AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #14

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I think this might just be exactly what happened. I can't see EJ randomly finding "adoptive parents" in the short time she was in San Antonio. I still think there's a possibility she went there for that purpose and the deal fell through. Or it could be she just ended up there after taking off from AZ. MOO

Hmmm... this is all making me wonder if the Smith's didn't try to get her to come back based on that conversation on the 23rd, when she refused, possibly Tammi then hooked her up with other adoptive parents?

I feel like I'm missing something that I just read, but, it's still possible Elizabeth went out on the 23rd on a job interview, Tammi called and told her Logan was going to find her etc. and that she should come back (covering her behind in the process), she said she wasn't coming back, then Tammi set up someone to pick up Gabriel (hence the post about the underground, was that on the 23rd)? I'm not stuck on this scenario, just seeing if it's another that is feasible.
 
I'm trying to catch up on the closed thread and I wanted to address something posted there by Kamille, because I've seen this come up more than once:

Would someone in EJ's financial position get a break on prescription medicine and would a doctor be able to prescribe regular tylenol in order for a single mother to take advantage of this? Since it does look like a prescription label on that bottle, when did Gabriel last go to the doctor?

Arizona's version of Medicaid is the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System (aka AHCCCS, also called Access). Members of Access can get many OTC medications prescribed to them. I believe some of it is free, and sometimes they pay a low co-pay. Some of the OTC medications include things like Tylenol, Tums, Pedialyte, Benadryl, Robitussin and Nicoderm.

I don't know if EJ and/or Gabriel are on Access, but if they are, that could be how EJ obtained medicine for Gabriel for little to no cost.

http://www.healthchoiceaz.com/formulary/formulary-2010.pdf
 
Well I think Tammi got upset because if Eliz didn't come back, then Tammi wouldn't get the baby she wanted.

The baby broker theory doesn't work for me. I think Tammi was all about getting Gabriel for herself.

I think she applied major pressure to Eliz to come back, and that didn't work for Eliz because she just plain didn't want Logan to get his hands on Gabriel.

I can just see Eliz's fury increasing.

Unfortunately I don't see how she could have found anyone else to 'adopt' Gabriel so quickly (Dec 23 to Dec 26).

I want to know how often Tammi talked to her during that timeframe, and I want to see all the texts between them.

Elizabeth is ultimately responsible, but I think Tammi fanned the flames. I don't see how with Logan's descriptions of Eliz's rages how Tammi could not see the state Eliz was in, and make the quick and easy logical jump to Gabriel being in extreme danger.

BBM I don't think so either, BUT I don't think she randomly ended up in San Antonio either -- in your opinion, how does San Antonio fit in? and what appointment did she have? and why did TS post her infamous message wishing EJ well?
 
I believe logan did talk with her. The interview of him I saw..he said she told him (made it sound verbally.. not text) thatshe had killed him... suffocated him.

Yep they did talk as well as the texts on the 27th. I haven't seen where they talked or texted prior to that though. There's the one reference Eliz makes to Logan telling her she would be arrested for kidnapping but I'm not sure that didn't come from Tammi rather than Logan directly.
 
Geez...what a flurry of info tonight...just coming in...missed NG at 7 here...will watch at 9...but did she show some different pictures than we have already seen?

I saw some of Gabe with his family... dad, grandparents where he looked so loved. I have never seen those before
 
Well I think Tammi got upset because if Eliz didn't come back, then Tammi wouldn't get the baby she wanted.

The baby broker theory doesn't work for me. I think Tammi was all about getting Gabriel for herself.

I think she applied major pressure to Eliz to come back, and that didn't work for Eliz because she just plain didn't want Logan to get his hands on Gabriel.

I can just see Eliz's fury increasing.

Unfortunately I don't see how she could have found anyone else to 'adopt' Gabriel so quickly (Dec 23 to Dec 26).

I want to know how often Tammi talked to her during that timeframe, and I want to see all the texts between them.

Elizabeth is ultimately responsible, but I think Tammi fanned the flames. I don't see how with Logan's descriptions of Eliz's rages how Tammi could not see the state Eliz was in, and make the quick and easy logical jump to Gabriel being in extreme danger.

I agree BeanE, I believe this started with a TS plan... TS might have messed it up herself by contacting Logan... TS probably did try to call it off... EJ said no way. And continued on. I don't think there was too much time to get a "new" plan... but EJ has now learned enough from TS to carry off something anyway.... or the unthinkable did happen. Regardless TS was and is afraid from the git-go that EJ will implicate her and her buddies.... TS knows now she has completely lost any control she might have had over the situation. She is in panic mode... I pray there was a couple in the park or the equivelant of it.
 
Anna Lisa said the baby had dried boogers around his nose and I could swear at least one pic showed the stained jumpsuit. Hopefully I'm not imagining it, so will have to go look again.

about the stained clothing. I am not buying too much into the hype in all of that. babies are messy - plain and simple
we dont have a time stamp so we dont know if those were taken in the morning or late at night after wearing the jammies all day. Also - do we know how much clothes she brought for him. I doubt she made a stop at the laundry mat to wash his clothes
 
Anna Lisa said the baby had dried boogers around his nose and I could swear at least one pic showed the stained jumpsuit. Hopefully I'm not imagining it, so will have to go look again.

Uh-oh. I probably need to go burn some old photos of my kids.

C'mon now, y'all - stained clothes and dried up residue from a snotty nose? How many of us have not had a child who wore a less than brand-new looking outfits? How many of us have not had a member of our family [regardless of age] with a runny nose over the past month?

[If I'm the only imperfect one on here, I reckon I ought to delete my account and change my name, for fear of DCF coming to take my children away.]
 
