, courtesy of someone who claimed to love her. None of these victims had it easy even before they were brutally murdered. They were all innocent. All of them. I don't care who they had sex with, or how they got by in life. They were innocent people. Their souls are holy.

To quote someone much older than me, I hold these truths to be self-evident. I can't argue them with anyone. But I'm going to keep saying it, because in this sick culture of ours, it bears repeating.

My apologies to the rest of the choir for this preaching.
 
Not one of us is a saint. We live in an extremely misogynistic culture and often that hatred of women is present in us without our necessarily being aware of it.

It's easy to forget how relatively easy it is for an uneducated, unskilled man to find good-paying work compared to a woman in a similar situation. The vast majority of prostitutes -- heck, a plurality of women are victims of abuse. Our own Shannan Gilbert walked around with a titanium plate in her jaw, courtesy of someone who claimed to love her. None of these victims had it easy even before they were brutally murdered. They were all innocent. All of them. I don't care who they had sex with, or how they got by in life. They were innocent people. Their souls are holy.

To quote someone much older than me, I hold these truths to be self-evident. I can't argue them with anyone. But I'm going to keep saying it, because in this sick culture of ours, it bears repeating.

My apologies to the rest of the choir for this preaching.

I like that you said "our own Shannan..."
 
What a kind and thoughtful post Aleph. It is unfortunate that society looks down upon certain people and these women didn't get much attention from LE when they first went missing. It is the doctors, lawyers, and CEO type men that make appointment with escorts. What if one of them went missing???
 
I agree, dude. I really couldn't care less what their profession was. Sure it probably wasn't the best "life choice", but what they did for work didn't effect me in a negative fashion. So who am I to judge? I think once you look into some of these girls stories, like Jessica Taylor for example, you begin to feel sympathy more than anything else. After reading about her home life I definitely can understand why she chose to do what she did. It's just a really unfortunate situation all the way around. This guy needs to be caught to remind others like him that no life is too insignificant to take. There are plenty of ghosts on Long Island right now that deserve to not be forgotten, and to have justice done in their name. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

BBM

Do you have a link to the story that talks about her home life? I've been trying to learn more about her, and haven't been able to find anything.
 
BBM

Do you have a link to the story that talks about her home life? I've been trying to learn more about her, and haven't been able to find anything.

I'll look around and see if I can find anything for you, Marie. I used Taylor as an example after reading several articles that mentioned bits and pieces about her home life. It wasn't just one article that focused just on her.
 
I'll look around and see if I can find anything for you, Marie. I used Taylor as an example after reading several articles that mentioned bits and pieces about her home life. It wasn't just one article that focused just on her.

Thank you, CMan! I've been wondering about her life. She was very young, estranged from her family, and it sounded like she'd had a few run-ins with the police. There's something about her eyes in that photo that just breaks my heart.

None of these women deserved to be murdered. I don't care what they did for a living-they deserve justice, and it infuriates me that the killer or killers have still not been apprehended.
 
Going with my theory that the AC4 and Gilgo4 are victims of the same SK, I can't help but think that the #4 has meaning to the SK. In the Bible the #4 signifies "God setting things in order"

Revelations 7:1 "and after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

AC4 had their heads facing east towards Atlantic City, where they had all worked as prostitutes. Their shoes had been removed, which also holds a clue to the SK's profile.

The Gilgo4 were lined up very much like the AC4, their feet were facing east.

Two sets of victims in each disposed in a group of 4, all missing between 2006 & 2010
 
Going with my theory that the AC4 and Gilgo4 are victims of the same SK, I can't help but think that the #4 has meaning to the SK. In the Bible the #4 signifies "God setting things in order"

Revelations 7:1 "and after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

AC4 had their heads facing east towards Atlantic City, where they had all worked as prostitutes. Their shoes had been removed, which also holds a clue to the SK's profile.

The Gilgo4 were lined up very much like the AC4, their feet were facing east.

Two sets of victims in each disposed in a group of 4, all missing between 2006 & 2010

Very interesting BKS.

The 4th victim in the AC4 case was Kim Raffo, so according to your theorie Kim Raffo had a specific meaning to the killer right?

