Police say parents are not answering vital questions

I've been thinking about exactly WHAT is meant by statements such as these...."parents not answering vital questions"....at times, they almost appear cryptic to me.
Going along THOSE lines....just a wee bit off the thread topic...

I'm still having trouble with DB's comment about "failing" the LDT...WHICH question in particular?? I don't remember her ever saying which one it was....correct me if I'm wrong, please. Seems, it almost immediately became accepted/theorized as a question like "did you do something to your daughter". Heck, maybe they asked her what her weight or size she is and she "adjusted" it....LOL
I'm not a LDT expert, but as I've heard, doesn't it have to do with the question being asked and how it's phrased that can lead to a "deceptive" response??
Maybe she has a strong feeling about who she "thinks" it is, and the way the question was worded came up as her giving a deceptive answer. All question/speculation.

The "questions" matter gets me wondering, as well. It could just as well be something about the people who were there that night and why were they there....bouncing off the phone call to MW's phone and all these Shanes or Danes or whoever start popping up. Maybe DB doesn't want to end up looking worse than she already seems with the being drunk/blacked out stuff. I mean, sheesh, maybe she could have bought a joint off of one of them. In the media, it would go from an alkie to a drug addict slammin' heroine.

I AM NOT INFERRING ANYONE IS INVOLVED IN DRUGS, in any way shape or form.

But, sometimes, the less said about things isn't such a bad thing. I honestly believe LE wants to know more about that crew in that other house and DB/JI's connection to them...be it nothing, as they've said....or something, they won't/can't say.


All, just IMO.

MyTinkieGirl said:

I've been thinking about exactly WHAT is meant by statements such as these....at times, they almost appear cryptic to me.
Going along THOSE lines....just a wee bit off the thread topic...

I'm still having trouble with DB's comment about "failing" the LDT...WHICH question in particular?? I don't remember her ever saying which one it was....correct me if I'm wrong, please. Seems, it almost immediately became accepted/theorized as a question like "did you do something to your daughter". Heck, maybe they asked her what her weight or size she is and she "adjusted" it....LOL
I'm not a LDT expert, but as I've heard, doesn't it have to do with the question being asked and how it's phrased that can lead to a "deceptive" response??
Maybe she has a strong feeling about who she "thinks" it is, and the way the question was worded came up as her giving a deceptive answer. All question/speculation.

The "questions" matter gets me wondering, as well. It could just as well be something about the people who were there that night and why were they there....bouncing off the phone call to MW's phone and all these Shanes or Danes or whoever start popping up. Maybe DB doesn't want to end up looking worse than she already seems with the being drunk/blacked out stuff. I mean, sheesh, maybe she could have bought a joint off of one of them. In the media, it would go from an alkie to a drug addict slammin' heroine.

I AM NOT INFERRING ANYONE IS INVOLVED IN DRUGS, in any way shape or form.

But, sometimes, the less said about things isn't such a bad thing. I honestly believe LE wants to know more about that crew in that other house and DB/JI's connection to them...be it nothing, as they've said....or something, they won't/can't say.


All, just IMO.

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This was answered somewhere in reply to one of my posts. I will have to go look it up with the link

MyTinkieGirl said:

I'm still having trouble with DB's comment about "failing" the LDT...WHICH question in particular?? I don't remember her ever saying which one it was....correct me if I'm wrong, please.

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IIRC she said it was "do you know where your daughter is at" but I don't have a link handy.

MyTinkieGirl said:

I
WHICH question in particular??

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Respectfully snipped by me

I believe the question was something regarding, where Lisa is?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, it was indeed a question regarding knowing the current location of her daughter. The one supposedly failed on the poly.

Poor lisa

Karmaa said:

I am not sure what scientific research says, but it would seem to me that unless it was a vacuum sealed container, the dogs could hit.

However, even if they couldn't that leaves some big questions. What happened to the container? It would float if there was air in it, so surely it would have been found by now. Unless there was a lot more than 30lb. in it. But if there was, what would a diabolical person put in the box that would not be traceable to them? Scott Peterson used concrete, but with only 4 hours, DB had no time for that.

Maybe she threw the container out and just dumped the baby? But where? Something large enough to hold a 30-lb baby would be large enough to catch the attention of searchers or LE. Unless she drove way further than just the river. Which would be risky because the longer she was away from home, the more likely she is to get caught, since she didn't know when JI would be home.

It just doesn't work easily. Not to say it couldn't be done, but it would require so much luck and forethought that it seems unlikely.

