17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

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"The day after, he went into his job to let them know what was going on," said Oliver, who has spoken to Zimmerman at least twice since the shooting. "That is the last I know of anyone seeing George."

http://my.news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-world-heard-cries-032755828.html

That is the first time that I have ever heard of anyone actually seeing Zimmerman, other than LE, after the shooting. If this story is true then I would expect Zimmerman's boss to be called at the trial.



:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


Now I use the above "head-banger" icon for a reason...GZ was a VERY busy man in the hours after his severe PTSD and "close to diapers & spoonfeeding" incident, as the shooting death of Trayvon has been described by folks SPEAKING FOR George. IIRC, he's released from the police station and ventures homeward, then SOMETIME during business hours (see article above) he chats with boss.
AND it has been claimed that he ALSO received medical attention (no link, RZ & RZ,Jr.'s comments discussed ad nauseaum) SOMETIME during the SAME 24 hour period. JMO, but if he were at a large municipal ER/ED, COUNT on an extended wait "for service" UNLESS he used "red-flag" terminology (nope, I will NOT comment!).
AND he & the Mrs. packed up & "Zimmerman and his wife moved out of the townhouse they rented in the Twin Lakes complex almost immediately, Oliver said" (see link in Tori's comment).

:moo: Sorry folks but IMHO as SOMEONE who HAS BEEN diagnosed & treated professionally for injuries that occurred in the manner (got "decked" by a family member who didn't like my courtroom testimony in a child abuse/homicide case!) as described by GZ, ability to carry off all of those behaviors above isn't present WITHOUT some wicked bad nausea, headache(s)!, sensitivity to motion (like moving one's head!) & light, vomiting from the swallowed blood, "wooziness" and some fantastic "air walking" from the pain meds!
OH YEAH, as an afterthought..........the responding EMT/paramedics DID NOT "clean & polish or iron" my damaged/bloody/soiled crisp white blouse & business suit~getting pummeled on cement isn't good for clothing fibers, pantyhose or leather heels, either!
AGAIN, stated as my humble opinion (IMHO) & experience (JME), no link 'cause the perp pled guilty to a misdemeanor. :what::what::what:

:maddening: SO....GZ's "team" should have/better have/ought to have some hardcore, hardcopy documents to bolster his story....and I do not want to see a "doctored" x-ray/MRI/CATor PETscan nor "modified" HCP chart notes. :rocker:
 
And I'm wondering what this has to do with anything since it would not have changed the outcome of Trayvon ending up dead. The girl has no superpowers.

Some people seem to be inferring that because this girl did not call 911 right away or anyone else, as far as we can tell, she either heard Trayvon being aggressive and starting a fight and thus had no reason to call for help since he was the aggressor, or, she really heard nothing of significance and thus had no reason to be alarmed.

They appear to be inferring that because she did not apparently call for help right away, she is lying. Either because of community pressure or love or whatever.

I think that's b.s.

Someone asked why else she would not have called 911 or asked for help right away. I have given what I thought were solid reasons and others have as well, so I will not repeat here.

From the old thread:

Karmady said:
So which exception do you think applies. They are rather limited. Impending death, maybe? But he would have had to believe that death was imminent at the time the statement was made?

Idk, I think there are exceptions that may apply, but I'm not sure the unavailable declarant is the most likely one, especially since the last exception is significantly different than the Feds, iirc.

I'm headed for bed in a few, but want to thank you again for your professional opinion. Merci!

I did not see your question earlier. Sorry! Trayvon's statements as relayed by his girlfriend would come in under 90.804 (1) (d): Is unable to be present or to testify at the hearing because of death or because of then-existing physical or mental illness or infirmity; BBM.
http://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2011/90.804

This is not a federal rule, it's a state rule. It is also not a dying declaration exception, which is different. It is a declarant unavailable (due to death) exception. Dying declaration is someone's last words which is an alternate exception in some states where the "declarant unavailable" exception does not exist. Both are used in Florida.

Trayvon's statements to his girlfriend come in.
 
