I didn't know anyone stated there was such a law, are you being sarcastic? If so, I offer you the reverse; I didn't know that there is a law stating you can't watch someone you think is suspicious.
The cries for help
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I didn't know anyone stated there was such a law, are you being sarcastic? If so, I offer you the reverse; I didn't know that there is a law stating you can't watch someone you think is suspicious.
Gaia713
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Interesting because a test was done on students getting a Masters in Sociology where, on a bus a white man was seated and a black man was standing and pointing a finger. Even KNOWING this was a test, the majority saw a black man pointing a gun at a seated white man. The point is that Martin was merely walking while black and that he was being followed by a white man. When did "walking while black" become a crime?
Donjeta
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So what are you basing your opinion on then? That Mr. Martin should have asked for directions from a clearly hostile individual?
suzihawk
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Well, as I said, I know very little about weapons. Sounds like semantics to me. Cocking the gun or chambering a bullet, either way it sure sounds like he intended to use that weapon that evening.
JMO
Yeah, that was pretty much my point. The person who stated that had no clue anything about the weapon yet they were claiming the clicks was from cocking it. It simply doesn't make sense.
Typically when you carry you have a round in the chamber. Otherwise you would have to chamber a round before the weapon can be used to save your own life, or someone else's. That kind of nullifies the reason for carrying. Imagine for a moment someone who carries a revolver. Don't you agree it'd be silly if they didn't have a round ready to go? I could see the discussion being played out in a comedy movie....
- Carrier: "Excuse me sir, I have to load my weapon so I can shoot you and save my own life. Give me about 10 seconds please."
*perp waits*
- Perpetrator: "... was I just trolled?"
Gaia713
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Yeah, and that's why he didn't even bother to finish up his AA degree. Seems to me that judges come from lawyers, not junior college attendees. More propaganda from the Zimmerman family and friends. At the rate he was completing his education, he'd be dead before he even finished law school. There's nothing to indicate that he was on an educational path to law. Just statements from his family.
In his December 2008 application to the Seminole County Sheriffs Office Citizens Law Enforcement Academy, he wrote that "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regaurd (sic) as I hope to one day become one."
http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-arrested-for-assaulting-officer-charges-dropped
I find it interesting that in describing the 2005 incident, Zimmerman claims to have been assaulted by the undercover officer first and that the officer never identified himself to him. He also does not mention entering the first offender's diversion program. Saying the charges were first reduced and dropped altogether makes it sound like a prosecutor saw no reason to prosecute him.
I got the justification part from your comment that "Mr. Martin should have asked for directions if he were as lost as people make claim, and Mr. Zimmerman was there to ask if he needed to. Had that happened this whole situation would have been avoided. I believe the first amendment protects his right to ask anyone anything he wants, and whomever he should ask a question has the right to ignore his inquiry. There is no law stating someone must identify before asking a question. I contend the easiest way to avoid the whole situation lies in my second sentence."
I assume you were referring to Zimmerman's comment to the dispatcher that Trayvon was suspicious for walking along and looking all around and that telling the stranger following him that he was lost would have justified his presence or demeanor to Zimmerman and then he wouldn't have shot him.
As for running, Zimmerman tells the dispatcher that he was following Trayvon and I hear what sounds like huffing and puffing. At least that's what it sounds like when I am running.
I think Zimmerman's state of mind is evident from his own words. His saying that "These *advertiser censored**holes always get away" tells me that he had decided that Trayvon was a criminal like the others who had committed burglaries and not been apprehended. His utterance of "f-ing punk (or punks)" is indicative of anger towards Trayvon, the supposed criminal who was getting away. There's no need for psychoanalysis and statements made minutes prior to the shooting give a better indicator of his state of mind at the time than questioning later will.
Donjeta
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If someone thinks they've caught up with a bad guy, I'm not nearly sure that the telling them that one is lost would help. Someone could just think that they've caught up with a bad guy who lies about being lost because the bad guy can't very well state that he's looking for a suitable house to rob.
Anyway, about those cries for help...
Anyway, about those cries for help...
that's a three year difference. People can change.
It's funny that you completely ignore this sentence and quote everything else.
I believe that would show that my "should have" is merely an example.
As I've told many other folks all over the internet, and as a socio PhD I'm sure that you understand that being "suspicious" of someone will vary from person to person due to events that have happened in their lifetime. Something I find suspicious, such as a guy setting a bag down near a pile of boxes, you may not. This is because my life story is not the same as yours. Mine comes from a military background.
