IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

plaidmom said:

I've always questioned JR's 4:30 a.m. last sighting. And I've wondered why it's been so patently accepted (?) as The Truth both here, on other sites, and by LE (or are they just playing along?).

For me, the last confirmed sighting of LS, if LE is being honest and straight-up, is at 2:51 on the video as she exits the alley. Anything after that is fair game and open for discussion.

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On the map the 4:30 time is labeled as "verbal." The problem as I see it is this time reference became part of the vernacular, if you will, of this case.

cluciano63 said:

Almost every person who is missing probably had someone commit the "perfect crime"...whether they are smart, stupid, or just lucky. I don't think it is as hard to get rid of a body where it won't be found as we would like to think. Sometimes they are eventually found, and sometimes, they never are. Sometimes they are found years later, in an area that was already searched, i.e. Molly Bish. They just don't take up that much space...

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I agree with what you are saying. Sadly, even with all the advanced technology available to solve crimes in this day and age, without a body, witnesses, or much evidence to go on there is only so much LE can do. People can vanish without much of a trace left behind. So many of these cases are eerily similar because there just isn't much to go on. In some ways this case reminds me of the Paige Johnson case, which isn't looking good either. Someone knows something, but isn't willing to talk.

I had high hopes a few weeks ago when the the Spierer's said they were "pleased" with how LE was handling the case. I realize this statement was mainly to quiet the possibility of a protest in front of of LE but for some reason I had the impression that there was progress or news. That may still be true. I hope this long stretch of silence does not portend the future.

webrocket said:

LE really does not try to clear anyone. they assumed the boys were involved and assumed one would crack early on. I guess they were wrong on both asumptions much to the dismay of her family.

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I guess my word choice was incorrect, but I do think LE would be stupid NOT to look at the pack of men (some near strangers) that surrounded her that night. I won't critique them for searching apartments, getting statements, etc. I don't think they completely rejected other options either. They seemed to be considering random abduction at various times (silver truck, interviewing random witnesses or people on the street, etc).

I don't know-I just don't feel like they have been massively incompetent here. The family also seems extremely supportive of them-much more than other cases where family has literally broken from LE. The only thing that has seemed off to me about this whole thing is the slow or possibly incomplete or not even done searches of dumpsters and landfills.


I have always doubted the 430 time, but doubting the 430 time makes me doubt JR. I personally cannot come up with a scenario that would lead JR to make lie after lie about that night with Lauren, except still remain completely innocent and ignorant of what happened to her that night. Even if he kicked her out, I cannot see him randomly lying in ways that could be easily proven incorrect.

Melvin said:

From the 5 North kids, MB is the only one we know to claim sobriety. I don't think he was involved. Also it's important to note that JW was most likely not intoxicated since he stayed in. I agree that whoever did this was most likely not f'd up bc they would've left evidence.

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I don't think it's safe to assume that staying in meant that JW wasn't drinking/smoking pot/doing coke or whatever else is popular with his crowd. He was watching a game and he had roommates. My experience in college was that you could go to a party, or a party could come to you. Usually it was one or the other if you were reasonably social, especially if sports watching was involved.

Jupiter812 said:

I had high hopes a few weeks ago when the the Spierer's said they were "pleased" with how LE was handling the case. I realize this statement was mainly to quiet the possibility of a protest in front of of LE but for some reason I had the impression that there was progress or news. That may still be true. I hope this long stretch of silence does not portend the future.

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I have to believe that if the Spierer's were becoming disillusioned with the LE progress, they would be verbal about that. And, their recent quiet has to mean something.... but what??

Can someone remind me why LE hasn't searched the landfill?

Rallihanna said:

Can someone remind me why LE hasn't searched the landfill?