I was under the impression that the no snitch was in line with those of the drug world. So I guess I am to understand that the girlfriend would not call LE when it is possible that her boyfriend could need help or is hurt. Am I out of line to think that she doesn't call LE because her boyfriend may walk away and leave someone else on the ground. All hypothetical of course. jmo

The "no snitching" code is for those involved in criminal activity or in a situation where there is a high possibility of retaliation if it's found out that you told the police something.

That unwritten rule is pretty much squashed when it hits close to home. A person losing a loved one is expected to retaliate or want justice.

Organized crime families such as the Mafia, street gangs, everybody in prison, and most street criminals of all ethnicities would probably abide by that.

It's not just Black kids or teens as someone suggested upthread. And it would not apply in a situation where a loved one is hurt or dying and calling 911 would save them.
 
For those judging this 16 year old girl and her actions after Trayvon's murder, I want to share a personal story.

I was dating someone a few years ago and one night he called me and told me that he had just killed his ex gf. We spoke for a few minutes and then he ended the call. I was in so much shock that I sat home alone for HOURS in silence. I had no idea what to do. It wasn't until I saw on the news later in the afternoon that he had ultimately killed himself that I managed to call my sister. I could have called the police after my phone call with him ended and I did not. I literally did not know what to do. Maybe if I had called the police they could have found him before he killed himself? I didn't know he was going to kill himself.

I was 29 years old at the time. An adult. I take great offense to those judging this 16 year olds actions when we don't know what she did or did not do after that phone call dropped.

MOO

oh how terrible for you :hug:


I agree, trayvon's poor gf, she was worried I am sure but who ever, ever thinks something like this can really happen TO THEM or someone they LOVE?
 
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


Now I use the above "head-banger" icon for a reason...GZ was a VERY busy man in the hours after his severe PTSD and "close to diapers & spoonfeeding" incident, as the shooting death of Trayvon has been described by folks SPEAKING FOR George. IIRC, he's released from the police station and ventures homeward, then SOMETIME during business hours (see article above) he chats with boss.
AND it has been claimed that he ALSO received medical attention (no link, RZ & RZ,Jr.'s comments discussed ad nauseaum) SOMETIME during the SAME 24 hour period. JMO, but if he were at a large municipal ER/ED, COUNT on an extended wait "for service" UNLESS he used "red-flag" terminology (nope, I will NOT comment!).
AND he & the Mrs. packed up & "Zimmerman and his wife moved out of the townhouse they rented in the Twin Lakes complex almost immediately, Oliver said" (see link in Tori's comment).

:moo: Sorry folks but IMHO as SOMEONE who HAS BEEN diagnosed & treated professionally for injuries that occurred in the manner (got "decked" by a family member who didn't like my courtroom testimony in a child abuse/homicide case!) as described by GZ, ability to carry off all of those behaviors above isn't present WITHOUT some wicked bad nausea, headache(s)!, sensitivity to motion (like moving one's head!) & light, vomiting from the swallowed blood, "wooziness" and some fantastic "air walking" from the pain meds!
OH YEAH, as an afterthought..........the responding EMT/paramedics DID NOT "clean & polish or iron" my damaged/bloody/soiled crisp white blouse & business suit~getting pummeled on cement isn't good for clothing fibers, pantyhose or leather heels, either!
AGAIN, stated as my humble opinion (IMHO) & experience (JME), no link 'cause the perp pled guilty to a misdemeanor. :what::what::what:

:maddening: SO....GZ's "team" should have/better have/ought to have some hardcore, hardcopy documents to bolster his story....and I do not want to see a "doctored" x-ray/MRI/CATor PETscan nor "modified" HCP chart notes. :rocker:


:clap: :clap: :clap:

we've missed you!
 
"The day after, he went into his job to let them know what was going on," said Oliver, who has spoken to Zimmerman at least twice since the shooting. "That is the last I know of anyone seeing George."

http://my.news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-world-heard-cries-032755828.html

That is the first time that I have ever heard of anyone actually seeing Zimmerman, other than LE, after the shooting. If this story is true then I would expect Zimmerman's boss to be called at the trial.
But, this statement comes from Oliver. It's probably true, and if it is, the boss will be called as a witness at trial. I don't really believe everything Oliver has said.