"Following" does not equate to "running," but it's irrelevant anyway.
Ok, we can agree that he may have profiled Mr. Martin as a criminal, does that mean he's out to kill? Due to the pluralization of the word "punk" I find it hard to believe that he's talking about an INDIVIDUAL specifically. I think a better analysis of the word would be that it refers to the earlier statement "these a...... always get away," thus the criminals in the area. Based on your lack of a "yes" I'm going to say that you wouldn't say he was "out for blood" or "on the hunt" based on his non-emergency phone call, thanks!
The word "punk" is shown to be plural based on a quick google search of "zimmerman said punk" without the quotes.
It wouldn't surprise me if Zimmerman had called for help at some point. But I think that anguished wailing is Trayvon who had seen the gun and was in fear of his life.
I don't think witness accounts of who was yelling or hollering or whatever are going to be much help. It was dark and the natural assumption is that whoever one sees on the bottom of a scuffle is or was the person to cry out. Our minds try to make a coherent whole out of what we are seeing and that causes us to distort our memories of events.
Speaking of sociology experiments, I remember an experiment a sociology professor did when I was an undergraduate. We didn't know this was an experiment at the time of course. Another professor interrupted class and asked our prof if he had the $10 he had borrowed from him since he was heading out to lunch and needed the cash. Both men took out their wallets, money was given, and the men went on talking the whole time (Sorry to interrupt, etc.). When we were asked to write up what we had seen and heard we got what we had heard correct but no one correctly said what had actually happened, that the interrupting professor actually GAVE our professor a five dollar bill, he didn't get the $10 at all. All of us thought we saw our prof pay him back!
suzihawk
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Yes, all indications are that he became an upstanding and productive member of society after assaulting a law enforcement officer and being involved in a domestic abuse case. If it just wasn't for that one little incident of profiling and shooting dead an innocent young black man. /s
BTW, weren't both he and his wife unemployed for some time prior to the shooting?
Donjeta
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I'm not following.
Why did he bring up the escaping *advertiser censored*****s, plural, in a phone call about an individual, specifically, if he wasn't intending to include aforementioned individual in the group?
Why did he bring up the escaping *advertiser censored*****s, plural, in a phone call about an individual, specifically, if he wasn't intending to include aforementioned individual in the group?
The story I read from Reuters called "Prelude to a Shooting," shows that he was an upstanding citizen even before then. My personal opinion is that he probably had some liquid courage and wanted to help his friend. I won't say whether or not the officer identified himself, but the state seems to think there was enough doubt to drop it.
I have stated a number of times that I stopped watching the media. No one has asked when that was. Even then, if someone points me to an article I -may- check it out. That in itself does not mean I'm blindly listening to what the media has stated. However, I must take a different stance on the "Prelude to a Shooting" article because it's evident that someone did investigative journalism, and based on my opinion of that I do tend to give it a bit more credibility than the typical "zomg look what <insert some other source> is saying about <insert .. whatever>" stories.
To put it shortly, if you have to quote another media outlet for your story, you are not doing your job as a source of news.
Unless GZ's injuries were documented by the Sanford Fire Department EMT medical records and by photographs taken by the Sanford Police Department, it doesn't matter if he went to a doctor or hospital later. There would be no way to prove that his injuries happened during his altercation with TM - they could have happened later. And if SPD did NOT document GZ's injuries and they were real, then that shows a serious problem with SPD and their investigative branch.
Without official documentation, I could not be convinced that any injury seen by a doctor hours or days after the incident had not been created later to support GZ's claims of self defense.
IMO, JMO, etc.
Elley Mae
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I am trying to figure out how is it that the person using self-defense or SYG should have injuries. Do you have that information? Isn't that the whole purpose of the law?
The charges were not dropped, they were reduced to a misdemeanor with pretrial diversion to an anger management course.
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/default.aspx
BBM
All I know is that GZ and his family and friends have claimed various levels of injury to GZ. Some enhanced still shots from videos and a cell photo photo have been used in the media to support those claims of GZ's injuries. Until I see officially documented evidence - medical records and photographs - from that night before GZ was released from police custody, I will not be certain of the severity of GZ's injuries, if any.
IMO, JMO, etc. This would be better discussed in the thread for GZ's injuries. We've gotten off-topic!
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