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What I heard was that it would be very dangerous and difficult. I think that is the official story from them. But, others here have said that they can section off areas of garbage so they wouldn't have to search the ENTIRE landfill and that they have ways of not making it that dangerous. So...I don't know. I don't know if there were real reasons not to search or if they made a bad mistake/misjudgment.

webrocket said:

even throwing a body in a dumpster has its risks of 1. being seen by someone else and 2. forensic evidence on the body and the perp

had LE done the basics and checked dumpsters, abandoned buildings, storm drains and the like from the outset we would not be having this conversation.

instead LE focused on the students (and I mean more than just some basic questioning) because they assumed or did not want to believe this was done by a stranger. so of course the students backed off.

I would hope they would have checked the dumpsters any way in case there were boiy fluids. even with that some degrade with time so all that grandstanding got them nowhere.

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There was a report that a cadaber dog hit in and by a dumpster. Now wouldn't that tip off LE to search the landfills a little earlier? Garbage pick up was early Friday, at least in the areas of concern, which was what I learned from reading these threads. Now I could be wrong...

Darcyline said:

<znipped>

I don't know-I just don't feel like they have been massively incompetent here. The family also seems extremely supportive of them-much more than other cases where family has literally broken from LE. The only thing that has seemed off to me about this whole thing is the slow or possibly incomplete or not even done searches of dumpsters and landfills.


I have always doubted the 430 time, but doubting the 430 time makes me doubt JR. I personally cannot come up with a scenario that would lead JR to make lie after lie about that night with Lauren, except still remain completely innocent and ignorant of what happened to her that night. Even if he kicked her out, I cannot see him randomly lying in ways that could be easily proven incorrect.

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Btown I think it was said many weeks ago that the ground searches in the city were thorough in checking the dumpsters. At the onset LE must have been going on leads and tips in their search of the forests and lakes as places familiar to the POI. They were so focused on the ground they had aerial flyovers, even drones. It certainly was a significant effort. Thing is she could still be out there.

Always curious posted a scenario yesterday how HT could have fed JR his answers.

Rallihanna said:

Can someone remind me why LE hasn't searched the landfill?

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In addition to what Darcyline said there is a question as to whether the judge signed the warrant. The best explanation I read about this is by a poster on Tony gatto--an older post.

I have heard so many conflicting things about dumpsters and landfills that it is still a bit of a question mark for me. I do trust Btown/our locals though so if they definitely say all dumpsters were searched thoroughly than I believe them. I never thought I would be seriously considered timelines, legalities, and methods of searching dumpsters and landfills or that it would be so complicated!

I do think some of HT's information may be...interpretative rather than fact-based (I would rather hear it from JR/CR/MB/whoever else, you know?) but I have difficulties thinking she was some mastermind that coordinated stories between CR, MB, and JR and JR's visitor (if he exists Did we ever confirm 100% he DID have a visitor staying with him?). But then again maybe seriously every guy DID do tons of xanax so none of them remember anything and, for some reason, they let her create the story instead of a lawyer?

bloom54 said:

I have to believe that if the Spierer's were becoming disillusioned with the LE progress, they would be verbal about that. And, their recent quiet has to mean something.... but what??

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I could be wrong but i don't think it's their style to publicly disapprove of LE. Yet I'll bet there are moments when they'd like to, but overall they don't seem to.

I'm thinking they might be gearing up with a communications plan for the opening of the semester.

Darcyline said:

I have heard so many conflicting things about dumpsters and landfills that it is still a bit of a question mark for me. I do trust Btown/our locals though so if they definitely say all dumpsters were searched thoroughly than I believe them. I never thought I would be seriously considered timelines, legalities, and methods of searching dumpsters and landfills or that it would be so complicated!

I do think some of HT's information may be...interpretative rather than fact-based (I would rather hear it from JR/CR/MB/whoever else, you know?) but I have difficulties thinking she was some mastermind that coordinated stories between CR, MB, and JR and JR's visitor (if he exists Did we ever confirm 100% he DID have a visitor staying with him?). But then again maybe seriously every guy DID do tons of xanax so none of them remember anything and, for some reason, they let her create the story instead of a lawyer?

