WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

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Beyond Belief said:
She drove in there, got stuck nd took the keys out of the ignition. WHY
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IMO she took the keys out of the ignition and decided they would stay there for the night. She probably passed out, and they awoke to the high tide.
 
Yep I agree she took the keys out to avoid Drink Driving charge.......

and Jessiesgirl I did not even think of the fact that the tide coming in would have shut the back door .....this is a good point....

so in this case the going to sleep and waking up with water coming in and getting out and in the confusion ending up in deeper water may be what happened...

one thing tho...and this is probably a silly question but I wouldnt have a clue about these things.....is it possible to open a door if it would have been in water?????



I really do think she ended up on that back road to get out sight of any police or others thinking she was drink driving........alot was hanging over her head.......that defferred charge being made if she was court and also the possibility of losing her son again since welfare has been involved once.........




Now all we need to know is what happened to make her risk all of this and drink drive and with her child in the car.........
 
Beyond Belief said:
She drove in there, got stuck nd took the keys out of the ignition. WHY
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Maybe a hijacker drove the van into the soon to be rising tide?

Or, maybe S. Drove it there, and wandered off, leaving her sleeping son, who later drowned?
 
Nancee Drue said:
Maybe a hijacker drove the van into the soon to be rising tide?

Or, maybe S. Drove it there, and wandered off, leaving her sleeping son, who later drowned?
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Poor kid... can you imagine how terrifying it would be, waking up to that swirling tide, and your mom either being passed out or nowhere to be found?
 
RubyRed said:
I think everything has spiraled out of control so fast and he probably didn't expect what has happened. I bet he thought they would be found and they were just lost. Sadly it had a tragic end and I believe she is in the water as well.
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Oh yeah, I'm sure you're right. I don't think that he wanted her dead, nor that he ever dreamed that anything like this would happen, even if they had had an argument.

I just think that something happened before she left, and continued in the phone calls.
 
justme96 said:
I am not saying in anyway that RS had anything to do with this however there are many things about him that bothers me. He is leaving so much out.

He seems to be very controlling. We saw him in the media (more than we cared to) try to controll interviews. Questions went unanswered and he turned back to his own story. Someone who is that controlling whould know which highway she took. Taking SR 3 to 101 is a gamble. I have been stuck in traffic on SR3 all the way to Gorst. Then again if you have been watching the local news you would have known that they were planning to shut down an offramp in Tacoma where SR 16 merges with I-5. The construction was put off due to weather. If she went through tacoma she would have been recorded going over the bridge. Either with a Good2Go pass or a reciept. Either way you can't get over the bridge without at least 6 photos of your car taken. This was all in the paper as part of homeland security. Everytime I go to Portland i plan my route carefully because of the traffic.

There is way too much time lost in all of this. He states that she called him at 6:45 from a payphone and she was in olympia and going to pull off the highway to get AC somthing to eat. If she was a at a phone woundn't she have already pulled off the highway or did she really have her cell phone?

Where is she from 6:45 until she get directions and buys the wine? Over an hour goes by where is she?

In his first interview it bothered me that RS said "I love SS and Az is a great kid. I just want her to come home and marry me."

He just seems to be holdnig back too much info about SS and Az. What is he hiding?

I don't think RS loved her child and that may have bothered her.
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I don't believe they had the happy little family life that he has tried to portray. My take on him is that he's histrionic, self-centered, and manipulative; that was evident in his interviews, which often focused more on him than on the search for Shantina and Azriel. In one interview (GMA, I think), the host asked 'how are you holding up' and RS goes into this long story that really wasn't appropriate, and the host finally cut him off and refocused him (or tried to). Watching him in these interviews, and reading his site, make me wonder what really triggered her behaviour. I know it wasn't his self-diagnosed *whatever*. That really comes across as manipulative and rather desperate, especially if he was trying to get her to set or move up a date to get married.

