GUILTY AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #6

Since I would bet my last nickel that the child didn't consider (or even know of) a possible financial gain through SS if he killed his father, I don't perceive benefits going to him as rewarding him for his behavior.

About Eryn - I have not read a lot about her. Am I correct that Eryn currently works outside of the home right now while the child's grandmother watches him?

Eryn remains something of a mystery to me. I do know she had just had visitation with her son prior to the murders and, IIRC, she did not high-tail it back to the child after the murders happened and the child was charged.

I have always wondered why the Father had primary physical custody and not her and have assumed, rightly or wrongly, that situations in her life at the time made her unable to fully care for him. Did she agree to the Father have custody of CR or did a Judge award custody to the Father against Eryn's wishes?

Linda, you opined that Eryn "never had a desire to support herself." What leads you to that conclusion?

colette said:

He for sure "laid in wait" for Tim to enter the door so he could shoot him as he called him into the home.

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I agree that the evidence seems to imply that Tim was killed to eliminate a witness. This, of course, is a very "cops and robbers" type notion for an 8-year-old boy. Do we know if he was exposed to a lot of that type of tv/video? I have wondered about the child's habits in regards to that.

colette said:

He for sure "laid in wait" for Tim to enter the door so he could shoot him as he called him into the home.

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It’s written somewhere ? so I like to know where, or it’s your opinion? As long it’s not written in any court document it’s not a fact and just a speculation! I couldn’t find any document where it’s written what exactly has happened.

trofanji said:

It’s written somewhere ? so I like to know where, or it’s your opinion? As long it’s not written in any court document it’s not a fact and just a speculation! I couldn’t find any document where it’s written what exactly has happened.

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Hey Trof,

I think it's fair to assume that unless links are provided, everything all of us post here is opinion and speculation based on the facts that we know!

My opinion that CR "laid in wait" for Tim to enter the house is based on the reported fact that he was outside on the phone with his wife and told her that the child was calling to him inside and that he needed to go respond to the child.

oceanblueeyes said:

Knowing that his own child lay in wait and murdered him in cold blood???:waitasec:

I think he would want anything but this. I think if he had his choice (which he wasn't given a choice) he would have wanted to live out his life just like everyone else has a right to do.

I don't think he would have wanted his kid to be rewarded for criminal behavior.

imo

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Maybe locking up all the guns/ammo and looking after an unattended child might have helped the situation some. Especially if there was a question of whether the boy could commit violence.

What would be the reason for the boy to premeditate the murder???
Is he just a 'bad egg' or was something going on there unknown to the public that has yet to be established?
Wonder why the step-mom wasn't at home and stayed away that afternoon?
Did she know of the paper the boy didn't have from school? Was the boy threatened? Did she call Vince and let him know the boy needed to be punished for not having the good-conduct paper? Did she tell the boy that he was going to be punished by the dad? Seems to be alot of questions of the why and how of that day that are still unknown.

*Probably some other reasons to not leave him unattended that have not been made public... yet.

How exactly has the child been 'rewarded' for criminal behavior? No school credits going on 2 years, can't go to public places, mom can't work, detention (of some sort) hanging over his head for soooo long, no dad, few friends, etc...
doesn't sound like any reward to me so far.

trofanji said:

It’s written somewhere ? so I like to know where, or it’s your opinion? As long it’s not written in any court document it’s not a fact and just a speculation! I couldn’t find any document where it’s written what exactly has happened.

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It is a fact the killer was heard calling Tim into the home. It is a fact that Tim was shot entering the home. The timeline puts the boy at the scene at the time of the murders. The confession says he is the killer.

You are never going to find a word for word explanation for every second of the murders, there is no video of the crimes.

colette said:

It is a fact the killer was heard calling Tim into the home. It is a fact that Tim was shot entering the home. The timeline puts the boy at the scene at the time of the murders. The confession says he is the killer.

You are never going to find a word for word explanation for every second of the murders, there is no video of the crimes.

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I think the confession itself didn't have a stand at trial ( I know there will be no trial) and was imo illegal, the ear witness could hear a woman's voice or any other kids voice also, it would sound similar through a telephone, the timeline says he could be there, but didn’t state that he was there, the fingerprints they find belongs to the boy because he was living in the house, so his fingerprints must be there, they didn't find very much gun residue on his clothes, the residue could come from everywhere even from a shooting, but they are hunting in the family. and at last all investigations stopped when the imo illegal confession end's. by the way, I think he did it (90%), but nobody can prove it beyond a shadow of doubt.
Did he get sweetheart deal, I personal think no, it will be a hard time for him on probation. With the standard of other justice systems in Europe or Canada he wouldn't have seen a jail nor a court because he was too young to understand court proceedings, if they used that common sense in St. Johns that would have save this little community a lot of money and the boy would always get therapies and proper education.
And to a other question at this board I think the negligence of the adults in his live was indeed premeditated, because they leave their weapons with munitions free accessible for an eight year old kid, who should have made death threads before. I personal don't think that he initial wanted to kill his dad, I think something went bad. IMO

trofanji said:

