CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

Woodland said:

Seems to me amron is making a comparison rather than introducing new characters?

I like your latest scenario roseofsharon and quite agree it falls into a money motive, but in addition I see that a possible extension was refused long before Christmas - just carried out then with the thought she would be forgotten in the short term.

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Yes, comparison is correct.

No_Stone_Unturned said:

To amron:

Regarding your theory about borrowing/lending money as a motive for murder, I have a question:

Do you mean that AG owed money to the killer or are you proposing that the killer owed money to AG? Therefore, when the killer was unable to pay up (perhaps AG wanted to purchase more things for her home like the convection oven) he decided to end the situation once and for all.

Kindly explain your theory when you have a moment.

:tyou:

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The killer was insulted/angry to be expected to repay and tired of being dominated in this companion relationship when it was always just about the money. The killer finally realized he was not in the Will and never would be.

I've been thinking about the total simplicity of the will. It's been my observation that most peeps in middle age give their wills LOTS of thought.

If you were a single lady with some means and your only beneficiary had means of their own (me assumes since LV belonged to the country club had a job etc) wouldn't you want to have your funds maybe set up something to help students further their education? or have something set up for rescue animals or training guide dogs or any other of an unlimited number of things?

Also, if you were already a lady with some means and you got plunked with $450,000 wouldn't you set up somethiing in memory of your friend to help kids further their educations etc etc???

Just sayin

No_Stone_Unturned said:

Quoted from roseofsharon:

IMO, to relay such a story is not flattering to the victim in any way -- "She was so excited, it was her big night". So PK and AG went out at night to do this?


I know what you mean! It sounds like a Grade Nine girl bragging about having done something risque with the high school football star!

:twocents:

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I am thinking there was a little more to this relationship than meets the eye. AG could have had expectations and the killer had to play along to gain financially. "She was so excited, it was her big night" speaks volumes.

amron said:

I am thinking there was a little more to this relationship than meets the eye. AG could have had expectations and the killer had to play along to gain financially. "She was so excited, it was her big night" speaks volumes.

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Yes, it does speak volumes! And it takes me back to the mindset of someone who is very "young and close", someone who wanted to play the big guy on campus type of thing.

If AG paid for someone's extremely expensive higher education, I would think that person would be very grateful and not expect anything to be left to him in the Will. If AG did in fact help with the University payments, that would/should have been enough to satisfy someone regarding finances. That's merely my way of thinking. To kill such a kind-hearted lady almost makes this crime even worse than it already is.

I'm wondering if the killer and AG had more than a financial/friendship/companion type of relationship. Was it sexual in any way, hence the "sexual component" used in the overkill?

:twocents:

Building on this theory of education costs, here's a list of various tuition costs in Ontario:

LINK - http://www.canadian-universities.net/Campus/Tuition-Fees-Ontario.html

According to LV, the bank statements were missing. This could fit with the financial motive (i.e. numerous transactions including transfer of funds). Am wondering about repayment of loans, specifically student loans.

To rose .. I am on the west coast and a nighthawk, so downeasters will frequently see me on the board very late at night/early morning, catching up, reading and/or posting in numerous threads.

No_Stone_Unturned said:

Yes, it does speak volumes! And it takes me back to the mindset of someone who is very "young and close", someone who wanted to play the big guy on campus type of thing.

If AG paid for someone's extremely expensive higher education, I would think that person would be very grateful and not expect anything to be left to him in the Will. If AG did in fact help with the University payments, that would/should have been enough to satisfy someone regarding finances. That's merely my way of thinking. To kill such a kind-hearted lady almost makes this crime even worse than it already is.

I'm wondering if the killer and AG had more than a financial/friendship/companion type of relationship. Was it sexual in any way, hence the "sexual component" used in the overkill?



:twocents:

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I feel this is a possibility, as a woman in my sixties I can tell you romance "etc." is still very important. I am certain AG was young at heart, her enthusiasm for fast cars for example. I am wondering why the dogs had to be locked up at times, when they actually knew PK. I know dogs will react if the owner is touched, even with a friendly hug

Wow, I missed that LV said bank statements were missing. This might give her an 'out' with her declaration that AG had a total worth of $50K aside from her house, however missing means take the death certificate to the bank (they are not handed out easily) and retrieve copies. Jmo.

I very much agree LilyMacBloom that not much thought went into the Will of a then 70 year-old educated woman, and less thought after the fact. Invested wisely with an annual grant to a student in need would have been an enormous and everlasting act of kindness.

I have wondered from time to time how well LV and PK actually knew each other.

Woodland said:

Wow, I missed that LV said bank statements were missing. This might give her an 'out' with her declaration that AG had a total worth of $50K aside from her house, however missing means take the death certificate to the bank (they are not handed out easily) and retrieve copies. Jmo.

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You aren't alone as I also missed that one.

Quoted from Woodland:

I have wondered from time to time how well LV and PK actually knew each other.


And I've also wondered whether they "knew" each other at all! Maybe it was merely a case of AG saying something like - Oh, that's my handyman out there mowing the lawn. We can talk quietly here.

:twocents:

A couple of thoughts upon rereading this article.Does this mean DLS is one of the few people (other than LE) who know what AG's injuries were and did he share that info? On a French news site I spotted yesterday (but chose not to post)the number of stab wounds AG received was revealed......
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave
"They showed David some pictures from the crime scene — also a common tactic. Look at this — see this? See what was done to Audrey?"



