IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

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imkeylime said:
The whole issue of private polygraphs confuses me, truthfully. Let's say that the answers aren't favorable to JR ... would the polygrapher be able to administer a second polygraph and not submit the first one? Is he/she allowed to keep such info private?
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Yes. If your attorney sets up a private poly, it is protected by attorney-client privilege, preventing the results from being disclosed without consent.

If you google "private polygraph" you'll find a million companies that cater to defense lawyers for this purpose. Here's one that explains the poly from the lawyer-client perspective: http://www.tkjpolygraph.com/attorney.html

Note:
Polygraph examinations given by the government or a law enforcement agency are used to support prosecutorial efforts. In contrast, TKJ Polygraph, LLC examinations is confidential, attorney-client work product. Nothing about the examination, including the simple fact a test was administered occurs without your prior written permission. You are in control of the release of any and all information about the examination. All data collected from the examination, which includes audio/visual recording, polygraph charts and written information is released only upon a written directive from the attorney ... Utilizing a private polygraph examination prevents providing a prosecutor the opportunity to conduct discovery about your case directly from a client since you never know what question the prosecutor's examiner will ask during the examination or interviews.... TKJ Polygraph customizes Specific Issue polygraph examination around defense attorney's needs. This polygraph program will allow defense attorney’s to better defend their client or shape their defense strategy, either by putting pressure on the prosecution or by being ready for any circumstance during trial.
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AbbeyR said:
A polygraph provided by a defense lawyer isn't going to be a confirmation of their entire story, it is the response to specific questions. If any of these answers are being provided to LE, sure, we can assume they are favorable to JR. But we can't assume the content. For all we know, the 'passed polygraph' could simply show that JR does not know LS's location. Or it could be an attempt to diminish his client's responsibility or prevent/ negotiate certain charges in the future. For example, if test results show that JR did not suppy LS with drugs, did not assault her, etc.

The whole advantage to a private poly is that the lawyer is in control of any and all information about the exam, right? It doesn't really matter what questions we / LE think are the important ones.
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You keep using the word "we." I'm speaking only for myself (and as someone who has repeatedly questioned JR's story more than anyone else's, in case you missed that). As far as I'm concerned, it's more likely than not that JR has been polygraphed on the same statement he provided to LE. If he has not been, I believe LE would regard him as uncooperative, and might advertise that fact in some fashion as a leveraging tool - the family's statement doesn't seem to qualify to me, coming after weeks of silence. Even if they did so privately, it might be cause for JR not to have returned to campus. Could JR have submitted a poly saying simply, "I don't know where LS is"? Sure, that's theoretically possible. It's also a little too facile - if someone he knows got rid of her without his involvement, he's obviously not going to know - and therefore not going to fool anyone. Could he have added, "I had no involvement in her disappearance"? Sure, and again, same deal, plus the possibility of ethical considerations for the lawyer. In either case, LE would be on him about why he's unwilling to be poly'd on the "full" statements he has provided to them. Again, there's little that can be said about this case with certainty. But I think it's useful to talk in terms of probabilities.
 
doubtingthomas said:
...
On the night LS disappeared, the bartender had gotten off work and drove by Smallwood
on her way home. She saw a young girl outside of Smallwood who looked completely
wasted. A male person was walking down the sidewalk towards her. She turned her vehicle around and went back. She asked the girl if she was ok. The male person responded, “She is with me”. Again she asked the girl if she was ok. Again, he responded, “I said she is with me”. The bartender went home.

The next night when she went to work she relayed the story to her co-workers. They asked her what the girl was wearing. When she told them, black slacks with a white top they informed her that the girl was missing.

The bartender went to the police and told them the story and gave them a description of the male person...
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This really does sound like it could be a version of TG's witness story. Still, it's interesting how even the change in one detail (like," A male person was walking down the sidewalk towards her") can make you think about a scenario in a different way. I don't know where to go with this, but I'd be interested in hearing more thoughts on it...
 