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Just to throw a scenario out there but.. what if DB did have Lisa in an airtight container and dumped her in the river, then threw the airtight container in the dumpster, hence the dumpster fire,the plastic would have burned quickly. Even so, its not that far a walk to the river either and she either had help and its a mystery person that picked lisa up at the house while DB tried to straighten up and set things up for a kidnapping or she walked her there herself. I just find this to be a very likely scenario. So many area's of woods have been checked and yes, I know not all of them but if DB is like us, she watches all the crime shows and follows trials and knows that the river would wash away anything and chances of Lisa being found are almost none. So so sad.

I have a question - since this thread has been going since Oct 18th and it is now Nov 22 - are we sure that the parents haven't been answering the questions in this time? Has LE made any recent statements that say they need answers? Has LE made any recent statements at all? These are not rhetorical questions - I can't always keep up everyday so I am not sure what LE has said in the past few weeks. thanks

MyTinkieGirl said:

I've been thinking about exactly WHAT is meant by statements such as these...."parents not answering vital questions"....at times, they almost appear cryptic to me.
Going along THOSE lines....just a wee bit off the thread topic...

I'm still having trouble with DB's comment about "failing" the LDT...WHICH question in particular?? I don't remember her ever saying which one it was....correct me if I'm wrong, please. Seems, it almost immediately became accepted/theorized as a question like "did you do something to your daughter". Heck, maybe they asked her what her weight or size she is and she "adjusted" it....LOL
I'm not a LDT expert, but as I've heard, doesn't it have to do with the question being asked and how it's phrased that can lead to a "deceptive" response??
Maybe she has a strong feeling about who she "thinks" it is, and the way the question was worded came up as her giving a deceptive answer. All question/speculation.

The "questions" matter gets me wondering, as well. It could just as well be something about the people who were there that night and why were they there....bouncing off the phone call to MW's phone and all these Shanes or Danes or whoever start popping up. Maybe DB doesn't want to end up looking worse than she already seems with the being drunk/blacked out stuff. I mean, sheesh, maybe she could have bought a joint off of one of them. In the media, it would go from an alkie to a drug addict slammin' heroine.

I AM NOT INFERRING ANYONE IS INVOLVED IN DRUGS, in any way shape or form.

But, sometimes, the less said about things isn't such a bad thing. I honestly believe LE wants to know more about that crew in that other house and DB/JI's connection to them...be it nothing, as they've said....or something, they won't/can't say.


All, just IMO.

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I don't understand why they do Lie Detector Tests. They aren't admissible in Court. Also, Guilty people have been known to pass them, and Innocent people have been known to fail them.
This to me is a waste of resources when LE know that they aren't reliable. It also proves to me that they were trying to trap Debbie with something that they know is useless. This is disgraceful.

Sabot said:

It is so refreshing to see posters supporting the Lack of Evidence against Debbie Bradley and Jeremy Irwin. I am so tired of the automatic Guilty label in these Cases, long before anyone knows anything.
And even now after six weeks there is still nothing to point to their guilt, or the guilt of anyone else for that matter.
By all means lets discuss The Facts. There are some suspicious carryings on, but nothing to point to the parents at this stage.
I often can't specifically remember doing something that I do automatically, and am then surprised to discover that I didn't. I automatically lock my door every night, but got quite a shock one morning last week when I discovered that I hadn't. This could well explain why Debbie didn't specifically remember checking on Lisa before she went to bed that night, especially in the light of the shock and horror next morning. This does not point to her guilt.
And incidentally, I was stone cold sober when I forgot to lock the door.

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I'm trying to catch up here but had to comment.

BBM

We don't know any of those things. All we know is there hasn't been an arrest yet. I think it's a bit of a leap from that fact to there isn't any evidence. I'm sure that LE has evidence. As to what that points to, we don't know yet, because there hasn't been an arrest.

Some things we do know. Lisa was last seen alive by her mother. Her parents reported her kidnapped. There was a lack of supervision the night Lisa disappeared. And the mother was drinking alcohol the night Lisa vanished.

If you take just those facts, you could insert other names and have the stories of other disappeared children where we do know what happened. While it doesn't prove anything, it does have the makings of cases we have all heard before, unfortunately.

frankie069 said:

Just to throw a scenario out there but.. what if DB did have Lisa in an airtight container and dumped her in the river, then threw the airtight container in the dumpster, hence the dumpster fire,the plastic would have burned quickly. Even so, its not that far a walk to the river either and she either had help and its a mystery person that picked lisa up at the house while DB tried to straighten up and set things up for a kidnapping or she walked her there herself. I just find this to be a very likely scenario. So many area's of woods have been checked and yes, I know not all of them but if DB is like us, she watches all the crime shows and follows trials and knows that the river would wash away anything and chances of Lisa being found are almost none. So so sad.

