UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #4

passionflower said:

I doubt if he will go back to the spot again............JMOO

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what i am getting at is that the cops want him to feel like he is not being followed...i think it would be stupid for him to go any place that would prove to be incriminating, BUT jp is not exactly brilliant either, lol! and if he thought he needed to move her or something he would have to go back...because what if where le has been searching is where he put her? i think he might go back to move the evidence...moo

nervous_nellie said:

what i am getting at is that the cops want him to feel like he is not being followed...i think it would be stupid for him to go any place that would prove to be incriminating, BUT jp is not exactly brilliant either, lol! and if he thought he needed to move her or something he would have to go back...because what if where le has been searching is where he put her? i think he might go back to move the evidence...moo

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or are we way off track.......could he of gone to see an internet girl friend??
I doubt if Susan and he were living as man and wife so to speak, trouble for a year........I sorta think there could be a GF.
Susan was not allowed to use HIS computer IIRC.
WHY?
GF???
Did he take the kids in the rental car or leave them with his sister that 24 hours? What time did he leave? and come back?

nervous_nellie said:

thanx for finding this link ck...this article mentions the bank account and said that she was poised to leave or return to washington...but none of the articles tells us WHEN any of this occurred, just that she decided to stay and work it out. if we knew when any of this happened it might help in exposing whether or not this was planned out or not. i wonder if she chose to stay only because he agreed to counseling? and if so could this be a result of trying to use marital counseling in a domestic violence situation, or in other words it some how agitated jp into becoming more aggressive/violent than he had previously been? omega, maybe you can answer this?? im not at all excusing jp - NOT AT ALL. also another thought was if jp had started taking any antidepressants that he could try and use that excuse for his behavior???

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I do not think Josh would medicate as I believe he thinks there is nothing wrong with Josh...

I do believe that if someone suggested marital counseling to them, I would pray they went to a licensed counselor (LPC or LCSW) and not a "marital counselor" as a marital counselor does not have the education or experience to identify psychological disorders.

What I am afraid may have happened is that Susan mentioned counseling (knowing SOMETHING was wrong) and someone else may have given her the name of an LDS Family Services unexperienced individual that did no more good than a psychic healer. Sorry but I am so against unprofessional people delving into matters they don't belong. Of course, maybe that didn't happen. Maybe Susan did start out with a marital counselor and they recognized that this was not their expertise and referred her on to an abuse counselor. Susan would have made her own decisions and choices with a professional counselor. They will not tell someone what to do, only give them resources and help to make up their own minds and give them back the power to make their own decisions. One of the first things a counselor will give an abused (or suspected abused) woman is the book, Why Does He Do That, Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft. If after reading that, the woman's head starts ringing recognition, then she's probably being abused. Even we as a group and her family and friends figured out she was being abused in less than two weeks. Couldn't a counselor figure that out as well??

One note I need to add is in my Stake there is a Marital Counselor whose education is that he has a Masters in Business Administration (MBA) and his career was in accounting fraud with the government yet he is a member of the Mormon Counselors Association starting a new career. He's probably well into his 60s so many people think he's done this all his life. He's one of the most narcissistic individuals in our Stake according to a licensed professional that knows him. In my state it is very easy to get a "marital counseling" certificate if you have a master's degree in anything. Of course, marital counseling IS NOT psychological counseling. There is a huge difference between the two.

Josh's previous camping trip could have been a cover story for scoping out, or even preparing, a good place to hide a body.

I believe he had been thinking about how to get rid of Susan for quite awhile. He just didn't think far enough past the dumping of the body. He is not a very good judge of what others are likely to do, such as the babysitter reporting them missing. That wasn't in his plan, and the early involvement of LE caught him unprepared. He planned a murder without planning for the random circumstances which change, such as weather, or daily expected routines.

SusanB said:

I just saw the case on Jane V-M. The friend Jovanna was on, and said Susan never gave any indication that they were having problems. she painted a pretty picture of the last night when she was over there crocheting. She obviously is on the side of Josh - she said he was soooo nice to her that night, put a blanket on her cause she was cold, cooked a nice dinner for her, cleaned up the dishes, and even made it a point to say "he cleaned up a spill from dinner that was on the floor." Weird remark - I think she was trying to elude about the wet carpet/fans.

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(above respectfully 'snipped' and bolded by smart blonde)

I can't help it... this woman gets my 'hinky meter' up like no other! Does anyone else get the feeling, that at the very least, this woman may have a 'crush' on Josh?

Suddenly, it looks like Josh even has an 'alibi' for the fans on the floor.

Is it possible JoVonna was jealous of Susan?

This is Websleuths, the world's best crime-sleuthing website (imo), so I know my fellow posters will understand that the following is simply not-well-thought-out SPECULATION on my part, but, here goes...

What if.... (just speculating here)... JoVonna knew Josh was going sledding with the boys, because he told JoVonna that himself. After he left, JoVonna did something to Susan herself? With Susan 'out of the way', in her fantasy, she is set to take Susan's place. When Josh returns, he finds Susan either missing or murdered. If he finds her murdered, he correctly believes everyone will blame him for the murder, so he takes the boys, and Susan's body, to dispose of the body? The rest plays out just the way we think it has.

passionflower said:

or are we way off track.......could he of gone to see an internet girl friend??
I doubt if Susan and he were living as man and wife so to speak, trouble for a year........I sorta think there could be a GF.
Susan was not allowed to use HIS computer IIRC.
WHY?
GF???
Did he take the kids in the rental car or leave them with his sister that 24 hours? What time did he leave? and come back?

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yep, i agree with you on that too. it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few days. i think we are going to see a bunch of stuff. the friends are already coming out with the "truth" rather than all that "dont want to say anything bad about anyone" bs. i also dont think he wanted susan on the pc because she would be able to communicate with people and gain knowledge...both are frowned on by josh - he should have joined the taliban since that is how they treat their women, huh?

