17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

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I thought Tracy Martin's recounting of the events was unassailable truth? What happened? :waitasec:

The SPD told Tracy Martin the wrong location possibly?? Why the vitriol toward Tracy Martin a grieving father? IMO

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What a handsome photo of Trayvon. He certainly had a fondness for hoodies. It's usually hot in Florida and my parents live there so I'm there alot. I don't know many people in Florida who have such a big selection of hoodies. I am a huge hoodie fan. I have so many of them but I'm a woman so I don't think anyone would consider me a but it's sad to know that his love for hoodies may have played a role in his demise.

Does anyone feel any certain way about the fact that if Trayvon was not suspended he would not have been there in the first place. This fact keeps bothering me. I'm not blaming the victim but I just want to go back in time and change the actions that caused him to be suspended.

No. If it hadn't been Trayvon, it would have been someone else's child and soon. The one thing Frank Taafe has said that I believe is that GZ had "fed up issues." JMO.

As for the hoodies, my teen boys have all sorts of them. In addition to the ones they have chosen themselves with "Las Vegas" or a favorite college mascot on them, a hoodie is actually part of the team uniform package for every sport they are on in high school. So they have a football one, a lacrosse one, etc. for each season every year. We have tons of them.

And wearing them when it's hot? My middle one wears his even when it is blazing out. We used to call the one that he was allowed to wear to school with the uniform his "woobie" because I practically had to wash it while he was asleep!
 
Mary C said the argument started a couple of houses down and TM ended up getting shot right near her back porch. No wonder they are pulling everything from the websites. jmo

How do you know they are pulling everything from the websites? They can't change GM's police report though?
 
Yes, it would only make sense TM would have been suspicious of GZ. Both of them suspicious of the other.

A few days ago attorney Ben Crump told Piers that he believed that TM went to his death not knowing who GZ was. He just thought it was a person attacking him. What a scary feeling in the dark of night to be assaulted by an ex-bouncer, a bully really. The more I read about GZ the more I see him as a bully. He would have made a scary police officer.
 
I didn't here her say that in CNN interview. That would be a much bigger story than the one she gave. SPD withholding certain 911 calls would be huge.

She may not have said that, but her description of what she saw and heard and the detail from last night's interview that she held the phone up to the screen so the operator could hear the argument, does NOT match any of the released 911 calls.

One thought - did she actually call 911 or did she call a non-emergency number for SPD? I think the 911 calls were only released because the Martin attorneys had asked for them and for GZ's call. If the Martin's request was too specifically worded (original report by GZ and 911 calls about the event) and this woman (and others) called a non-emergency number, a sneaky city attorney could have considered that the other calls were not included in the request.

IMO, JMO, etc.
 
A witness has an attorney? ??

I'm sorry to be dense, but what does that mean "and held phone up to screen". Does that mean she photographed what she saw with her phone?

It strains the imagination to think of how GZ got injuries to the back of his head when he was on top during a fight. Also it strains the imagination to think how Trayvon would be losing a hand to hand fight with GZ.

I can think of several other ways Zimmerman could have gotten an injury to the back of his head that evening, if any such injury exists. Moo
Could you please elaborate on why you find it so imagination straining to see Trayvon losing a fight to Zimmerman? You have said this a number of times, and I don't think you have explained how you have come to feel this way. I would really like to know your thoughts on this.
 
Here is one source for the ambulance audio:

Trayvon Martin Ambulance Audio Recording - YouTube

This recording clears up where the body of TM was located.

Lying in the grass [1:29]......Behind 2831 Retreat View Circle in the backyard [1:52]

This is the residence of Selma Mora Lamilla and her roommate Mary Cutcher.

Mr. Martin was about 35 feet off from the location he showed us. I can't fault a grieving father for that. I'd still be trying to remember my own name.

**Please accept my apologies for any confusion caused by the earlier image posted last night showing the Retreat View addys. I overlooked the fact that the building has 6 units as opposed to the 5 that I counted on Twin Trees**
 

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What a handsome photo of Trayvon. He certainly had a fondness for hoodies. It's usually hot in Florida and my parents live there so I'm there alot. I don't know many people in Florida who have such a big selection of hoodies. I am a huge hoodie fan. I have so many of them but I'm a woman so I don't think anyone would consider me a but it's sad to know that his love for hoodies may have played a role in his demise.