I think the confession itself didn't have a stand at trial ( I know there will be no trial) and was imo illegal, the ear witness could hear a woman's voice or any other kids voice also, it would sound similar through a telephone, the timeline says he could be there, but didn’t state that he was there, the fingerprints they find belongs to the boy because he was living in the house, so his fingerprints must be there, they didn't find very much gun residue on his clothes, the residue could come from everywhere even from a shooting, but they are hunting in the family. and at last all investigations stopped when the imo illegal confession end's. by the way, I think he did it (90%), but nobody can prove it beyond a shadow of doubt.
Did he get sweetheart deal, I personal think no, it will be a hard time for him on probation. With the standard of other justice systems in Europe or Canada he wouldn't have seen a jail nor a court because he was too young to understand court proceedings, if they used that common sense in St. Johns that would have save this little community a lot of money and the boy would always get therapies and proper education.
And to a other question at this board I think the negligence of the adults in his live was indeed premeditated, because they leave their weapons with munitions free accessible for an eight year old kid, who should have made death threads before. I personal don't think that he initial wanted to kill his dad, I think something went bad. IMO

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Whether the confession would have been allowed is really not relevant anymore. Just because there wasn't a trial doesn't mean it eradicates the one hour interview that has been seen. It is what it is and imo it is an interview with a very chatty kid who could tell very big lies with ease.

I guess if we went by your premises of "no one really knows" or "his fingerprints would be there because he lived in the home." then every murder that happens by someone who lived in the same home would never be convicted. There were no eye witnesses in this case which is very common in most cases and the vast majority of those cases end in guilty verdicts or plea deals regularly. In this case, like others, there was powerful circumstantial evidence that showed guilt, imo.

Imo the reason there wasn't more GSR particles found on his clothing is they did not even collect his clothing until the next day around noon after he had been consoled and hugged by family members while wearing the clothing and this powdery residue easily rubs off. Even then though 36 particles were found on the areas they tested and those areas were in places where he would have held the rifle. No GRS residue was found overall on his clothing even though he said he walked into a cloud of smoke where if true it would have been all over his clothing instead of the frontal areas.

Tim Romans called the boy by his name when he told his wife that he had to go that XXXXXXXXX was calling him.

This isn't Canada or Europe so what they would have done is really irrelevant to this case. I do believe he did get a sweetheart deal. This is the first case I have ever heard about in the US where someone committed premeditated double homicide unless they were deemed criminally insane and does no time for it. Not even in a detention center.

We have a right to bear arms in this country. Millions of children are around firearms every year. But no one has a right to murder another human being with hunting weapons meant only for small game hunting. I don't blame Vinnie for wanting to believe that his son was just going through a phase. No parent wants to seriously think their kid is really thinking about murdering them in cold blood imo.

I guess we could blame mothers for their own deaths too if they left their butcher knives on their kitchen counters and had a child pick it up and stab them through the heart or blame the parents if their child murdered them with a baseball bat they had bought and left laying around. I do not blame the victims. This was the sole actions of the perpetrator that held that weapon and fired it 10 times into two men who deserved to live as much as this boy does.

Strange though Vincent Romero had this gun since he was 8 years old when his mother gave it to him and in 21 years he never picked up that weapon and used it to harm another human being. He could be trusted to be safe and respect the rules concerning the weapon. However: his son could not and betrayed his father's trust that he had placed in him.

imo

Don't know if this has been posted yet:

St. Johns Boy's To Be Sentenced
10-Year-Old Boy Pleaded Guilty To Shooting, Killing Timothy Romans

http://www.kpho.com/news/22228187/detail.html

Cicada said:

Don't know if this has been posted yet:

St. Johns Boy's To Be Sentenced
10-Year-Old Boy Pleaded Guilty To Shooting, Killing Timothy Romans

http://www.kpho.com/news/22228187/detail.html

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Thank you.

I certainly hope this is true and he will be housed in a residential treatment facility away from St. Johns for an undetermined amount of time.

Although jail time at a county facility is an option Judge Monica Stauffer can consider, defense attorneys and prosecutors are expected to argue against it. They instead are pushing for the boy to be placed in a residential treatment program in Maricopa County for an undetermined amount of time.

about the motive.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/St-Johns-boy-to-be-sentenced-in-death-of-fathers-friend-81378282.html

http://www.azfamily.com/news/St-Johns-boy-to-be-sentenced-in-death-of-fathers-friend-81378282.html

abuse a factor in homicide
9pm mountain time

mrrogers said:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/St-Johns-boy-to-be-sentenced-in-death-of-fathers-friend-81378282.html

abuse a factor in homicide
9pm mountain time

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Thank you Mr Rogers, you beat me to it!

Yup, clearly the CHILD is too a VICTIM in all of this, I will wait patiently for the truth to start spilling out, thank GOD the boy will be getting the help he needs, I believe.

The judge can not order jail time, it does not allow for it in the plea agreement, as has been discussed ad nauseum...if the judge accepted the plea, WHICH HE DID, then BY LAW, the sentence must follow the provisions of the agreement! Hence the reason Roca was removed...