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Oh My. Debbie would have had to have been a very busy girl that night. And her not knowing what time Jeremy was likely to arrive home. Unless he was in on it as well.
And the thought of asking my brother to help me dispose of his dead niece leaves me in a state of shock.

frankie069 said:

Just to throw a scenario out there but.. what if DB did have Lisa in an airtight container and dumped her in the river, then threw the airtight container in the dumpster, hence the dumpster fire,the plastic would have burned quickly. Even so, its not that far a walk to the river either and she either had help and its a mystery person that picked lisa up at the house while DB tried to straighten up and set things up for a kidnapping or she walked her there herself. I just find this to be a very likely scenario. So many area's of woods have been checked and yes, I know not all of them but if DB is like us, she watches all the crime shows and follows trials and knows that the river would wash away anything and chances of Lisa being found are almost none. So so sad.

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While it is not that far of a walk to the river, you would also have to factor in the terrain and the fact that is it pitch black out. It is not as easy as a map makes it look and to get to the water itself is further than it looks also. Again in the pitch black of the night while leaving the other kids alone and JI possibly coming home at any minute.:waitasec:

We know someone was busy that night. Supposedly someone sneaked in the woods in the dark. Is there any reason why DB's night vision would be any worse than Jersey's or a random perp's?

Leaving older children alone might not be a great concern for someone who was prepared to dispose of a baby.

She wouldn't be the first person to try and manage a cover up really fast while waiting for someone to come home.

I don't know if she did anything but if it was impossible for her to see anything in the dark how could a stranger perp have managed? Yet someone did move there in the pitch black.

Amster said:

wow..hadn't been around this board much, lately. Looks like DB and JI have done a good job drumming up support! Not hard to do with media attorneys and large law firms. But, kind of sad, too. Where is the support for baby Lisa? Oh! That's right....local LE and the FBI are her support. Bless them for not giving up on her. For tirelessly searching...

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What? IMO I think people on both sides of the debate agree that finding baby Lisa is most important just opinions on guilt and innocence is the disagreement. Why would anyone be here if they didn't want her to be found? I am sure people on both sides have shed tears over this little angel and want the guilty party to be punished. I think everyone here would love a happy ending where there is a miracle and baby Lisa is found safe and secure somewhere. I also believe everyone here would love to see the guilty person punished for they're crime some just disagree on who is guilty and right now LE doesn't have enough to arrest anyone so I think the argument can be made on both sides. I honestly think that this case and any other involving children especially brings out a lot of emotions in people, but that is because they feel a compassion for the child and people they see has victims in the case. Some see the parents has victims of a horrible act so they are putting themselves in that position. Others see the parents has the criminals who hurt a beautiful baby girl and that is they're position. what everyone has in common is the fact that they care about a beautiful child and want answers and the person responsible to be brought to justice.

Donjeta said:

We know someone was busy that night.

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Yep, and I am not picturing DB as having that much stamina.

Sabot said:

I don't understand why they do Lie Detector Tests. They aren't admissible in Court. Also, Guilty people have been known to pass them, and Innocent people have been known to fail them.
This to me is a waste of resources when LE know that they aren't reliable. It also proves to me that they were trying to trap Debbie with something that they know is useless. This is disgraceful.

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IMO, asking DB to take a poly after her child went missing while she was supposedly sleeping and her husband was working does not prove that LE was trying to trap DB. Polys are simply one of many tools LE uses-no more, no less.

Under the circumstances, had LE not asked DB to take a poly-that I might label disgraceful.

In da Middle said:

Yep, and I am not picturing DB as having that much stamina.

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People can do a lot of surprising things when they've got adrenaline running high and are really motivated. Not saying she did, but I'm not picturing her quite as helpless as that. Does she have a handicap of some sort that I haven't heard of?

Karmaa said:

We have a rough timeline.
-We know that until at least 10:30pm DB was accounted for.
-We know that until 11:30pm her house was dark and people were standing outside.
-We know that Lisa was gone at 3:30am

That leaves four hours.