AbbeyR said:
This really does sound like it could be a version of TG's witness story. Still, it's interesting how even the change in one detail (like," A male person was walking down the sidewalk towards her") can make you think about a scenario in a different way. I don't know where to go with this, but I'd be interested in hearing more thoughts on it...
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When I was told about this (face to face) not by telephone as was sugessted in an earlier post, I thought the same thing. But, when she said in front of SW, then my reaction was another person may have seen her that night. Concerning the male person walking towards her, my thought was this could have been right after the altercation at SW. CR is pissed because he got punched in the face. They are leaving SW and he doesn't realize LS is not walking with him until he hears someone speak to her. He then walks back to her. I am still waiting to hear back from the orginal source of this story. Also, interested in hearing more thoughts.
 
I've always thought LS may have OD'd and a POI or PsOI disposed of her body to hide their involvement, i.e., that someone shared coke or alcohol with her ... or a prescription drug like Xanax, which might be easier to trace.

We've discussed Xanax quite a bit and the possibility it was involved that night, especially if she indeed talked about it at Sports. Re: Adderall: yesterday my daughter asked me what it was, saying a boy in her HS chem class keeps talking about it. That freaked me out. What I've learned is frightening. Students w/o ADHD take this drug not just to extend partying, but to enhance studying (it helps them stay awake and focus) and for weight loss (females in particular). The recent suicide of a Vanderbilt University student was attributed to it—abuse of the drug can cause psychosis. In the related article, a fellow student says that "everybody takes it." (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMo...e-students-abuse-study-drug/story?id=12066619)

The use of prescription drugs on campuses seems rampant, along with alcohol consumption. Any of these "cocktails" might have been deadly to LS given her heart condition ... and also might have compromised a POI's state of mind (not a defense for not talking or worse, obviously) or LS' state of mind (as in why oh why did she leave SW with CR?) ...
 
doubtingthomas said:
When I was told about this (face to face) not by telephone as was sugessted in an earlier post, I thought the same thing. But, when she said in front of SW, then my reaction was another person may have seen her that night. Concerning the male person walking towards her, my thought was this could have been right after the altercation at SW. CR is pissed because he got punched in the face. They are leaving SW and he doesn't realize LS is not walking with him until he hears someone speak to her. He then walks back to her. I am still waiting to hear back from the orginal source of this story. Also, interested in hearing more thoughts.
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When I used the term "telephone game" in my related post, I'm referring to the phenomenon of how information changes when it is one, two, three, etc. times removed from the original source. The "grapevine" and "Chinese whispers" are other names. Not meant to be disparaging whatsoever--I appreciate your sharing!

;)
 
No matter that a case might be made that he passed the poly and told the truth or else we would know otherwise, the highly dubious notions that she could walk normally and JR watched her walking always cancels out the poly. I always come back to how unlikely both actions are.

It's like not seeing the forest for the trees.
 
Jupiter812 said:
No matter that a case might be made that he passed the poly and told the truth or else we would know otherwise, the highly dubious notions that she could walk normally and JR watched her walking always cancels out the poly. I always come back to how unlikely both actions are.

It's like not seeing the forest for the trees.
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Add that he would have watched her leave with no shoes, cell, or keys to get in with. I realize I'm assuming he knew she had no cell, but why else would she use his phone as he claims she did. Maybe he was just a bad "friend" or I'm naive, but I'm not buying that, either. Given all the circumstances, I'd think he might have offered to go with her if she didn't want to stay.
 
imkeylime said:
I've always thought LS may have OD'd and a POI or PsOI disposed of her body to hide their involvement, i.e., that someone shared coke or alcohol with her ... or a prescription drug like Xanax, which might be easier to trace.

We've discussed Xanax quite a bit and the possibility it was involved that night, especially if she indeed talked about it at Sports. Re: Adderall: yesterday my daughter asked me what it was, saying a boy in her HS chem class keeps talking about it. That freaked me out. What I've learned is frightening. Students w/o ADHD take this drug not just to extend partying, but to enhance studying (it helps them stay awake and focus) and for weight loss (females in particular). The recent suicide of a Vanderbilt University student was attributed to it—abuse of the drug can cause psychosis. In the related article, a fellow student says that "everybody takes it." (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMo...e-students-abuse-study-drug/story?id=12066619)

The use of prescription drugs on campuses seems rampant, along with alcohol consumption. Any of these "cocktails" might have been deadly to LS given her heart condition ... and also might have compromised a POI's state of mind (not a defense for not talking or worse, obviously) or LS' state of mind (as in why oh why did she leave SW with CR?) ...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, some people wrongly believe that because a rx drug is legal, it is less dangerous than other narcotics.
 