I would never bet my money on a reporter from Flagstaff to get the details right, OBE... The law is the law, no matter what a simple journalist wants to print.

It will be interesting to see if they state today that Tim Romans was abusing this boy or if he murdered him just because he was at the crime scene. After all this dispostion sentence is supposed to be about him killing Tim Romans. I have never seen another case where someone who was abused killed an outsider. So we will see if that is mentioned.

But I am very glad that he will be housed in an in house treatment facility away from Appache County. I have always felt this boy has grave mental issues that needs to be dealt with. No normal kid this age does what he did even if they were abused imo.


imo

oceanblueeyes said:

It will be interesting to see if they state today that Tim Romans was abusing this boy or if he murdered him just because he was at the crime scene. After all this dispostion sentence is supposed to be about him killing Tim Romans. I have never seen another case where someone who was abused killed an outsider. So we will see if that is mentioned.

But I am very glad that he will be housed in an in house treatment facility away from Appache County. I have always felt this boy has grave mental issues that needs to be dealt with. No normal kid this age does what he did even if they were abused imo.


imo

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I have never followed a plea bargain case through, of this type, I don't know what to expect at the disposition as far as that goes, and exactly what will be discussed, so much has been sealed, no evidence or such has been discussed openly.

You may be right about an outsider never having been killed by the abused, I don't know, so I will not speculate on that. But as well, we do not know that Tim was not at the very least aware of what was going on...he did live there, and with a possible motive or rational of "pervasive and both psychological and physical abuse" there was clearly more going on in the home than anyone in the "tight knit" community of St. Johns or the families of either man care to talk about.

You are right OBE, we both agree on the latter for sure! I know the boy is desperately in need of help. No child should ever be pushed to the breaking point that it seems this child was. It leads me to believe he must have lived in his own private hell.

azmama said:

I have never followed a plea bargain case through, of this type, I don't know what to expect at the disposition as far as that goes, and exactly what will be discussed, so much has been sealed, no evidence or such has been discussed openly.

You may be right about an outsider never having been killed by the abused, I don't know, so I will not speculate on that. But as well, we do not know that Tim was not at the very least aware of what was going on...he did live there, and with a possible motive or rational of "pervasive and both psychological and physical abuse" there was clearly more going on in the home than anyone in the "tight knit" community of St. Johns or the families of either man care to talk about.

You are right OBE, we both agree on the latter for sure! I know the boy is desperately in need of help. No child should ever be pushed to the breaking point that it seems this child was. It leads me to believe he must have lived in his own private hell.

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From what I have read Tim only had a room there during the week and returned to his family on the weekends. Since he worked long hours at the plant and was known to go down to the local bar to socialize often, I just don't see Tim being there that much and there is no evidence that I am aware of that Tim saw abuse while he was there.

In fact to me even with all of Tim's human frailties he seemed to love children imo.

So it is still a mystery why he killed Tim Romans unless that is cleared up in court today.

Sorry, I am not willing to lap up and believe what comes out of the mouth of a known double murderer and liar.

I hope his stay in the RTC is long, intense and a productive one.....for societies sake as much as his own.

oceanblueeyes said:

From what I have read Tim only had a room there during the week and returned to his family on the weekends. Since he worked long hours at the plant and was known to go down to the local bar to socialize often, I just don't see Tim being there that much and there is no evidence that I am aware of that Tim saw abuse while he was there.

In fact to me even with all of Tim's human frailties he seemed to love children imo.

So it is still a mystery why he killed Tim Romans unless that is cleared up in court today.

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All of the "information" you just posted about Tim is your ideal of him, you know NONE of it! He loved children??? Pffft, how do you know? There is no evidence that he did not see abuse either! So Tim was a saint, but an 8 year old child is a piece of garbage, wrecked, and we should toss him away and throw away the key?

Obviously the old saying "You never know what goes on behind closed doors" applies here...

I am disappointed, I thought we had found some common ground.

Linda7NJ said:

Sorry, I am not willing to lap up and believe what comes out of the mouth of a known double murderer and liar.

I hope his stay in the RTC is long, intense and a productive one.....for societies sake as much as his own.

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Well, thank goodness Linda, you do not have do be willing, or lap anything up, the world will go on and this boy will get the help he needs.

azmama said:

All of the "information" you just posted about Tim is your ideal of him, you know NONE of it! He loved children??? Pffft, how do you know? There is no evidence that he did not see abuse either! So Tim was a saint, but an 8 year old child is a piece of garbage, wrecked, and we should toss him away and throw away the key?

Obviously the old saying "You never know what goes on behind closed doors" applies here...

I am disappointed, I thought we had found some common ground.



Well, thank goodness Linda, you do not have do be willing, or lap anything up, the world will go on and this boy will get the help he needs.

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bbm

Let's all hope he accepts it and makes the most of it! I have my doubts.

Linda7NJ said:

Sorry, I am not willing to lap up and believe what comes out of the mouth of a known double murderer and liar.

I hope his stay in the RTC is long, intense and a productive one.....for societies sake as much as his own.

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What a kind thing to say... that statement makes me want to un-lap :sick: .

For society and the boy's sake, glad you have zero to do with it.