Does anyone feel any certain way about the fact that if Trayvon was not suspended he would not have been there in the first place. This fact keeps bothering me. I'm not blaming the victim but I just want to go back in time and change the actions that caused him to be suspended.

Absolutely not. Trayvon's parents were divorced. Was he not supposed to visit with his father? Perhaps his dad had every other weekend visitation? If Trayvon hadn't been suspended and was just up visiting for the weekend, would it have made it a sadder story? How dare Trayvon be suspended from school, let's just murder him and be done with it.

< mod snip >



~jmo~


~jmo~
 
Just a reminder...

We all should be able to give OUR OPINION without being told we are dishonest etc. ITS OUR OPINION, so if you don't see a link to show something as fact its an opinion. If you want to argue a point that is perfectly fine. We need to respect each others opinons as long as its within TOS. We know what that is... Right?

Ima
 
A few days ago attorney Ben Crump told Piers that he believed that TM went to his death not knowing who GZ was. He just thought it was a person attacking him. What a scary feeling in the dark of night to be assaulted by an ex-bouncer, a bully really. The more I read about GZ the more I see him as a bully. He would have made a scary police officer.

I understand what you're saying but GZ has also said TM was the one who attacked him and to be honest I'm not sure who attacked who.
 
I can think of several other ways Zimmerman could have gotten an injury to the back of his head that evening, if any such injury exists. Moo
Could you please elaborate on why you find it so imagination straining to see Teayvon losing a fight to Zimmerman? You have said this a number of times, and I don't think you have expained how you have come to feel this way. I would really like to know your thoughts on this.

My son is a grappler, and when I go to grappling tournaments I can almost always tell who will win the match just by glancing up at the two opponents on the mat before the match begins. It's not height or weight, or really anything tangible. I think actually it's not some hoodoo psychic skill I have, my guess is almost everyone in the audience can look at two men and tell which will win the match.

When I look at GZ and Trayvon, I pick Trayvon. It's my opinion.
 
Absolutely. Both are within their rights to be suspicious, and very wary, of each other. They are NOT within their rights to bang each other's head on the ground.

At that point, whoever is getting their head pounded is within their rights to shoot the other to death.

This is the core of the entire thing, and all the rest of the story is just extraneous information.

If one is getting their head pummeled by the other, he is within his rights to kill in self-defense. Period.




when Mr Martin decided to defend himself against his attacker/assailant Mr Zimmerman he had every right to fight off this man who stalked then confronted and attacked him. It was Mr Martin's right to fight off his attacker. Sadly Mr Zimmerman chose to first attack, then kill.
 
My son is a grappler, and when I go to grappling tournaments I can almost always tell who will win the match just by glancing up at the two opponents on the mat before the match begins. It's not height or weight, or really anything tangible. I think actually it's not some hoodoo psychic skill I have, my guess is almost everyone in the audience can look at two men and tell which will win the match.

When I look at GZ and Trayvon, I pick Trayvon. It's my opinion.



my son was a wrestler as well. He would have been the one assumed to lose but went to States twice because it isn't always the one we think will win who takes the matches.

If only Mr Zimmerman had chosen to stay in his vehicle and allow the real law enforcement to do their job instead of taking it upon himself to assail Mr Martin <<< my opinion.
 
I can think of several other ways Zimmerman could have gotten an injury to the back of his head that evening, if any such injury exists. Moo
Could you please elaborate on why you find it so imagination straining to see Teayvon losing a fight to Zimmerman? You have said this a number of times, and I don't think you have expained how you have come to feel this way. I would really like to know your thoughts on this.

We have witness reports that on TWO known occasions, Zimmerman PICKED UP AND THREW a grown adult woman across the room. Assuming that a small to average adult woman would weigh at least 125 to 135 pounds or so....it is only pure logic to assume that the extra 15 pounds of Trayvon's weight would be of no consequence to Zimmerman in an altercation that he himself was prepared for and instigated by stalking the victim. If he twice before LIFTED AND THREW an adult woman, surely he could hold his own with a young boy!

jmo
 
How do you know they are pulling everything from the websites? They can't change GM's police report though?