Great article.
 
But, this statement comes from Oliver. It's probably true, and if it is, the boss will be called as a witness at trial. I don't really believe everything Oliver has said.

Great article.

Especially considering that it has been proven that Oliver was not a family friend of Zimmerman. Below is a link to one of the greatest interviews conducted regarding this case to the point (with the exception of anything from Sybrina and Tracy or their attorneys when Lawrence O'Donnell from MSNBC and Charles Blow from the NY Times proceeded to out Mr. Oliver on his relationship with Zimmerman. This stands as some of the best media ever.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/joe-oliver-the-last-word_n_1384419.html

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lawrence...liver-didnt-just-make-fireworks-it-made-news/

~jmo~
 
"The day after, he went into his job to let them know what was going on," said Oliver, who has spoken to Zimmerman at least twice since the shooting. "That is the last I know of anyone seeing George."

http://my.news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-world-heard-cries-032755828.html

That is the first time that I have ever heard of anyone actually seeing Zimmerman, other than LE, after the shooting. If this story is true then I would expect Zimmerman's boss to be called at the trial.

Thanks for this link. The article lays out the sequence of events before this became national news. It explains a lot.
JMO
 
This contradicts GZ's own 911 call.

I wonder if this is the statement he gave to police that night? If so it doesn't bode well for him, in my opinion.

If Trayvon had really gone up to his car, why didn't GZ just say he was part of Neighborhood Watch, that he didn't recognize him, ask if everything was ok?

JMHO

Yes. That's what Trayvon's dad says Detective Chris Serino repeated as the story GZ told authorities.

Also, if a 6ft guy is "on top of you" -- covering your mouth and pounding your head against the concrete -- how can you physically get your hands down under or around the big guy to pull out your gun?

Plus... If TM was covering GZ's mouth as part banging his head on the concrete, how could GZ scream for help w/ mouth covereed? Wouldn't the noises on 911 calls sound muffled, if audible at all?

Trayvon's dad say Det. Serino also said he had planned to interview GZ again. The detective didn't believe GZ and wanted to "catch him in a lie."

But Serino's higher-ups put a stop to that. There are big questions surrounding this decision. Which is why the Feds are looking at the SPD.
 
Hi friends!!!

Can someone point me in the direction of Trayvon's girlfriends' statements?

Do we have a copy of Angela Corey's (?) probable cause thing? My mind is having a brain fart right now and I can't think of what it's called? Nancy Grace was quoting excerpts from it last night.

Thanks!
 
Yes. That's what Trayvon's dad says Detective Chris Serino repeated as the story GZ told authorities.

Also, if a 6ft guy is "on top of you" -- covering your mouth and pounding your head against the concrete -- how can you physically get your hands down under or around the big guy to pull out your gun?

Plus... If TM was covering GZ's mouth as part banging his head on the concrete, how could GZ scream for help w/ mouth covereed? Wouldn't the noises on 911 calls sound muffled, if audible at all?

Trayvon's dad say Det. Serino also said he had planned to interview GZ again. The detective didn't believe GZ and wanted to "catch him in a lie."

But Serino's higher-ups put a stop to that. There are big questions surrounding this decision. Which is why the Feds are looking at the SPD.

And after Trayvon was pummeling GZ's head into the ground and GZ shoots him, how did Trayvon's body wind up face down in the opposite direction, with his head away from the sidewalk? Didn't witnesses report that immediately after hearing the shot, they saw Trayvon laying face down?

Hard to believe that in order to do CPR on him, they needed to turn his body over and then turn him in the opposite direction, so can't see that as being the reason.

JMHO
 
I have done extensive research on this issue of allegations that the girlfriend did not come forward for 3 weeks.

I'm going to post it and then, after talking to other moderators and Admins, it has been decided this issue has been discussed to infinity and beyond, and we need to move on.