Jupiter812 said:
No matter that a case might be made that he passed the poly and told the truth or else we would know otherwise, the highly dubious notions that she could walk normally and JR watched her walking always cancels out the poly. I always come back to how unlikely both actions are.

It's like not seeing the forest for the trees.
Click to expand...

I have come to believe that is the only thing LE has to go on in this case.No new searches.It is almost as if they were shamed into searching the landfill and most likely not the result of any specific info.Not the smallest effort on LE part to generate any publicity for this case.I believe they know the chances of them finding out where and what happened to LS are very slim and they just want all the publicity about this case to go away.I think LS parents know this to and that is why they are not going anywhere.Strange they did manage to make a statement to the press when they were compared to gomer pyle but no statements or press conf. on the status of their investigation.
 
PlainJaneDoe, I also wonder if they realize it's illegal to take a rx drug if you're not the prescription holder. And even if you are, adding alcohol into the mix isn't smart. I remember reading an excerpt from the blog of the diplomat's daughter (17-year-old freshman at Parson's) who fell from a high-rise apartment in NYC last year. I'm not sure if she was taking Xanax the night she died, but she wrote how it didn't mix with vodka. Her death made me sad as well.
 
phantomthought said:
I have come to believe that is the only thing LE has to go on in this case.No new searches.It is almost as if they were shamed into searching the landfill and most likely not the result of any specific info.Not the smallest effort on LE part to generate any publicity for this case.I believe they know the chances of them finding out where and what happened to LS are very slim and they just want all the publicity about this case to go away.I think LS parents know this to and that is why they are not going anywhere.Strange they did manage to make a statement to the press when they were compared to gomer pyle but no statements or press conf. on the status of their investigation.
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nothing to add... I totally agree with you, and have felt this way for some time.
 
phantomthought said:
I have come to believe that is the only thing LE has to go on in this case.No new searches.It is almost as if they were shamed into searching the landfill and most likely not the result of any specific info.Not the smallest effort on LE part to generate any publicity for this case.I believe they know the chances of them finding out where and what happened to LS are very slim and they just want all the publicity about this case to go away.I think LS parents know this to and that is why they are not going anywhere.Strange they did manage to make a statement to the press when they were compared to gomer pyle but no statements or press conf. on the status of their investigation.
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Yep, and this case will go down in the same way that so many do, too many unanswered questions, too much lawyering up, not enough evidence that a crime was even committed, and the case is not in the news anymore, which means that it goes slowly colder and colder month by month. It's high damn time the LE learned that silence is not golden in these cases. The more info given out, the more likely that it could be solved. AND WHO IS LOOKING FOR LAUREN?
 
mamamia54 said:
Yep, and this case will go down in the same way that so many do, too many unanswered questions, too much lawyering up, not enough evidence that a crime was even committed, and the case is not in the news anymore, which means that it goes slowly colder and colder month by month. It's high damn time the LE learned that silence is not golden in these cases. The more info given out, the more likely that it could be solved. AND WHO IS LOOKING FOR LAUREN?
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Thanks for posting this. I've been thinking about this issue quite a bit lately.

I'm not one of these people who thinks that LE needs to share everything or that we, the general public, are supposed to be privy to all aspects of an investigation. This isn't T.V. If LE has good reason to keep quiet because they have good leads and want to protect victims and families...well bully for them!

BUT... I also think LE needs to...evolve a bit. The internet is not going away. Social networking is not going to disappear. Blogs and Facebook and Twitter (or their supplanters) are here to stay. Privacy (as my computer scientist daughter likes to say) is dead.

I do fear that sometimes the silence of LE does more harm than good. Rumors and speculation abound. I fear that in this case, and in several others that I am following (Holly Bobo anyone? ), innocent names are being dragged through the mud. Through the power of the internet and search engines some of that damage will be lasting and far-reaching.

I think the days of LE being stone-cold silent and cases just going completely "cold" in the public mind have gone away.

I also feel that LE sometimes needs to be reminded that WE, the taxpayers, pay their salaries. They work for us. It's OK to keep secrets if it really does serve a purpose in the end: lives saved, convictions earned. I'd also like to add that I feel withholding information is one thing. Outright lying is another. I expect better than that from my public servants.