In that 3 hours, DB would have had to

-Wake up We don't know that she went to sleep after 10:30pm
-Kill the baby She might have been already been dead or Db could have killed her. How long does it take to smother or hit a baby?
-Find someone to help her (with no working phone) She did have a computer or she could have acted alone.
-Dispose of the baby somewhere where 2 months later she wouldn't be found The river
-Dispose of the cell phones The river
-Clean up all traces of the crime If BL OD'd was smothered or hit to the head, there wouldn't really be anything to clean up.
-Go back to bed and (probably) fall asleep

Logic says that this would be very, very difficult. NOT impossible (which is why I personally am still on the fence), but really hard to fit in four hours.

That is assuming that there is confirmation that Lisa was alive at the time that the neighbor came over, and we have gotten snippets of information that she was.

That's just based on what we KNOW. There are possibly many other things that we do not know. When those things are discovered, they may support either guilt or innocence.

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My comments in red.

ETA- just so we're clear. . .I don't think that the phones went into the river, at least not when BL did (if we are following the this theory here.)

I have other thoughts about what happened with the phones.

I was just trying to show that yes, it is possible for this to have happened in 3 hours.

Three hours to dump her and the phones in the river. I think that is very possible from where the house is on Lister. I don't think it's a stretch at all.

Sabot said:

Oh My. Debbie would have had to have been a very busy girl that night. And her not knowing what time Jeremy was likely to arrive home. Unless he was in on it as well.
And the thought of asking my brother to help me dispose of his dead niece leaves me in a state of shock.

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In da Middle said:

While it is not that far of a walk to the river, you would also have to factor in the terrain and the fact that is it pitch black out. It is not as easy as a map makes it look and to get to the water itself is further than it looks also. Again in the pitch black of the night while leaving the other kids alone and JI possibly coming home at any minute.:waitasec:

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Well supposedly Jeremy did say he called home to say he was going to be late. then again, I feel like he was in on part of this, just not sure if its the cover up or what. We also have so many different time frames to people that saw Lisa, what is the last time now that someone besides DB or another child saw her because neither word will be taken seriously by me. She could have disposed of this body much earlier in the day then we think. If she had help, that person, possibly being physically fit could have made that walk as well. Once again like I said, someone else in a car could have had an airtight case and put Lisa in it and disposed of it in the dumpster on the way home and then afterwards though, crap, its in the dumpster, then hence the dumpster fire which could have been done hours later for all we know. There could be a person out there with a bin in their home knowing it had Lisa in it or one they found someplace and took home NOT knowing it had Lisa in it. There are a lot of different ways this could have been done. I know in my heart that DB did this to her child, its just who helped her I am not sure of. I do also believe that JI knows and is covering for her. Why, I dont have a clue. But even for him to come out and say that he is returning to work, they are back in the house and things are almost back to 100% normal doesnt make for a normal person in my book. I lost my dad a year go this Sunday and my life is STILL no where near back to 50% I cannot imagine losing one of my children. It would never be back to normal. I could almost understand if Lisa was found, there really was a kidnapper and her body was brought home to rest that for the sake of the other children they were trying to move on, but almost at 100%, come on. That was a ballsy comment on his part. JMO

frankie069 said:

Just to throw a scenario out there but.. what if DB did have Lisa in an airtight container and dumped her in the river, then threw the airtight container in the dumpster, hence the dumpster fire,the plastic would have burned quickly. Even so, its not that far a walk to the river either and she either had help and its a mystery person that picked lisa up at the house while DB tried to straighten up and set things up for a kidnapping or she walked her there herself. I just find this to be a very likely scenario. So many area's of woods have been checked and yes, I know not all of them but if DB is like us, she watches all the crime shows and follows trials and knows that the river would wash away anything and chances of Lisa being found are almost none. So so sad.

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IIRC - Jim Spellman said it would not be feasible to walk to the river in the dark - that it wasn't a straight path, there were obstacles, an incline and not so easy in the light let alone dark etc... InDaMiddle could probably clarify, although I think she has already.

So, carrying her dead baby, unsure if her kids will get up and scream to high heaven for her, not knowing when Jeremy is going to be home...and alcohol level HIGH ~ quite the chance to take ~ and then to walk back home after having done this and throw the container in the dumpster and somehow get a massive roaring fire going. I can't see it imo

Please continue here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7375683#post7375683"]Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

And please take the time to read the opening post. The attacks on each other for differing opinions are not acceptable and it would be nice if they would stop so the Mods could focus on other issues.

Just sayin'

Salem