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After seeing how HT represented herself and her circle of friends in the media storm at the beginning of the case I can totally see her coordinating their responses. But also she probably did t know the seriousness of it at the time.

I don't think these kids could conspire to keep a story straight, but maybe I'm wrong. Does this scenario make any sense?

Maybe everything happened as the POI's said, with perhaps some paraphrasing to make things seem more innocent early on--
LS helped a staggering CR home. That sounds better than they were both drunk/out of it and could barely walk as they made their way up the alley.

MB put CR to bed sounds better than CR stumbled into the apt. and passed out.

MB said LS asked him if he wanted to party. That sounds better than let's go do some coke/Xanax at JR's.

Perhaps LS went to JR's and JR subsequently passed out or had a Xanax memory loss. Maybe he saw LS with one of his visitors, maybe DR or the DD was there, who knows?

For those who might know, if you are on Xanax, is it possible to recall that something bad might have happened but you are unable to recall the details? Maybe you have a sense of dread or fear that something bad happened, but you can't quite remember what it was?

So, JR comes to, realizes that LS is gone, calls DR to see if he knows where she is (or if he left with her?). What if JR heard something, has an inkling, but is afraid to know for sure?

Or maybe the DD was at JR's, and JR passed out, then heard something as he was coming to, knows it was something terrible, but is afraid to say anything or is afraid to find out what the DD did. Maybe the call to DR was a panic call, I can hear DD doing something to LS, what should I do? Or the DD entered the room as JR was calling DR.

Or the DD brought the new stuff earlier in the evening, and was still there when LS returned. Maybe she did have a bad reaction to the drugs, and the DD did not want fingers pointing at him. Maybe JR was able to pass the lie detector test since he really doesn't know what the DD did, he just knows it was very bad.

So, perhaps HT, JR and maybe even DR know that LS had a bad reaction (per HT, she liked to party, this time she went too far), but they don't know what happened after that. Maybe the DD took her out of the apt., (put her in a dumpster?), took JR's phone with him, made the call that pinged from Martinsvlle at 4:15 to make it seem that LS was still alive, then drove back to Bloomington and did not tell JR what happened to LS but did tell him that "LS called DR at 4:15."

Also, when LE first mentioned the white truck, they said there was a car that interested them. Then they followed up on the truck and we never heard about the car again.

Sorry about the rambling.

If that is true, the case will crack soon. One inexperienced girl creating an elaborate, extremely detailed story that at least 4 people have to keep straight despite it not being their own story and them having no recollection of it=easy to break apart. Perhaps LE already has.

I know this has been discussed before, but what is the likelihood that the POI's and some of LS's other friends will return to IU for fall semester?

Carmen-That theory actually lays it out better or more clearly to me when trying to think about possible drug use and half-truths and possible manipulating of facts. I was thinking more dramatically when considering that scenario when a middle ground makes more sense. I am confused why one of them would drive to Martinsville to make the call though since Lauren wouldn't be out that way. Honestly, that ping (if true) makes me extremely suspicious.

I am guessing a lot of them will return, but I know CR didn't complete classes he enrolled in this summer and I have heard that JR has not registered for Fall. Of course, I believe both of these were "insider source" information bits so...

I would assume most minor players would come back. I am curious to see if JR/CR show back up.

Darcyline said:

If that is true, the case will crack soon. One inexperienced girl creating an elaborate, extremely detailed story that at least 4 people have to keep straight despite it not being their own story and them having no recollection of it=easy to break apart. Perhaps LE already has.

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Point I'm trying to make is I don't think she should be underestimated for having a bigger role or voice. I don't think she or any of them is a mastermind or came up with an elaborate scheme. Lucky perhaps.

If some of these kids come back, perhaps they will party some night and their tongues will loosen and they will confide to someone what happened. We can only hope.