I said this last night but I'm going to repeat it.
Its not logical for a person who has just killed someone to text or call someone else and tell them, I really think she did that just to upset Logan.
Next if she was going to kill Gabriel than why would she go through the trouble of hiring a babysitter? Why would she have tried to adopt him out? I'll say it again in those pictures he Doesn't look dirty to me so why would she bother even changing his clothes? also why would she leave AZ to go to TX to kill Gabriel and then wait over a week?
I just dont beleive that EJ killed him, I think they need to focus on find an alive Gabriel. However my fear is that whoever does have him may kill him if they fear they are going to get caught.
Personally I like it better when TS is in the spotlight, her being quite is making me nervous... I hope they did not run off.
 
He sure wasn't smiling in those pics. Most babies will smile at their mom even if they are tired or a little sick. Those stained up jumpsuit pajamas are awful. I guess she couldn't even be bothered to put a bib on the baby when she fed him or to clean his nose.

Stained up? A little bit of baby food is a lot different from, say an outfit covered in feces or just a diaper (considering the weather.) He looked pretty well taken care of to me. And if she's anything like me, she doesn't even own a bib, lol.
Not defending EJ, really I'm not, but those pics, drugged or not, don't look like he was being physically neglected. IMO.
 
Hmmm... this is all making me wonder if the Smith's didn't try to get her to come back based on that conversation on the 23rd, when she refused, possibly Tammi then hooked her up with other adoptive parents?

I feel like I'm missing something that I just read, but, it's still possible Elizabeth went out on the 23rd on a job interview, Tammi called and told her Logan was going to find her etc. and that she should come back (covering her behind in the process), she said she wasn't coming back, then Tammi set up someone to pick up Gabriel (hence the post about the underground, was that on the 23rd)? I'm not stuck on this scenario, just seeing if it's another that is feasible.

I know I'm quoting myself here, but in my first sentence I didn't mean to say 'adoptive parents'... I'm really thinking if she handed Gabriel off, it was to someone Tammi just sent to pick him up and take him somewhere, all else to be decided later.

Anyone quickly remember when was the post about the underground by Tammi - date?
 
Yeah, who knows? I suspect she contacted her on a hotel computer and LE might not have had that info. Since Elizabeth wanted to take Gabriel to her house, I suspect she was trying to avoid someone coming to the hotel and being able to identify where she was? I don't know. I just think we shoudl hold off from bashing LE right now. And, I am not one who own't if I think they did something wrong.

it is quite possible they just made their arrangements over the internet. I deal on craigslist often and I never talk to anyone on the phone. All of our arrangements are made in email and I always include my cell incase they get lost or something. Im sure LE has gone through the computer records at the hotel. They probably wouldnt be able to prove that it was her that did a certain search because it is a public computer - at the very least they would be able to get some sort of lead
 
Uh-oh. I probably need to go burn some old photos of my kids.

C'mon now, y'all - stained clothes and dried up residue from a snotty nose? How many of us have not had a child who wore a less than brand-new looking outfits? How many of us have not had a member of our family [regardless of age] with a runny nose over the past month?

[If I'm the only imperfect one on here, I reckon I ought to delete my account and change my name, for fear of DCF coming to take my children away.]
You're in the clear and most definitely not alone. Babies, especially ones that are possibly teething or ill and learning how to eat are not the cleanest. Dirt happens, sometimes pictures happen simultaneously.

That to me, tells us nothing, except that his care may have been better than some of us figured.
 
I'm trying to catch up on the closed thread and I wanted to address something posted there by Kamille, because I've seen this come up more than once:

Would someone in EJ's financial position get a break on prescription medicine and would a doctor be able to prescribe regular tylenol in order for a single mother to take advantage of this? Since it does look like a prescription label on that bottle, when did Gabriel last go to the doctor?

Arizona's version of Medicaid is the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System (aka AHCCCS, also called Access). Members of Access can get many OTC medications prescribed to them. I believe some of it is free, and sometimes they pay a low co-pay. Some of the OTC medications include things like Tylenol, Tums, Pedialyte, Benadryl, Robitussin and Nicoderm.

I don't know if EJ and/or Gabriel are on Access, but if they are, that could be how EJ obtained medicine for Gabriel for little to no cost.

http://www.healthchoiceaz.com/formulary/formulary-2010.pdf

In case you missed it. Someone posted a pic to show that that was infact a tylenol bottle with no prescription. =)
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4702450&postcount=903"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, missing since 12-26-09 thread #13[/ame]
 
Uh-oh. I probably need to go burn some old photos of my kids.

C'mon now, y'all - stained clothes and dried up residue from a snotty nose? How many of us have not had a child who wore a less than brand-new looking outfits? How many of us have not had a member of our family [regardless of age] with a runny nose over the past month?

[If I'm the only imperfect one on here, I reckon I ought to delete my account and change my name, for fear of DCF coming to take my children away.]

I agree...and how many children has she watched. My grandson started drooling so much at that age, we were having to change his clothes all the time....as far as the nose...I run a humidifier with Vicks and a vicks little machine with pad's thinking that will help, as well as using the nose battery operated suction, which by the way is great, but it still can't stop a runny nose that cakes up during sleep. As far as the clothes, they looked just fine...
 
has there been any luck finding the time and date stamp on the pics or was that definitely removed before they were released?
 
it is quite possible they just made their arrangements over the internet. I deal on craigslist often and I never talk to anyone on the phone. All of our arrangements are made in email and I always include my cell incase they get lost or something. Im sure LE has gone through the computer records at the hotel. They probably wouldnt be able to prove that it was her that did a certain search because it is a public computer - at the very least they would be able to get some sort of lead

Same here... I have done that many times. If I sell something on craigslist I often never give the person my phone number. In the past, I have arranged to even sell something at a public, well light place without giving out my phone number or my address.

(adding, not I wasn't selling anything illegal! :)
 
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