Someone brought up her recent successes (school, job, etc) and that maybe it was too much for her to handle; that things going right for a change might have been a big stressor. I thought that was a good point, too.

I don't believe she was truly lost. Considering the above, her behaviour was more like someone intentionally trying to avoid *whatever* and possibly even suicidal. Grandpa said she'd traveled to Castle Rock a couple of weeks prior. There was no indication that she visited step-father at that time (and step sister talked as if this trip would be her first). I really wonder if she had located this beach on the prior trip, and went there this time on purpose. Maybe LE should ask the locals if they noticed anything unusual within the last month, before she went missing.
 
:angel:
pufnstuf said:
According to the chart you linked:

Low tide on Saturday was 10:42 PM at 1.69 ft.

High tide on Sunday was 6:15 AM at 14.25 ft.
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With this knowledge about the exact measurements of the tides I am more confused than ever. I need someone to tell me, do we know for sure the vans hatch and door or doors were indeed FOUND open up? I am almost certain all reports have stated that YES they were found opened up. Not opened by someone first on the scene but that they were found open. If that in fact is true it just is NOT possibe. And by looking at these tide measurements it furthermore proves it would NOT be possible for the doors to stay open throughout the entire time of the high tides rushing in and more importantly(in speaking of this particular observation) of the tide mediately rushing back OUT! There for the force Combined with the measurements of high tide a car door would have been slammed shut as the tide rushes back out. So do we know for. A fact that the van was initially found with door(s) opened up. If that's the case then there was someone at that van AFTER the high tides had subsided. And if it were either mom or az that opened them AFTER high tide then it means they were not swept out by the high tides and it would also be the huge question of how then did az end up in water AFTER high tides. I'm hoping I'm making some sense with whT I'm saying. It's late And I'm frAzzled. So am sorryif it seems not to make sense. Can someone just tell me if it is fact that the doors were FOUND open? TIA.
 
lilcatt said:
Hi, I am new to this board. There is one thing that has been bothering me all day, I wonder if anyone else saw it. There was video or story where someone mentioned that they should look on some island, they said there was a smaller island near it. I keep thinking that it might have been RS, but not sure. It would have been in the last couple of days. I have looked and looked but can't find it.
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Earlier yesterday someone mentioned activity in the Harborview Drive over Gig Harbor. But, that was as much as it has been said. Nothing more, so it must've been nothing.

I am puzzled by how far from the van the boy was found, though I have read the currents there are very strong and it's possible.

He was carried by the currents so fast, and nobody saw him, even with helicopters, ground, and water searches.

I always thought that things dumped in the shores tend to stay closer to where they are dumped, and that lighter things travel faster than heavier things in water.

I read that the currents in Puget sound run clockwise, which mean they move East to West when they are coming in, and leave West to East, in this case both ways going through that inlet under the Tacoma Narrows Bridge.

But when there are obstacles, like isles, the waters take a motion of their own.

The area is unique, because there's just that one inlet that runs under the bridge to let water in and out, AFAIK, so eventually everything being flushed from the different Harbors will flow under the bridge.
 
jessigirl said:
:angel:

With this knowledge about the exact measurements of the tides I am more confused than ever. I need someone to tell me, do we know for sure the vans hatch and door or doors were indeed FOUND open up? I am almost certain all reports have stated that YES they were found opened up. Not opened by someone first on the scene but that they were found open. If that in fact is true it just is NOT possibe. And by looking at these tide measurements it furthermore proves it would NOT be possible for the doors to stay open throughout the entire time of the high tides rushing in and more importantly(in speaking of this particular observation) of the tide mediately rushing back OUT! There for the force Combined with the measurements of high tide a car door would have been slammed shut as the tide rushes back out.
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I don't get your logic here. The tide doesn't suddenly rush in, it rises over a period of time. It's not like the tide is going to generate a wave that pushes the door in when rising.
 
Allyne said:
Here's the 911 call. Someone else posted it earlier, too.
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Thanks, I have not heard the entire call before!