OK, rant off. I feel better now. :innocent:
 
I wonder if the recent silence is designed to let the Bo Dietl issue quietly dissipate? I really expected something from CS/RS this week... maybe on the weekend... and really, I keep hoping that the reason for the silence is that there's something brewing... but that hasn't worked for me yet...
 
Jessicaleanne1992 said:
can someone fill me in on some theories?
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My theory is that LS was taken from the area after or return8ing to the alley way to go home. She was on the sidewalk there. where her key was found because she had no shoes on and did-not want to walk upon the gravel. That is where she was taken. And I am leaning more towards her coming out of the alley as seen on the video. and her stuff being found a few minutes or so after that.
​

I don't believe the boy seen her turned the corner and walk home.

because that is not where her keys were found. They were found around 3am or so by the handrail.
​

I would speculate that all was over and done with around 430am.

The time he mentioned seeing her.
​

Come and take your poly test now.

Don't use the excuse your afraid LE may try and pin this on you.

It is a hi profile case, and LE is wise enough to know, it would be a bad idea to use you as a scapegoat in this investigation.
​

I still believe LS is nearby the area. No more then a hour or so in any direction. Not well hidden but out of sight. At a place pr-chosen to save time. A place one can find easily even in the dark. But a place one would have to know about in advance. A place not well driven or visited by many outside persons.
​





​
 
:+:MrTT:+: said:
My theory is that LS was taken from the area after or return8ing to the alley way to go home. She was on the sidewalk there. where her key was found because she had no shoes on and did-not want to walk upon the gravel. That is where she was taken. And I am leaning more towards her coming out of the alley as seen on the video. and her stuff being found a few minutes or so after that.
​

I don't believe the boy seen her turned the corner and walk home.

because that is not where her keys were found. They were found around 3am or so by the handrail.
​

I would speculate that all was over and done with around 430am.

The time he mentioned seeing her.
​

Come and take your poly test now.

Don't use the excuse your afraid LE may try and pin this on you.

It is a hi profile case, and LE is wise enough to know, it would be a bad idea to use you as a scapegoat in this investigation.
​

I still believe LS is nearby the area. No more then a hour or so in any direction. Not well hidden but out of sight. At a place pr-chosen to save time. A place one can find easily even in the dark. But a place one would have to know about in advance. A place not well driven or visited by many outside persons.
​





​
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Your last thought intrigues me. I keep hearing CS say how LS is everywhere but nowhere, how she has to be somewhere. What I hear you say is that someone took her to a place familiar to that someone yet out of the way. I'm not sure how to arrive at where, since we don't know who the someone is.

But ... I did have a thought. In Michigan, old pieces of farmland often have old (unused) silos. I'm wondering if Indiana has the same. I'm guessing that kind of thing would have been checked, but maybe not if it was slightly out of the expected driving distance. Just a wild thought ... with nothing to go on, really. I've also thought she could be really close ... under the surface of a construction site, for instance.
 
imkeylime said:
Your last thought intrigues me. I keep hearing CS say how LS is everywhere but nowhere, how she has to be somewhere. What I hear you say is that someone took her to a place familiar to that someone yet out of the way. I'm not sure how to arrive at where, since we don't know who the someone is.

But ... I did have a thought. In Michigan, old pieces of farmland often have old (unused) silos. I'm wondering if Indiana has the same. I'm guessing that kind of thing would have been checked, but maybe not if it was slightly out of the expected driving distance. Just a wild thought ... with nothing to go on, really. I've also thought she could be really close ... under the surface of a construction site, for instance.
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quote...
I'm not sure how to arrive at where, since we don't know who the someone is...end of quote.
As a starting point with the POI. As defined by LE.


If I was in LE and looking to go back in time.
And pick an area to research as a starting point.
I would start where they were searching around the time attorneys were hired. If I remember correctly, they were hired after there had been searches. It could be just a mere coincidence. Or maybe perhaps someone was close and or in the area where she may be.
I don't know for sure of course, for I am just speculating.

But I have wondered if attorneys would have been hired early on, if they knew it would be many months afterwards with no answer.
Or had/has the hiring of attorneys early on caused this case to go on for many months and LS whereabouts still unknown.?
Or it could have been that LE was just getting to close for comfort.
Such as asking for poly tests from POI.
​
 
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