Also, one would think that a detailed person like AG would have first checked out if it was legal to have her remains buried in a dog cemetery before including that in a will.

"Lynne handled all the arrangements. She could not fulfil Audrey's request to bury her ashes in the pet cemetery beside two of her previous German shepherds — that is illegal in Ontario. Friends said the ashes were sprinkled on the golf course in Brantford instead."

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/newsreleases/pdfs/22598.pdf
On Tuesday, January 17, 2012, at 12:19 a.m., police responded to a call for a
break−and−enter at a home in the Runnymede Road/Bloor Street West area.
It is alleged that:
− the suspect broke into a home, armed with a knife and hammer
− two women were home at the time, a 64−year−old woman and her 89−year−old mother
− the suspect slashed the 64−year−old woman in the arm with the knife
− the suspect then demanded money from the homeowners
− the suspect fled the scene with a quantity of money
During the robbery, the mother became ill and was later taken to hospital.
The daughter was taken to hospital with non−life−threatening injuries.
Slavoljub Petrovic, 53, also known as Louie, of no fixed address, is wanted for:
1) Robbery
2) Aggravated assault
3) Weapons Dangerous
4) Forcible Confinement
He is considered dangerous.
Anyone with information is asked to contact police at 416−808−7350, Crime Stoppers

sillybilly said:

According to LV, the bank statements were missing. This could fit with the financial motive (i.e. numerous transactions including transfer of funds). Am wondering about repayment of loans, specifically student loans.

To rose .. I am on the west coast and a nighthawk, so downeasters will frequently see me on the board very late at night/early morning, catching up, reading and/or posting in numerous threads.

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Hi there Silly ... please let me clarify -- I meant I see names that I have never seen before once in awhile and usually late -- but you are one of the gang here !!!!:seeya:

Getting back to the relationship between PK and AG and considering the very busy schedule PK must have had at the beginning of the friendship, exactly how close could they have become during a four year period, other than helping with gardening and odd jobs around the home. It is not as though PK lived with AG! Four years is not a long time.

Apparently, AG, who often went to WP in Ancaster, where PK worked part-time, inquired one day if anyone was interested in being her home handyman. PK accepted the position.

I am wondering if PK accepted the position on the spot, or did he tell AG he would think about it!!:twocents:

And again, how on earth did he ever find the time for this whilst working on his Masters, which imo would be all consuming, along with his courtship with AT, attending church, working part-time at WP, etc.

imo

Just a reminder that it is not stated in Audrey's Will that she wanted her remains buried in the pet cemetery where her previous pets are buried. Nothing regarding her remains are in the Will.

If no one minds and before Wiki has a 'blackout", I just wanted to post this bit from an episode of the tv show,"Twin Peaks"...

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Twin_Peaks

"James Hurley: It's not really a place its a feeling. Sometimes riding at night, I punch off the headlights and roll the throttle in just rocket blind into the dark.
[edit] Episode Nineteen [2.12]
Log Lady: [voiceover] Is a dog man's best friend? I had a dog. The dog was large. It ate my garden, all the plants, and much earth. The dog ate so much earth it died. Its body went back to the earth. I have a memory of this dog. The memory is all that I have left of my dog. He was black — and white.
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[Dale Cooper and a real-estate agent arrive at a decrepit-looking house that Cooper is interested in buying] Real-estate agent: Well, it's still standing, almost by force of habit. Dale Cooper: A little habit can provide a strong foundation.
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[Agent Bryson asks admiringly after the departing Audrey Horne.] Dale Cooper: Denise, I would assume you're no longer interested in girls. Denise Bryson: Coop, I may be wearing a dress, but I still pull my panties on one leg at a time if you know what I mean. Dale Cooper: Not really.
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Colonel Riley: Garland Briggs is the best pilot I've ever known. He was born with hardware most of us only dream of having. He's been walking point on this operation for three years, carrying a full pack. I'll tell you this: his disappearance has implications that go so far beyond national security the cold war seems like a case of the sniffles."

Hey dotr, I've often thought of "Twin Peaks" during the search for Audrey's killer. In the series, it was a very small town and in the end we learned that someone close killed Laura Palmer - her father.

Back to AG's killer, we know that LE and others have said:
- she KNEW her killer
- the killing was GRUESOME (which one person denied)
- there was NO FORCED ENTRY
- the dogs were quiet for some reason
- a local 'obvious' person was arrested and released

I now suspect that the killer KNEW that DLS would be immediately picked up and charged because, as I've said very often, God forbid anyone should be a tad different!

Did PK know of DLS?
How many times had DLS crossed paths with PK?
Did Mrs. PK know of DLS?
Did AG know of DLS and know that he was safe to have around?
How well did LV know (or know about) PK?
Was money a factor in obtaining a good photographer for PK's wedding?
Did AG pay for the photographer?

Finally, a question for the person who wrote "PK met AG at WP". I'm sorry, but I don't know what WP is! Kindly explain. Thanks.........

:twocents:

Woodland said:

Just a reminder that it is not stated in Audrey's Will that she wanted her remains buried in the pet cemetery where her previous pets are buried. Nothing regarding her remains are in the Will.

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I don't find that too odd. LV knew AG's wishes about where she wanted to be buried. My husband knows where I want to be buried and we don't have that in our Will. Not yet, anyway!

But what I do find odd/interesting is that 'items were missing' from AG's home. It would be helpful to know what those things are and where the killer located them.

:twocents: