NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

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Make of this what you will, but here is a small excerpt from an article done in 2006 by the Concord Monitor that I believe to be credible. I had never heard this piece of info before:


"The last time Carpenter saw her sister was Christmas 2004. She spoke with her on the phone the night before she disappeared. Murray told Carpenter she had gotten in a fight with her boyfriend but she did not mention anything about going away".
 
Also after hearing one of the private investigators going over case notes in a recent interview, He made the distinction that they know Maura was headed east (On foot) after the accident because of the search dogs tracing.

While that is not neccessarily news, that has been reported several times, the investigator also noted that because of where the accident took place and the time of the year it was, that the search dogs were only going to be able to track anyone's scent for approximately 100 yards because of gusty winds etc.. So the fact the dogs lost Maura's scent 100-yards down the road doesn't really prove much (Like that she hopped into a vehicle).
 
Make of this what you will, but here is a small excerpt from an article done in 2006 by the Concord Monitor that I believe to be credible. I had never heard this piece of info before:


"The last time Carpenter saw her sister was Christmas 2004. She spoke with her on the phone the night before she disappeared. Murray told Carpenter she had gotten in a fight with her boyfriend but she did not mention anything about going away".

Do you have a link?
I recall from yet another article(cant recall which, but will search later after work) that her sister said she was complaining to Maura about her own fiance. So perhaps there is a mis-report somewhere...or perhaps BOTH conversations took place, one leading to the other...seems like a natural progression....
 
Because I am no expert and have no experience with airbags, I will defer to those who are more familiar.

By all reports, the airbags deployed. Would this not have kept Maura from hitting and cracking the windshield? Just wondering if the windshield damage may have happened at an earlier time.

Also, how long before the airbags deflate?
 
Because I am no expert and have no experience with airbags, I will defer to those who are more familiar.

By all reports, the airbags deployed. Would this not have kept Maura from hitting and cracking the windshield? Just wondering if the windshield damage may have happened at an earlier time.

Also, how long before the airbags deflate?

BBM

They deflate rather rapidly - IIRC in seconds from I've seen mentioned on the web - (Google search airbag deflation time saturn)...
Much was made of the deflation time on another board where it was questioned how the SBD could have seen MM behind an inflated airbag since they deflate so quickly....
 
Do you have a link?
I recall from yet another article(cant recall which, but will search later after work) that her sister said she was complaining to Maura about her own fiance. So perhaps there is a mis-report somewhere...or perhaps BOTH conversations took place, one leading to the other...seems like a natural progression....

The article in question is below. This would have to be an awfully big error if this reporter confused the two sister's phone converstation that took place the Thursday night before Maura went missing with the one stated in the article that took place the Sunday night before Maura went missing.

"When 21-year-old Maura Murray disappeared from a mountain road in New Hampshire on a February night in 2004, her father believed from the start she was kidnapped. Nearly three years later, just finding her body is the last hope Maura's father, Fred Murray, and his family still cling to, even if it means confirming she is dead.

"I want to make sure I do everything I can possibly do," Fred Murray said yesterday alongside Route 112, while dogs trained to find human remains searched for her nearby. "I don't want to leave any avenue unexplored. I owe it to my daughter."

Fred Murray and a half dozen family members gathered in Haverhill yesterday for yet another search of the area where the girl's empty car was found after the accident. Maura Murray was driving on Rt. 112 near the western edge of the White Mountains on Feb. 9, 2004, when she apparently lost control of her car and plowed into a snow bank. The junior nursing student from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst was never seen again.

Family members do not know where she was going or what happened, only that they don't believe she would ever run away without contacting anyone. They believe she was abducted and most likely killed. The police have searched the area repeatedly since then, but say they have no evidence of foul play. The case's status has never been upgraded from a missing persons search.

Now, a group of private investigators from Massachusetts and New Hampshire have agreed to work for free to help the family find Murray. They enlisted the help of four search dogs from the Connecticut Canine Search and Rescue team to scour the woods beside the highway yesterday and today. The Molly Bish Foundation, a nonprofit set up by the parents of a Massachusetts lifeguard who disappeared, has also helped with funding.

"We're really looking for a body, at this point. To say anything else would be to pull the wool over people's eyes," said Don Nason, a private investigator from Webster who is a member of the New Hampshire League of Investigators. His organization has roughly 10 people working on the case in Haverhill this weekend.