I meant SPD's website. It still appears on the media one's I believe. Thanks
 
That entire 911 call reads like a script for a self defense claim. It's practically perfect.

1. Establish backstory: "We've had some break-ins.."

2. Identify bad guy: "He's up to no good, he's on drugs or something, definately messed up"

3. Establish Concerns: "He's staring at me"

4. Elevate Concerns: "He's coming towards me"

5. Establish DANGER: "He's got his hand in his waistband!"

6. Elevate DANGER: "Something is wrong with him! He's coming to check me out! He's got something in his hand! How long until an officer gets here?"

The only problem with this is that it seems likely, to me, that none of it actually happened. In this 911 call Zimmerman is trying to paint this kid as a menacing gun packing gangbanger, and himself as a calm law abiding guardian of the community forced to take him down. And whether the kid is armed or not, it's right there on the 911 tape that Zimmerman had probably cause to think he was.

And, in my opinion, Zimmerman knew it -- he knew exactly what he was saying. He had a gun and in my opinion he really wanted to use it.

The question to ask is this: does ANY of this sound plausible given what we know of Trayvon's following actions (running away, expressing his concerns to his girlfriend, etc)? Did Trayvon REALLY go strutting towards Zimmerman, hand in his waistband like a gangbanger was packing heat, or was this just a set up?

JMO MOO etc

Some of his previous calls were similar down to the exact same phrases:
http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/03/20/12/34/1kiAJG.So.56.mp3

Police release watch captain’s previous calls

George Zimmerman’s calls show interest in the mundane and in suspicious outsiders.


By Frances Robles
frobles@MiamiHerald.com

From open garage doors to kids dashing into the street and “suspicious characters,” George Zimmerman, neighborhood watch captain at Retreat at Twin Lakes, was on it.

The Seminole County Sheriff’s Office on Monday release tapes of six calls to the police non-emergency number in which Zimmerman called in mundane goings-on at his Sanford townhouse complex — including four times he saw black men loitering.

On the tapes, Zimmerman sounds as if he’s reading from a script, often starting with “We’ve had a lot of break-ins our neighborhood.” In one October call, he said two “suspicious characters” in a white Impala were “just hanging out, loitering.” Another black man in pajama pants and a leather jacket showed up on trash day last month, while two other men spotted in early August matched the description of burglars his wife had seen, he said.

Just as he did with Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin, who was black, Zimmerman sometimes said, “I don’t know what his deal is.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2702809/police-release-watch-captains.html#storylink=cpy

BBM

He also avoided giving his address on at least on call.

IMO, JMO, etc
 
We have witness reports that on TWO known occasions, Zimmerman PICKED UP AND THREW a grown adult woman across the room. Assuming that a small to average adult woman would weigh at least 125 to 135 pounds or so....it is only pure logic to assume that the extra 15 pounds of Trayvon's weight would be of no consequence to Zimmerman in an altercation that he himself was prepared for and instigated by stalking the victim. If he twice before LIFTED AND THREW an adult woman, surely he could hold his own with a young boy!

jmo

I agree raeann. I think it speaks volumes about the type of person Zimmerman is to know that he can put his hands on a woman in any type of aggressive manner whatsoever. If you will hit or throw a woman, you have no trouble doing that to a kid. Additionally, there were at least two documented instances of him abusing women, the first at the party and the second his fiance.


~jmo~
 
How many times can you bang your head on the ground in 44 seconds? A lot.

Even 10 seconds of banging your head on the ground is enough to cause deadly injuries -

I'm certain his injuries, however severe or slight they may be, have been documented. I feel like I've seen enough documentation of them in the CNN video, but I would bet there are much better photos out there.

I think one bang on cement GZ would have been senseless, two I would think he'd be barely conscious. Repeatedly I doubt he would be able to even pull his gun out. No one saw them on cement only grass. Witness statements, EMT clearing GZ's within minutes of his injuries do not add up to life threatening injuries. Plus the lockup video is showing marks on top of his head, not the back which would be consistent with his head banging on the cement. So until we see a report of his injuries I think it is still a question that is up in the air.

I'm still trying to visualize how someone can bang your head on cement repeatedly when you have no hair??????? jmo
 
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