The caller say towards the end that he could tell they had been stuck because of all the mud caused by the tires spinning.

Also to me the guy sounds like all he was concerned about was that someone trespassed, I bet he feels terrible now that he found out the real story.
 
jessigirl said:
:angel:

With this knowledge about the exact measurements of the tides I am more confused than ever. I need someone to tell me, do we know for sure the vans hatch and door or doors were indeed FOUND open up? I am almost certain all reports have stated that YES they were found opened up. Not opened by someone first on the scene but that they were found open. If that in fact is true it just is NOT possibe. And by looking at these tide measurements it furthermore proves it would NOT be possible for the doors to stay open throughout the entire time of the high tides rushing in and more importantly(in speaking of this particular observation) of the tide mediately rushing back OUT! There for the force Combined with the measurements of high tide a car door would have been slammed shut as the tide rushes back out. So do we know for. A fact that the van was initially found with door(s) opened up. If that's the case then there was someone at that van AFTER the high tides had subsided. And if it were either mom or az that opened them AFTER high tide then it means they were not swept out by the high tides and it would also be the huge question of how then did az end up in water AFTER high tides. I'm hoping I'm making some sense with whT I'm saying. It's late And I'm frAzzled. So am sorryif it seems not to make sense. Can someone just tell me if it is fact that the doors were FOUND open? TIA.
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After listening to the entire 911 call I wonder about whether the doors were open when the very first person saw it.

The 911 caller said he did not initially see the van in morning but was told about the van on his beach from a neighbor and that neighbor heard about it from another neighbor. When he went down the doors were open.

Maybe one of those other people opened the doors to look inside and didn't want to admit it for some reason.
 
Calliope said:
I don't believe they had the happy little family life that he has tried to portray. My take on him is that he's histrionic, self-centered, and manipulative
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Whoa. I know you suspected him of being involved in the beginning (directly involved as I recall), but regardless: any observations of his personality, even if you were qualified to diagnose him as having histrionic personality disorder, is suspect because he's probably going through the most stress he's ever had to go through in his life.

That's like calling a grieving mother "overly emotional."

Watching him in these interviews, and reading his site, make me wonder what really triggered her behaviour. I know it wasn't his self-diagnosed *whatever*.
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You know this how? I ask because you also seemed pretty sure this was a "balloon boy hoax" and, you know, that prediction didn't turn out well.

I don't believe she was truly lost. Considering the above, her behaviour was more like someone intentionally trying to avoid *whatever* and possibly even suicidal. Grandpa said she'd traveled to Castle Rock a couple of weeks prior. There was no indication that she visited step-father at that time (and step sister talked as if this trip would be her first). I really wonder if she had located this beach on the prior trip, and went there this time on purpose.
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If she already found the beach through scouting, she wouldn't have had a problem finding it a second time, which it sounds like she did (by asking directions at 10pm.) Q.E.D.
 
jessigirl said:
:angel:
And if it were either mom or az that opened them AFTER high tide then it means they were not swept out by the high tides and it would also be the huge question of how then did az end up in water AFTER high tides. I'm hoping I'm making some sense with whT I'm saying. It's late And I'm frAzzled. So am sorryif it seems not to make sense. Can someone just tell me if it is fact that the doors were FOUND open? TIA.
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Respectfully snipped . . .

Just to add to this, and I am not an expert about tides at all, if the tides come in over a period of time and they were awakened by the water coming in, then wouldn't the tide coming in push them toward the shore? Even if they succumbed to the water, wouldn't they still be pushed in? I suppose they could be carried out when the tide went out, but that might mean then that they would have lingered near the shore for some time.

Like I said, I don't know much about tides, but these are just some questions/ideas that popped into my head.
 
PaulR said:
I don't get your logic here. The tide doesn't suddenly rush in, it rises over a period of time. It's not like the tide is going to generate a wave that pushes the door in when rising.
Click to expand...

