Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #13 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

houndstooth said:

The Sheriff herself has said at or near the door to the home.
Therefore, you could think of the end of the driveway as being where it ends as you enter the compound, not as you leave.

Make sense?

It being a circular driveway notwithstanding. It is not as if Sierra walked the circle to leave or enter the property.
She would enter and leave up the shortest route of the driveway.

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If the dogs tracked her scent to the end of this driveway, do they know that she even made it that far? If she went there each day to get on the bus, could the scent be from a previous day? Of do they know it was her on Friday?

So far I have read here, or in the MSM;

She took a picture of herself before she left
She used an inhaler, but left it home? or it wasn't with her purse that was found, but her books and some cloths were in the purse.
Her phone was thrown out of a car
She always took the charger, but this day it was left behind.
The cloths neatly folded could have been what she had on when she left the house, but yet the shoes or stockings, if any, where not found.
It doesn't appear as she ran away. I assume nothing was missing from her room that would indicate that.
She didn't say she was spending the night with a friend so the cloths in the purse wouldn't be for that, if they are not what she was wearing.
LE didn't say if there were other items in the purse, like house keys, makeup, comb or brush, or a toothbrush, but only the cloths were mentioned.

So as I type this out, if the person was a stranger, why did they let her leave the home with this purse and phone and extra cloths (if they were extra), but prevented her from getting the charger or inhaler? If it was someone known to her, I still don't know why she was not just forced out of the home without her purse and books? I am just not getting the right picture of all of this.

Maybe she didn't leave the house with shoes. She could have let someone in, and things went bad. She may not have had shoes on, and was taken out without them and they just grabed her belongings to make someone thinks she went to school, but never thought to take the inhaler or the charger.

Bern said:

If the dogs tracked her scent to the end of this driveway, do they know that she even made it that far? If she went there each day to get on the bus, could the scent be from a previous day? Of do they know it was her on Friday?

So far I have read here, or in the MSM;

She took a picture of herself before she left
She used an inhaler, but left it home? or it wasn't with her purse that was found, but her books and some cloths were in the purse.
Her phone was thrown out of a car
She always took the charger, but this day it was left behind.
The cloths neatly folded could have been what she had on when she left the house, but yet the shoes or stockings, if any, where not found.
It doesn't appear as she ran away. I assume nothing was missing from her room that would indicate that.
She didn't say she was spending the night with a friend so the cloths in the purse wouldn't be for that, if they are not what she was wearing.
LE didn't say if there were other items in the purse, like house keys, makeup, comb or brush, or a toothbrush, but only the cloths were mentioned.

So as I type this out, if the person was a stranger, why did they let her leave the home with this purse and phone and extra cloths (if they were extra), but prevented her from getting the charger or inhaler? If it was someone known to her, I still don't know why she was not just forced out of the home without her purse and books? I am just not getting the right picture of all of this.

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I so hope LE knows by now if she left the house alone, under her own power, or not.

The only way I can see is if there are cameras or even one camera that should have shown Sierra at the end of her driveway, for example, but did not pick her up at all. Should have shown a car waiting there for her, but didn't.

Not having a photo of the front of the house handy, could she have been put into a car on the driveway and not have been seen by any neighbors or possible cameras? If, for instance, a familiar car was parked or idling at the end of the driveway, where her scent ended?

I just hope LE has more info, but I am fearful that is not the case.

JMO

Sjsleuth83 said:

4)You guys brought up the charger and inhaler, as if these items not being taken with her mean she was "interrupted" or forced to leave early
*Do we have any quotes to back that up?
(I could see a lot of explanations here)
a)She doesn't take her charger to school, because her battery lasts long enough for her to make it home.
b)She doesn't take her inhaler to school all the time, but her mother thinks she does.
c)Whoever took her, kept the inhaler on them, either as a trophy, or because SL was still alive, and they thought she might need it. (Was her inhaler LEFT at home, or was it just not found in her bag)

Id like to know more about what makes everyone believe these items should have been with her.

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I would like to know why this is being considered a given also. Marlene said Sierra took the items every day but maybe she didn't. Maybe she was supposed to, so Marlene just assumed she did. Not an unreasonable assumption at all for a parent. But for many people asthma is seasonal, meaning it flares more at specific times of year or in specific weather conditions or depending on exercise and physical activity. Those people usually take their inhalers only on days when they know they will need them and leave them behind all other days. I used to do that, back when I had more good days than bad.