I would like to know your opinion on this information from a newsreport published Nov 26, 2006, 6 days after Kim raffo and the other 3 victims were found:


Nov 26, 2006 , 6 days after Kim Raffo and the other 3 murdervictims were found a newsreprort said:
that Kim Raffo's x-husband, Hugh Auslander, opened a black prayer book and read from Book of Psalms, Chapter 10



http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-1168361251.html

Publish date:
November 26, 2006

EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP - At the edge of an empty lot adjacent to the Golden Key Motel, Hugh Auslander struggled to light a single white candle nestled in an arrangement of fresh flowers.

The breeze kept blowing out the flame. Auslander, frustrated, finally gave up.

He knelt in front of a makeshift wooden cross that said "Kim," opened a black prayer book and read from the Book of Psalms, Chapter 10 - a prayer for the overthrow of the wicked.

When Auslander finished, he held up a photo for the throng of gathered media to photograph. It was from August 1996, when his estranged wife, Kim Raffo, 35, appeared to be a content mother of two and a member of the PTA, not a …



This are the words from where Hugh Auslander read:

Psalm 10 (New International Version, ©2011)

Psalm 10
Psalm 10[a]
1 Why, LORD, do you stand far off?
Why do you hide yourself in times of trouble?
2 In his arrogance the wicked man hunts down the weak,
who are caught in the schemes he devises.
3 He boasts about the cravings of his heart;
he blesses the greedy and reviles the LORD.
4 In his pride the wicked man does not seek him;
in all his thoughts there is no room for God.
5 His ways are always prosperous;
your laws are rejected by him;
he sneers at all his enemies.
6 He says to himself, “Nothing will ever shake me.”
He swears, “No one will ever do me harm.”

7 His mouth is full of lies and threats;
trouble and evil are under his tongue.
8 He lies in wait near the villages;
from ambush he murders the innocent.
His eyes watch in secret for his victims;
9 like a lion in cover he lies in wait.
He lies in wait to catch the helpless;
he catches the helpless and drags them off in his net.
10 His victims are crushed, they collapse;
they fall under his strength.
11 He says to himself, “God will never notice;
he covers his face and never sees.”

12 Arise, LORD! Lift up your hand, O God.
Do not forget the helpless.
13 Why does the wicked man revile God?
Why does he say to himself,
“He won’t call me to account”?
14 But you, God, see the trouble of the afflicted;
you consider their grief and take it in hand.
The victims commit themselves to you;
you are the helper of the fatherless.
15 Break the arm of the wicked man;
call the evildoer to account for his wickedness
that would not otherwise be found out.

16 The LORD is King for ever and ever;
the nations will perish from his land.
17 You, LORD, hear the desire of the afflicted;
you encourage them, and you listen to their cry,
18 defending the fatherless and the oppressed,
so that mere earthly mortals
will never again strike terror.
 
Very interesting BKS.

The 4th victim in the AC4 case was Kim Raffo, so according to your theorie Kim Raffo had a specific meaning to the killer right?

I would like to know your opinion on this information from a newsreport published Nov 26, 2006, 6 days after Kim raffo and the other 3 victims were found:


Nov 26, 2006 , 6 days after Kim Raffo and the other 3 murdervictims were found a newsreprort said:
that Kim Raffo's x-husband, Hugh Auslander, opened a black prayer book and read from Book of Psalms, Chapter 10



http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-1168361251.html

Publish date:
November 26, 2006

EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP - At the edge of an empty lot adjacent to the Golden Key Motel, Hugh Auslander struggled to light a single white candle nestled in an arrangement of fresh flowers.

The breeze kept blowing out the flame. Auslander, frustrated, finally gave up.

He knelt in front of a makeshift wooden cross that said "Kim," opened a black prayer book and read from the Book of Psalms, Chapter 10 - a prayer for the overthrow of the wicked.