The girlfriend is considered an innocent victim and thus she should only be discussed in terms of whether you believe her testimony or not. You have a right to discuss why you don't believe her testimony. But we are not going to allow wild theories without proof to back them up. These are the consistent rules for victims and this young girl is considered a victim.

If you read the links you will learn that she was represented by counsel to protect her interests soon after she learned she was the last person to talk to Trayvon before he was murdered.

(1) The records of the phone calls I'm going to post are not Travon's but the girlfriends. If you listen to the taped interview, ABC made a statement that they exclusively got the call logs, that police had them, but never called the girlfriend. They vetted the girlfriend's call logs before running the story on 3/21.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T4nZBdl0nWB

(2) Next I went looking for information about the funeral. There really is little out there because remember this case didn't take off in the news until about the second week, but more so the third week in March when everyone was resigning and the media started really delving into this case.

After not finding anything else I went to Isabelle Zehnder who is a friend of WS and her articles in the Examiner are allowed. I should have gone there first, but at 4am I wasn't very sharp. :lol:

I found the following:
Snip:

Trayvon’s girlfriend, who is a minor and whose name will not be released, learned the day after Trayvon’s wake that she was the last person, other than his killer, to speak with him alive.

Another snip:

"Trayvon's girlfriend just wants justice, period. She was extremely fearful of the Sanford Police Department and was scared of retaliation for cooperating with the investigators.

“Her mother is very protective of her and will make sure she is safe. It's tragic that this teenager's life has now been changed forever, and the innocence of her youth is essentially gone."

This is all in the story with quotes from Radar on-line who broke the story.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/trayvon-martin-s-girlfriend-hospitalized

Now, still not being able to find anything about the date of the funeral I began listening to the funeral director talk about lack of injuries pointing to him saying the struggle doesn't add up. I watched videos rather than rely on the typed word. I got Lucky.

At approx 1:47 in the video posted at the link below(go full screen) there is a quick scan of the memorial folder used for Trayvon's Memorial Service. I believe the date is the 3rd, but it could be an 8 also. Trayvon's service would have been on one of those two dates. The date is at the bottom of the Memorial Folder for his service. Maybe someone with better eyes can zoom in on it and capture the date. :)

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29/funeral-director-no-signs-of-scuffle-on-trayvon-martins-body/

Remember now what we are told in the Examiner Article.... The girlfriend found out the day after the visitation. So that puts it in the first week of March less than a week from Trayvon's death, if the March 3rd date is correct. It would also point to the phone records being hers and her calling the Sanford Police on March 2, 2012.
 
I have done extensive research on this issue of allegations that the girlfriend did not come forward for 3 weeks.

I'm going to post it and then, after talking to other moderators and Admins, it has been decided this issue has been discussed to infinity and beyond, and we need to move on.

The girlfriend is considered an innocent victim and thus she should only be discussed in terms of whether you believe her testimony or not. You have a right to discuss why you don't believe her testimony. But we are not going to allow wild theories without proof to back them up. These are the consistent rules for victims and this young girl is considered a victim.

If you read the links you will learn that she was represented by counsel to protect her interests soon after she learned she was the last person to talk to Trayvon before he was murdered.

(1) The records of the phone calls I'm going to post are not Travon's but the girlfriends. If you listen to the taped interview, ABC made a statement that they exclusively got the call logs, that police had them, but never called the girlfriend. They vetted the girlfriend's call logs before running the story on 3/21.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T4nZBdl0nWB

(2) Next I went looking for information about the funeral. There really is little out there because remember this case didn't take off in the news until about the second week, but more so the third week in March when everyone was resigning and the media started really delving into this case.

After not finding anything else I went to Isabelle Zehnder who is a friend of WS and her articles in the Examiner are allowed. I should have gone there first, but at 4am I wasn't very sharp. :lol:

I found the following:
Snip:

Trayvon’s girlfriend, who is a minor and whose name will not be released, learned the day after Trayvon’s wake that she was the last person, other than his killer, to speak with him alive.