The idea that Sierra would never leave home without her inhaler is lost on me because there is no way to know for sure what Sierra might have taken with her each day. And if her asthma was severe enough to need an inhaler daily she would have had more than one inhaler at a time. I find it highly unlikely that she had an expensive phone, computer, handbag if they could not afford to supply her with two (or even 3 or 4) inhalers.

She could also have had a second charger for her phone. For all we know, Sierra left home that day with clothing in the Juicy bag and another bag or purse for personal items like inhaler, hairbrush, makeup, money, bus pass.

MOO.

Bern said:

There was on case I followed and the child was taken from her bed, but the home was "staged" to make sure LE would think it was a kidnapping and not a murder or accident and the body was hidden. The person propped the door open with a "brick". Later the story changed and if the next story was true, there was no need to prop open a door with a brick because the situation now changed to more than one person being involved. No need to prop open a door to carry out a child if someone can hold the door for you.

My point is, people think they have to convince others what happened sometimes and it may convince the lay person, but to LE it is overkill. I am not saying that is what happened here, just trying to see how this played out, by stepping into the victims shoes and acting out her steps that morning.

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What was the case?

eileenhawkeye said:

What was the case?

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I am guessing Haleigh Cummings...JMO

As far as what Sierra took with her every day...how would her mom even know? She left before Sierra, came home after her, I believe...

Bern said:

so now I am thinking about this case..... Where do the kids plug in the charger if they are at school? I have one, and the only time I take it with me, other than a long trip, is out to my car if I think I will need it if I am out for awhile or because the battery is low. So if you are taking a bus, and going to school, where are you charging up the IPhone and does it take time to recharge, if so, Where are you doing this?

If the kidnapping started at the house and not at the end of the driveway, not taking the charger or inhaler would be a clue that is where it started. Because picture her getting ready for school, you get things packed into the purse or whatever to take for your day. If you take your charger everyday as stated, and your inhaler, then you are doing this inside the home, and then you take off and go to the bus stop. So it shouldn't be in the home if she was taken at the bus stop because she would have packed it prior to that point. Now if the stuff is left behind, then you could say she was interrupted and didn't get a chance to take those things, but did she ALWAYS take them? The charger is no good if you can't plug it in and recharge where you are at, and if she has more than one inhaler or doesn't ALWAYS take it, then those items being left behind are not an indication that they shouldn't be left behind. She may have left them because she didn't need them that day.

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I can charge my iphone by plugging it into my computer.

Or, if a student is at a desk near the wall it's possible she would be near an outlet where she could plug it in there. But since phone use is typically not okay at school, I would assume she is bringing it to school in case she decides to go somewhere after school and needs it later.

amymarie said:

I can charge my iphone by plugging it into my computer.

Or, if a student is at a desk near the wall it's possible she would be near an outlet where she could plug it in there. But since phone use is typically not okay at school, I would assume she is bringing it to school in case she decides to go somewhere after school and needs it later.

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A lot of kids take phones to school. I am not sure how many also bring their chargers but I think it is safe to assume some do. It would be easy enough to find a place to plug a phone in....not in the classroom but maybe in the library or cafeteria or other common area. At least enough of a charge to handle whatever task they wanted of their phone. OTOH, there are probably a lot of kids who do not take their chargers to school on a typical day.

I think the ony way Marlene would know for certain what Sierra usually took with her would be if she saw Sierra packing her bag for school on a regular basis. And that doesn't seem likely because she was not home in the mornings when Sierra got ready for school. Even if Sierra usually packed her bag the evening before most likely what she packed would go unnoticed by anyone in the household, IMO.

krkrjx said:

I would like to know why this is being considered a given also. Marlene said Sierra took the items every day but maybe she didn't. Maybe she was supposed to, so Marlene just assumed she did. Not an unreasonable assumption at all for a parent. But for many people asthma is seasonal, meaning it flares more at specific times of year or in specific weather conditions or depending on exercise and physical activity. Those people usually take their inhalers only on days when they know they will need them and leave them behind all other days. I used to do that, back when I had more good days than bad.