The dog teams searched a 5-mile radius around the crash site, focusing on six areas within that radius that he declined to name in more detail, Nason said. The team was only allowed to search on public property and where they had permission from private landowners, he said.

"We're looking for a needle in a haystack no matter how you look at it," Nason said, gesturing to the terrain that surrounded a former ski lodge in Haverhill that doubled as the base of operations for the search crew this weekend. The town - population 4,500 - is set in the heart of the mountains where thick forest is abundant and most of the roads are dirt. It's roughly 18 miles west of Lincoln along the same route that becomes the Kancamagus Highway to the east.

For family members who could do nothing but sit at the operations base yesterday and wait for word of a discovery, any news at all seemed better than the not-knowing they have been dealing with for close to three years.

"I feel like we're useless," said Kathleen Carpenter, Maura's older sister.

Back home at her mother's house in Massachusetts, the bedroom Carpenter and Murray shared growing up remains decorated with the sisters' things. At Christmas time, the family still puts presents under the tree for her, and on her birthday in May, they get together for a vigil, Carpenter said.

Carpenter said she no longer holds out hope that her sister is alive out there somewhere; the family's rituals are for their mother's sake. Their mother, who is sick with cancer, could not make the trek to New Hampshire yesterday.

The last time Carpenter saw her sister was Christmas 2004. She spoke with her on the phone the night before she disappeared. Murray told Carpenter she had gotten in a fight with her boyfriend but she did not mention anything about going away.

"In my heart, I do not believe she's alive," said Carpenter, 29. "She would never do this to the family. Something went wrong and there's a bad guy out there."

Authorities say Maura Murray withdrew $280 from an ATM the same day she disappeared and e-mailed professors saying she wouldn't be in class all week because of a family problem. Around 7 p.m. that evening, she crashed her car into a snow bank on Route 112 in Haverhill, several miles from the Vermont border. The police at the time described Murray as "endangered and possibly suicidal."

Family members have continuously denied that description. Carpenter describes her sister as her best friend, a good athlete, and someone who could make anyone laugh.

Distant relatives - several of whom said they had never even met Murray - gathered yesterday to wait and lend their support to searchers. Some of those family members, like Helena Murray, said finding Murray has become their quest too, even though they never knew her. Helena Murray, 60, is taking a sabbatical from her job in a law office after more than a year of working there full-time. She is now working full-time to help find Maura.

Helena Murray is married to Fred's second cousin. She didn't find out that Maura had disappeared until a week and a half after the incident. Now she acts as a spokeswoman of sorts for the family and keeps the find-Maura website going - checking it several times each day, deleting all the spam they receive and forwarding important tips and heart-wrenching messages to Fred.

"It's like you don't know how to feel," Helena said. "My hopes are obviously they'll find her, but I've been over that road. I don't think she could have made it."

For Murray's father, Fred, finding his daughter's remains has become an obsession. The idea of giving up before they find something is absurd to him.

"It never occurred to me. It's just what do you do next," he said.

From the beginning, he has felt that New Hampshire police have done a sloppy job on the investigation. As time has passed, he believes they have given up. He has since sued to get all of the police records from the night his daughter disappeared so he can continue conducting his own investigation. The courts have not ruled on his suit yet.

Murray sat at a table yesterday afternoon hashing out the possible events of that dark night again and again. He obsesses over details he has pieced together himself from conversations with dozens of investigators, psychics, neighbors and what little police have told him in hopes of discovering some long-overlooked but pivotal clue.

He talks in fitful sentences interrupted by brief spells of stuttering about the garbled visions of psychics he has consulted, the dead-end leads of police officers who have since retired, and the possibility that all of the clues are there among them but no one has been able to piece them together yet.

As of 3 p.m. yesterday, the latest search had turned up nothing. Nason said they would search until dusk both days.

Perhaps the closest the family has come to finding the remains of Maura was in a gravel pit about a year ago, Carpenter said.

Carpenter and her father were searching the gravel pit across the street from where Maura's car was found when Carpenter saw a tarp. When she got closure, there was a terrible odor and she saw bones sticking out of the dirt. But after hours of searching in the woods and the dirt in the area, she said she couldn't bring herself to lift the tarp. She ran screaming to her father and he lifted it, only to find it was the remains of a cow.

"You're thinking you want to find it but you don't want to see it at the same time," she said."