One friend confirmed that in one of the e-mails, Susan Powell said she was afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys, divorce her or worse

Katie O'Connell has been found safe.... cannot wait to hear HER story. I wish the same could be said for Susan...

smart blonde said:

(above respectfully 'snipped' and bolded by smart blonde)

I can't help it... this woman gets my 'hinky meter' up like no other! Does anyone else get the feeling, that at the very least, this woman may have a 'crush' on Josh?

Suddenly, it looks like Josh even has an 'alibi' for the fans on the floor.

Is it possible JoVonna was jealous of Susan?

This is Websleuths, the world's best crime-sleuthing website (imo), so I know my fellow posters will understand that the following is simply not-well-thought-out SPECULATION on my part, but, here goes...

What if.... (just speculating here)... JoVonna knew Josh was going sledding with the boys, because he told JoVonna that himself. After he left, JoVonna did something to Susan herself? With Susan 'out of the way', in her fantasy, she is set to take Susan's place. When Josh returns, he finds Susan either missing or murdered. If he finds her murdered, he correctly believes everyone will blame him for the murder, so he takes the boys, and Susan's body, to dispose of the body? The rest plays out just the way we think it has.

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IMO, JoVonna didn't do the dirty deed but she sure is on Josh's side and why?
Is she the GF??? I know it is stated she is older and has 7 children, but
is she married? Josh treated her well, why??? a blanket on her, she was cold?
His wife laid down sick? Would like to know more about this woman, after all she was one of the 2 people to last see Susan ALIVE..........

You have to watch Joy Behar to see it, but they are covering the rental car now.

lemonmoussetart said:

You have to watch Joy Behar to see it, but they are covering the rental car now.

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I'm not near a television... can anyone narrate, please?

JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????

Josh OBVIOUSLY did not want to meet the set goals within the LDS church that they married. This is making more sense bit by bit. So what could have happened that weekend that set him off... like I am done with this woman and this church and I am getting rid of her and taking my sons (((just thoughts!))))

But really, after learning what we know this could have been possible.

did any confrontations happen at the church during that morning prayer breakfast or did that just set him off to do what he plannned?????

I am thinking it just set him off in a senseless direction to do what he planned. imoo at this point

passionflower said:

JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????

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I don't believe she did. Today is the first time I've heard that.

lemonmoussetart said:

You have to watch Joy Behar to see it, but they are covering the rental car now.

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not near a TV right now.......did NG or JVM say anything tonight on their shows???

passionflower said:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580882,00.html

Just got home, was this discussed yet? Susan had planned everything to leave Josh
for OVER A YEAR!!!!

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After reading all the information on this case I believe that Josh is the person responsible for Susan's disappearance. This seems to be a another classic example of Domestic Violence taken to the extreme.

This statement from: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705353467/E-mails-sent-by-Powell-turned-over.html sounds way too familiar.

"She'd talk about how she was debating about how she should get divorced. But she wanted to give him a chance to change to how he was when they first met. She said if they tried counseling, she'd give him another chance," a friend said, but added, "I don't know if anything was really changing."

Having been married to an abusive Ex, I can tell you that even with intense counseling very, very few abusers ever change, although they are capable of putting on a front of doing so for an extended period of time. IIRC my DV counselor told me that the success rate for permanent change for an abuser following Domestic Violence/Anger management counseling was around 3%. My ex was able to put on that "changed" front for a year and was even good enough to have fooled his two professional DV/AM psychologists that were treating him....until it all fell apart.

I can't help but wonder what the final argument was about. I read that he was upset with her Christmas spending for the boys and his mention of the "new generator" makes me think that perhaps it may have started over money. Even a small generator is not cheap and buying one right before Christmas when finances may already have been strained seems a little "off" to me. He controlled the money and the spending but was obviously not very good at it since they were so deeply in debt that he had to declare Bankruptcy not too long ago. I would be willing to bet that there were frequent arguments over "his" spending. He has already begun moving some things out of their house saying that he won't be able to keep up the payments now. I wonder if they were on the verge of foreclosure? Did their argument lead to Susan telling him that she was leaving with the boys and wanted a divorce? I hope not since that would have been a major "trigger" for him.

I wish we knew more about the "marriage counseling" that they had received. Were they being counseled by someone that specialized in Domestic Violence or not? I would like to know why the neighbor called the police on Josh. Was he physically violent and abusing Susan? So many questions and so few answers the biggest of which is "where is Susan"?

I was one of the lucky ones that managed to escape with my life, I just wish that Susan had been as lucky.

passionflower said:

JoVonna never said anything about a spill on the floor before, did she????

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not that I have heard of! just pancake and egg breakfast and crocheting in the living room, and than Susan begs off saying she is tired and AFTER she is in bed Josh mentions the sledding.

Hi...yup...JoVanna is an odd one IMHO

she seems like she might be an old meddler, who is somehow on Josh's "side" and can't give up her rose colored glasses when she thinks of the "dear boy"

that "cleaned up a spill" is just weird...were they all eating dinner in the bedroom or what?? She just NOW remembers this?

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I also remember JoVanna was praising Josh soooo much on his (iffy) real estate website

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the "divorce" declaration comes as NO surprise to me...I posted that as my "reason" right away, as I usually always try to figure out the most "simple" explanation....and 9 times out of 10 that is it...
marital troubles...control....money troubles

but the "end game" comes into play when the woman makes her move....when she finally tells the jerk she is done, wants out...goodbye

Oh if ONLY only women would get a plan, gather the forces of friends/family around them...or get out on the sly or whatever....this is just a sad repeat repeat repeat

is JoVonna a devoted Mormon? like Susan or more like Josh?