When Auslander finished, he held up a photo for the throng of gathered media to photograph. It was from August 1996, when his estranged wife, Kim Raffo, 35, appeared to be a content mother of two and a member of the PTA, not a …



This are the words from where Hugh Auslander read:

Psalm 10 (New International Version, ©2011)

Psalm 10
Psalm 10[a]
1 Why, LORD, do you stand far off?
Why do you hide yourself in times of trouble?
2 In his arrogance the wicked man hunts down the weak,
who are caught in the schemes he devises.
3 He boasts about the cravings of his heart;
he blesses the greedy and reviles the LORD.
4 In his pride the wicked man does not seek him;
in all his thoughts there is no room for God.
5 His ways are always prosperous;
your laws are rejected by him;
he sneers at all his enemies.
6 He says to himself, “Nothing will ever shake me.”
He swears, “No one will ever do me harm.”

7 His mouth is full of lies and threats;
trouble and evil are under his tongue.
8 He lies in wait near the villages;
from ambush he murders the innocent.
His eyes watch in secret for his victims;
9 like a lion in cover he lies in wait.
He lies in wait to catch the helpless;
he catches the helpless and drags them off in his net.
10 His victims are crushed, they collapse;
they fall under his strength.
11 He says to himself, “God will never notice;
he covers his face and never sees.”

12 Arise, LORD! Lift up your hand, O God.
Do not forget the helpless.
13 Why does the wicked man revile God?
Why does he say to himself,
“He won’t call me to account”?
14 But you, God, see the trouble of the afflicted;
you consider their grief and take it in hand.
The victims commit themselves to you;
you are the helper of the fatherless.
15 Break the arm of the wicked man;
call the evildoer to account for his wickedness
that would not otherwise be found out.

16 The LORD is King for ever and ever;
the nations will perish from his land.
17 You, LORD, hear the desire of the afflicted;
you encourage them, and you listen to their cry,
18 defending the fatherless and the oppressed,
so that mere earthly mortals
will never again strike terror.


That's an odd thing to read, IMO. Usually people read things about being comforted during difficult times, about things being God's will, and about the kingdom of heaven. This is a very weird thing to read at a memorial service.

There was a comment that he made in one of the other articles that have been posted where he said that he had to go to AC (not during the time Kim was murdered, but years before) to "take care of some business". Has he ever elaborated on exactly what business he was taking care of? Did he ever have girlfriends during the times when he and Kim were separated? We know that Kim had a boyfriend or two, but there's never been any mention of him having girlfriends. It just seems odd to me that he was so willing all the time to keep on getting back together with her. I know that she was an addict, and that we're not talking about rational thinking here, but still. Either he's trying for sainthood, or he's leaving out some things about his lifestyle.

I know that these people have lived hard lives and have faced some truly terrible demons, but the inconsistencies are piling up in his statements. Did he ever get his children back?
 
That's an odd thing to read, IMO. Usually people read things about being comforted during difficult times, about things being God's will, and about the kingdom of heaven. This is a very weird thing to read at a memorial service.

There was a comment that he made in one of the other articles that have been posted where he said that he had to go to AC (not during the time Kim was murdered, but years before) to "take care of some business". Has he ever elaborated on exactly what business he was taking care of? Did he ever have girlfriends during the times when he and Kim were separated? We know that Kim had a boyfriend or two, but there's never been any mention of him having girlfriends. It just seems odd to me that he was so willing all the time to keep on getting back together with her. I know that she was an addict, and that we're not talking about rational thinking here, but still. Either he's trying for sainthood, or he's leaving out some things about his lifestyle.

I know that these people have lived hard lives and have faced some truly terrible demons, but the inconsistencies are piling up in his statements. Did he ever get his children back?

I agree fully on the bible reading, very odd indeed.

Concerning the "take care of some business" I´m not sure exactly what article you read that in, if you can please find it and I´ll see in my files if I have an answer to that.

HA a Gilrfriend? a steady girlfriend? , no not that I know of.

Concerning; "Either he's trying for sainthood, or he's leaving out some things about his lifestyle. " I think he is leaving somthing out!

No he never got his children back.
 
Mange Tak, the Foreigner (I know just a few words in Danish)! I'm going to try to find the article that had the quote about "taking care of business."

We do know that Tracy from AC and Melissa from GB were exotic dancers at one time. Do we know if any of the other victims worked as dancers? Someone in one of the other threads mentioned strip clubs. This is an angle that should be considered. It is possible that the killer met some of the victims through a club.

In the meantime, I'm going to try to find the quote about the business in AC.
 
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