By LISA ARSENAULT

Monitor staff
 
Just a theory, not a fact
but I am starting to wonder that the night Maura's supervisor found her in a canatonic state at work and asked Maura what was wrong and Maura said "My sister" ... If Maura was really talking about her sister Kathleen or her other sister Julie. A lot is being made of the phone call Maura made that night to her sister Kathleen because that is all police, investigators and family have to go on as a possible source for Maura being upset (referring to her last known phone call) But in reality, Maura being upset in no way had to be because of a phone call. No one can link her to being on a phone right before she got upset, so therefore the whole phone call conversation between Maura and Kathleen that night that lasted 20 minutes (10-10:20 p.m.) could be meaningless.
 
Just a theory, not a fact
but I am starting to wonder that the night Maura's supervisor found her in a canatonic state at work and asked Maura what was wrong and Maura said "My sister" ... If Maura was really talking about her sister Kathleen or her other sister Julie. A lot is being made of the phone call Maura made that night to her sister Kathleen because that is all police, investigators and family have to go on as a possible source for Maura being upset (referring to her last known phone call) But in reality, Maura being upset in no way had to be because of a phone call. No one can link her to being on a phone right before she got upset, so therefore the whole phone call conversation between Maura and Kathleen that night that lasted 20 minutes (10-10:20 p.m.) could be meaningless.

I agree. She could have had things on her mind and it came out that evening.
 
BBM

They deflate rather rapidly - IIRC in seconds from I've seen mentioned on the web - (Google search airbag deflation time saturn)...
Much was made of the deflation time on another board where it was questioned how the SBD could have seen MM behind an inflated airbag since they deflate so quickly....

I've wondered if the airbags would stay inflated by the time she hit the snowbank. Since she had 2 impacts, would the bag stay inflated enough to have protected her from the 2nd impact?
 
I've wondered if the airbags would stay inflated by the time she hit the snowbank. Since she had 2 impacts, would the bag stay inflated enough to have protected her from the 2nd impact?

In my own speculative thoughts, I would say that the airbag might not need to protect her from the second impact.

Using this new found information from J.R. that she could have clipped the snowbank on the inside of the curve in front of the Westman's home, the airbag probably deployed at that time. The impact on the left front (driver's side) bumper could cause the vehicle to spin in a counterclockwise motion nearly 180 degrees so that the vehicle is now moving or sliding in a reverse motion. Depending on the speed the vehicle was travelling, it could have made it all the way to where it was found, OR if moving at a slower speed, the driver could have reached a point closer to the tree with the blue ribbon, where upon the driver would have to shift the vehicle into reverse and drive the remaining distance into the snowbank to it's final resting place. The deflated airbag, coupled with a panicked state, could've hindered the driver from steering properly. This could also explain why the Westmans allegedly heard an acceleration. The directional force of hitting the second snowbank in reverse would have kept her planted in her seat. The windshield could've cracked during either one of these two impacts, possibly by her heavy divers' wristwatch which Maura allegedly wore on her left wrist; a gift from her father.
 
Probably because if you google the campground, you pull up some aggregator sites (i.e. listings of all campgrounds) that indicate it is not open year-round, but what appears to be the official site says it is.

Someone should just call the campground and ask. Even better, ask when they were open in 2004.

Confirmed via telephone conversation with Pro-Sports, Inc., Camp Concessionaires:

Jigger Johnson campground is not open during the winter months nor has it historically been back to 2004 and prior.

The validity of Pro-Sports is corroborated by this NH government document:

https://www.nh.gov/nhes/documents/ServicesDirectoryBerlin.pdf

The official web site for the campground is at: http://icampnh.com

Also, FWIW, I will add that KancamagusHighway.com is probably not an official web site of any kind, evident from the disclaimer at the bottom of the page:

"KancamagusHighway.com is privately owned and not affiliated with the US Forest Service, the White Mountain National Forest or the Saco Ranger District. All information contained on this website should not be considered official information."
"Renner got his facts wrong." This was not an accusation or attack against Mr. Renner's credibility or ability as an investigative journalist. It is to show you that we should all take Mr. Renner's attention to detail with a grain of salt. When in doubt do your own research. Perhaps one purpose of his blog is to iron out details such as this by using public input prior to publishing his book.

All this doesn't really matter any way because, as scoops mentioned, she probably would've headed for Woodstock or other familiar places in that area.
 
I see some new info posted at James' blog:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

I don't get the point he is trying to make about "Check out Fred Murray's FOIA request. I've never seen anything like it from the parent of a missing family member." - it looks all logical to me.
 
I see some new info posted at James' blog:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

I don't get the point he is trying to make about "Check out Fred Murray's FOIA request. I've never seen anything like it from the parent of a missing family member." - it looks all logical to me.