Another snip:

"Trayvon's girlfriend just wants justice, period. She was extremely fearful of the Sanford Police Department and was scared of retaliation for cooperating with the investigators.

“Her mother is very protective of her and will make sure she is safe. It's tragic that this teenager's life has now been changed forever, and the innocence of her youth is essentially gone."

This is all in the story with quotes from Radar on-line who broke the story.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/trayvon-martin-s-girlfriend-hospitalized

Now, still not being able to find anything about the date of the funeral I began listening to the funeral director talk about lack of injuries pointing to him saying the struggle doesn't add up. I watched videos rather than rely on the typed word. I got Lucky.

At approx 1:47 in the video posted at the link below(go full screen) there is a quick scan of the memorial folder used for Trayvon's Memorial Service. I believe the date is the 3rd, but it could be an 8 also. Trayvon's service would have been on one of those two dates. The date is at the bottom of the Memorial Folder for his service. Maybe someone with better eyes can zoom in on it and capture the date. :)

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29/funeral-director-no-signs-of-scuffle-on-trayvon-martins-body/

Remember now what we are told in the Examiner Article.... The girlfriend found out the day after the visitation. So that puts it in the first week of March less than a week from Trayvon's death, if the March 3rd date is correct. It would also point to the phone records being hers and her calling the Sanford Police on March 2, 2012.

Thank you so much grandmaj for all the time and effort that you put into this to provide us the correct information. Your hard work is definitely appreciated and hopefully this will clear up any misconceptions out there about this poor little girl.



~jmo~
 
Hi friends!!!

Can someone point me in the direction of Trayvon's girlfriends' statements?

Do we have a copy of Angela Corey's (?) probable cause thing? My mind is having a brain fart right now and I can't think of what it's called? Nancy Grace was quoting excerpts from it last night.

Thanks!

no farting* :floorlaugh:

Trayvon's girlfriend hasn't given a statement that has been released to the public. AFAIK

Probable cause thingy

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/12/us/13shooter-document.html


*sorry I hang out with an 8 year old who loves the word fart. LOL
 
No, she couldn't have affected the outcome.

But I believe this paints kind of a different picture of what actually was going on - what Trayvon was telling her, and the brief conversation she overheard.

As she tells the story, any girlfriend would have been in a terror panic after hearing that. The fact that she didn't react like a girl terrified for the safety of her boyfriend colors my perception of what actually took place, and what actually she overheard.

She is 15.

She was 250 miles away.

Cell phone calls get dropped everyday; it rarely means the other party has been a victim of a crime, much less murdered.

Last I heard, she didn't hear the gun shot. She merely heard a brief exchange of two mildly confrontational questions along the lines of "What are you doing here?"

Her boyfriend was two years older than she and over six feet tall.

We don't know whether she had phone numbers for Trayvon's mother or father, or anybody else in his family.

IIRC she called Trayvon back and got no answer. We don't know whether she tried any other way to reach him.

But even assuming she did nothing but leave a message or text and wait for him to call back, it's ridiculous to inflate a 15-year-old's inaction into proof that her boyfriend was doing something suspicious.
 
From your link;



This is also similar to what GZ's father said that GZ told him.

This contradicts GZ's own 911 call.

I wonder if this is the statement he gave to police that night? If so it doesn't bode well for him, in my opinion.

If Trayvon had really gone up to his car, why didn't GZ just say he was part of Neighborhood Watch, that he didn't recognize him, ask if everything was ok?

JMHO

BBM - That is the one part of this that troubles me most about this incident and makes me believe that GZ had already profiled Trayvon and had no good intentions toward him.

If GZ was so proud of being 'captain' of the NW asso., why did he not identify himself? Seems he would have relished giving out that information to anybody he stopped to let them know he was 'in charge' of the neighborhood.

If GZ had just ID'd himself and acted as a real NW person should, this entire tragedy could have been avoided. Why, when Trayvon asked him why he was following him, did GZ not explain who he was and why he was doing so? What was so different about this night and the times he previously reported suspicious people?

IMO
 
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