The idea that Sierra would never leave home without her inhaler is lost on me because there is no way to know for sure what Sierra might have taken with her each day. And if her asthma was severe enough to need an inhaler daily she would have had more than one inhaler at a time. I find it highly unlikely that she had an expensive phone, computer, handbag if they could not afford to supply her with two (or even 3 or 4) inhalers.

She could also have had a second charger for her phone. For all we know, Sierra left home that day with clothing in the Juicy bag and another bag or purse for personal items like inhaler, hairbrush, makeup, money, bus pass.

MOO.

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Another thing maybe someone can clarify. For a minor in highschool, isn't an inhaler considered a prescription drug? So would it be likely that she would take it with her each day to school? Or would the school nurse's office just keep it for her in case she needed it?

Either way, I think we have a lack of FACT to really determine anything from this (unless someone can supply reliable quotes).

We dont know if her inhaler was missing from home, but NOT in the bag, or whether it was never placed in the bag, and perhaps sitting on her counter at home.

And even still, it is possible she forgot it that day, or doesn't normally bring it and her mom thinks she does.

As for the charger, im not sure. I dont know what the cell phone policies are in schools now, so im not sure if they are aloud to have them out in the open charging. If not, then I see no reason to bring the charger.

I work a full-time job and am away from home for 8-10 hours a day, and my charger sits at home plugged into the wall.

Sjsleuth83 said:

Another thing maybe someone can clarify. For a minor in highschool, isn't an inhaler considered a prescription drug? So would it be likely that she would take it with her each day to school? Or would the school nurse's office just keep it for her in case she needed it?

Either way, I think we have a lack of FACT to really determine anything from this (unless someone can supply reliable quotes).

We dont know if her inhaler was missing from home, but NOT in the bag, or whether it was never placed in the bag, and perhaps sitting on her counter at home.

And even still, it is possible she forgot it that day, or doesn't normally bring it and her mom thinks she does.

As for the charger, im not sure. I dont know what the cell phone policies are in schools now, so im not sure if they are aloud to have them out in the open charging. If not, then I see no reason to bring the charger.

I work a full-time job and am away from home for 8-10 hours a day, and my charger sits at home plugged into the wall.

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A rescue inhaler is a prescription drug but I do not think it would be feasible for a student's inhaler to be kept in a nurse's office. I believe a rescue inhaler would be allowed to remain in a student's possession. I could be wrong about that, of course, but it seems unreasonable to me to keep an asthmatic separated from a medication that could potentially save their life.

krkrjx said:

A rescue inhaler is a prescription drug but I do not think it would be feasible for a student's inhaler to be kept in a nurse's office. I believe a rescue inhaler would be allowed to remain in a student's possession. I could be wrong about that, of course, but it seems unreasonable to me to keep an asthmatic separated from a medication that could potentially save their life.

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I know that a school in FL did it that way, had to be kept in the nurses office and a second one for home.

eileenhawkeye said:

What was the case?

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yes, Haliegh Cummings.

Sjsleuth83 said:

Another thing maybe someone can clarify. For a minor in highschool, isn't an inhaler considered a prescription drug? So would it be likely that she would take it with her each day to school? Or would the school nurse's office just keep it for her in case she needed it?

Either way, I think we have a lack of FACT to really determine anything from this (unless someone can supply reliable quotes).

We dont know if her inhaler was missing from home, but NOT in the bag, or whether it was never placed in the bag, and perhaps sitting on her counter at home.

And even still, it is possible she forgot it that day, or doesn't normally bring it and her mom thinks she does.

As for the charger, im not sure. I dont know what the cell phone policies are in schools now, so im not sure if they are aloud to have them out in the open charging. If not, then I see no reason to bring the charger.

I work a full-time job and am away from home for 8-10 hours a day, and my charger sits at home plugged into the wall.

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In thinking back about the parents' statements about the inhaler and phone charger, I wonder if they really meant she would have taken either or both with her every day. Meaning, maybe they were referring to if she had run away she would have taken them.

For the most part a phone would not need to be charged during a typical school day...except some apps use would use up the battery power much faster than when the phone is used just for calls or texts.

Astrella613 said:

I know that a school in FL did it that way, had to be kept in the nurses office and a second one for home.