My husband reminded me of this man we once knew. Personalities are all quite different we know this. The man I refer to, would have done the same, not left anything to chance, want to control everything in any type of investigation, in otherwords, "watch peoples backs".

Being older (as we are) perhaps others far younger don't realize that about human nature.

Everyone is different.

This father sounds like man we once knew who'd not leave anything, including a police investigation "to chance" , fate or God.

This personality tic should not then cast any type of disparaging pall around anyone.

Who is perfect anyway on this earth, when it comes to our personalities to point a finger at the other ?
 
I see some new info posted at James' blog:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

I don't get the point he is trying to make about "Check out Fred Murray's FOIA request. I've never seen anything like it from the parent of a missing family member." - it looks all logical to me.

I think Fred has a bad taste in his mouth about the NH LE. They were rather slow responding to Maura's disappearance. They also came up with suicide as the answer very early into the investigation. I can see why he didn't trust that they would ever find her. I don't think the LE in that area are used to cases like this. IMO, they didn't handle the family that well. Somewhat like doctors with terrible bed side manners.

JMO
 
I think Fred has a bad taste in his mouth about the NH LE. They were rather slow responding to Maura's disappearance. They also came up with suicide as the answer very early into the investigation. I can see why he didn't trust that they would ever find her. I don't think the LE in that area are used to cases like this. IMO, they didn't handle the family that well. Somewhat like doctors with terrible bed side manners.

JMO

McSpy,

I really think it is an either/or type situation.

Either how you describe it is exactly how it went down. the police sloppily fumbled the case from the beginning by not taking Maura going missing very seriously and did not tactfully deal with the family in a proper way with information release. (A very possible conclusion)

Or, Police discovered credible and solid information early on that (they have never disclosed to family or the public) that to them eliminated the possibility of some of the theories that have developed about this case such as a mass murderer on the loose who just happened to have perfect timing the night Maura went missing. (Maybe thinking more on the lines of a suicide)

If it is the Or situation, then that would explain the police'es almost nonchalant appearance when it came to looking for a "Bad guy."
It would also explain why, even after all these years, they have not released all the information and evidence they have, because they do not have a body and forensic testing on the body to back up their conclusions.

If you are going to go public and say We believe Maura took her life, you better have the physical proof, because the family and public for that matter will demand it. Early on, I think the police PR slipped up and threw out the potential theory of suicide and quickly changed their tune once the public heat began to turn up on them. Then they almost went into lockdown mode on the release of pertinent information related to the case after that and even made a very shallow attempt to suggest that maybe a crime took place to try and show that they were taking a balanced apporach to the case (Pure move IMO, to avoid a future lawsuit more than actually believing what they were saying to the public).
 
I think Fred has a bad taste in his mouth about the NH LE. They were rather slow responding to Maura's disappearance. They also came up with suicide as the answer very early into the investigation. I can see why he didn't trust that they would ever find her. I don't think the LE in that area are used to cases like this. IMO, they didn't handle the family that well. Somewhat like doctors with terrible bed side manners.

JMO

I agree, and good analogy what I BBM....
I think FM was most upset that LE did go after MM more aggressively since no matter what reason for her leaving her car, she was endangered..
 
Interesting, yes, but if the police ARE trying to investigate these people, there went the investigation, potentially. I hope Mr. Renner realizes this isn't a game, and he is NOT Sherlock Holmes.
 
Interesting, yes, but if the police ARE trying to investigate these people, there went the investigation, potentially. I hope Mr. Renner realizes this isn't a game, and he is NOT Sherlock Holmes.

BBM

This is just my belief, but I do STRONGLY believe that Maura's family wants to know where she is (in whatever state of being), and I believe, just as strongly, that they want justice--if there is any to be had, that is.

I am fully supportive of State of New Hampshire law enforcement efforts, but I do seriously wonder "if the police ARE trying to investigate these people" because, after all is said and done, seven-and-a-half YEARS have passed since Maura was last seen alive by anyone who knows her personally.

Even though Mr. Renner "is NOT Sherlock Holmes," at least he's attempting to learn what became of Maura, and I ask all who read this post: IS Mr. Renner playing "a game" or is he serious and well intentioned about learning what became of Maura?

I have no personal stake in anything having to do with Maura's disappearance or the aftermath, but her case haunts me. The Maura Murray and Ray Gricar disappearances are keeping me awake many nights.....
 
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