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Oh I'm sure some schools do it that way, but an asthma rescue inhaler has no set dosage time. It is used as needed and when it is needed, it is needed ASAP. It can be a life-threatening situation--needing the inhaler and not having it readily available.

You were not allowed cell phones at my high school (and I graduated in 2007). Regardless I still was able to use and charge my phone during class. I would put my phone in my bag, connect the charger and have it come out the zipper, then slump the bag against the socket. Many of mourners were able to charge their cell phones this way throughout the entire school. Hallways, bathrooms,.the library and even the cafeteria.

In the earliest days of the case, Marlene did not know what was in the bag that was found but she had immediately noticed that Sierra didn't have her inhaler. This leads me to believe Marlene saw it at the home on March 16.

I'm one who thinks Sierra was interrupted at or around leaving because there was a response to the text she sent her school mate at 7:11 a.m. and Sierra did not make any reply according to that friend, who seemingly expected one.

AlexLouise44 said:

You were not allowed cell phones at my high school (and I graduated in 2007). Regardless I still was able to use and charge my phone during class. I would put my phone in my bag, connect the charger and have it come out the zipper, then slump the bag against the socket. Many of mourners were able to charge their cell phones this way throughout the entire school. Hallways, bathrooms,.the library and even the cafeteria.

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OH MY GOSH. The typo's my phone creates. To clarify it is not mourners but peers were able to charge their phones. The amount of texting, myspacing and facebooking we did senior year was insane. Our phones probably hated the amount of times we had to re-charge throughout the day.

krkrjx said:

Oh I'm sure some schools do it that way, but an asthma rescue inhaler has no set dosage time. It is used as needed and when it is needed, it is needed ASAP. It can be a life-threatening situation--needing the inhaler and not having it readily available.

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I know but they were not allowed to carry it with them.

I also don't understand a kidnapper tossing things out as they go, but select things, and then LE is searching bodies of water. If you are going to hid the body by putting it in water, don't you want the other things hidden as well? If you are sending a message, yes you will be tossing things out to make sure LE knows you have her, and you are secure in the fact they can't be traced back to you, so you don't care these things are found, yet, you are disposing or hiding the victim. Another case I mentioned was Jennifer Odom. Same thing, missing from the end of her road or driveway but after school. The perp murdered her, but he left her body out to be found 6 days later. 2 yrs later her clarinet case with clarinet inside; along with her book bag and books were found discarded miles away from the body. The perp was not afraid that the body or the items would lead them to him. He was confident there was no ties to him and her. This case the perp leaves her items to be found, but not her body. That is why I think she knew this person well. They wanted LE to jump on the stranger at the bus stop, random kidnapping and left stuff strewn about to lead in that direction, but he hides the body well, because it will lead back to him. So even if they "think" it is him, without a body, they will have a hard time convicting him/her.

Tuba said:

In the earliest days of the case, Marlene did not know what was in the bag that was found but she had immediately noticed that Sierra didn't have her inhaler. This leads me to believe Marlene saw it at the home on March 16.

I'm one who thinks Sierra was interrupted at or around leaving because there was a response to the text she sent her school mate at 7:11 a.m. and Sierra did not make any reply according to that friend, who seemingly expected one.

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I am leaning this way also, that she was in the home, someone was there, or she let them in and it went down hill from there. No shoes means something for me. If she was attacked in the home, she may not have had shoes on, as she was getting ready at the time. She was in her room, getting ready, taking a photo and texting her friend, something happened in a very short time frame. I think the scent was from a previous day, not that day. A dog can't tell you how old the scent is, can they? So if she was all over the home, she could have been taken out the front door into a car just outside, or even another door of the home.

Astrella613 said:

I know but they were not allowed to carry it with them.

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OK, and maybe Sierra's school has the policy about inhalers having to be left with the nurse's office. But if so, it only means she wouldn't need to pack her "home" inhaler for each school day. The fact that her inhaler was found in the home might mean that Marlene felt that if Sierra were planning an overnight or had run away, she would have taken items that were in fact found left behind in the home. It doesn't necessarily mean she would not leave for school without these items.

It sounded to me like Marlene was trying to say she was sure her daughter had not run away and was not planning an overnight stay away from home given she had not taken her inhaler and phone charger.