My opinion of this being NOT possible(door or doors remaining open throughout high tide)is completely based on personal experience. While snorkeling in Hawaii we made the mistake ONCE of snorkeling of the shore at high tide time. And my personal experience was that of an extremely forceful motion sucking me out further into ocean. On a different vacation was witness to a very similar situation I had, but the high tide was even more forceful in sucking a grown man further and further out. I know for sure that on either of those 2 occasions the force in which the tide rolled back out asW enough to more than shut any vehicle's door. And if you completely disagree wit what I am saying as far as the force of motion of the wAter and that the high would not haave the ability to shut a vehicles door then how could so many believe that it swept 2 people out(atleast one for sure, poor little az)
I'm only trying to explainmy logic and whe re I am "coming from" on the idea of the doors not remaining open during that time. (excuse typos, tired and typing on phone keyboard)
 
Originally Posted by lilcatt View Post
Hi, I am new to this board. There is one thing that has been bothering me all day, I wonder if anyone else saw it. There was video or story where someone mentioned that they should look on some island, they said there was a smaller island near it. I keep thinking that it might have been RS, but not sure. It would have been in the last couple of days. I have looked and looked but can't find it.
Click to expand...

Earlier yesterday someone mentioned activity in the Harborview Drive over Gig Harbor. But, that was as much as it has been said. Nothing more, so it must've been nothing.

I am puzzled by how far from the van the boy was found, though I have read the currents there are very strong and it's possible.

He was carried by the currents so fast, and nobody saw him, even with helicopters, ground, and water searches.

I always thought that things dumped in the shores tend to stay closer to where they are dumped, and that lighter things travel faster than heavier things in water.

I read that the currents in Puget sound run clockwise, which mean they move East to West when they are coming in, and leave West to East, in this case both ways going through that inlet under the Tacoma Narrows Bridge.

But when there are obstacles, like isles, the waters take a motion of their own.

The area is unique, because there's just that one inlet that runs under the bridge to let water in and out, there is no West outlet, so eventually everything being flushed from the different Harbors will flow under the bridge.

Reposting this because the thread was closed and the OP may miss the answer.
 
RubyRed said:
CNN-missing-wash-mom_20100318034402_1_320_240.JPG


Mom_Son_Missing_JPE_467437c.jpg

A mark is evident is shown on the passenger side of the abandoned van of Shantina Smiley Tuesday March 16, 2010 in Tumwater,Wash., which was found on a beach near Zangle Road Sunday, with no trace of Smiley or her eight year-old son Azriel Carver. (AP Photo/The Olympian, Steve Bloom)

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-worl..._Son_Missing_JPE_467437c.jpg&superSizeImage=y

No damage to the van in the first pic, so we know it happened after that stop.
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Excellent sluething. The first picture, I believe, was taken at the Handy Pantry at 7:55 PM?

According to a time line, 9:55 p.m. – Lt. Mealey says there is more surveillance video of Shantina stopping off at a local store on a rural county road. The store was closed, so she left. If the pic below that I snipped from a video is from that surveillance video, then the marks on the side of the van do not appear to be there at 9:55 PM. (I wish I could find a better shot of the actual video.)

The store where this video was taken appeared closed, and the occupants of the van did not appear to get out of the van. It looks like it just pulled up and then left.
 

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How far, by car, is the place, the boy's body came ashore? Maybe someone gave S and son a ride to the other side?
 
jessigirl said:
My opinion of this being NOT possible(door or doors remaining open throughout high tide)is completely based on personal experience. While snorkeling in Hawaii we made the mistake ONCE of snorkeling of the shore at high tide time. And my personal experience was that of an extremely forceful motion sucking me out further into ocean. On a different vacation was witness to a very similar situation I had, but the high tide was even more forceful in sucking a grown man further and further out. I know for sure that on either of those 2 occasions the force in which the tide rolled back out asW enough to more than shut any vehicle's door. And if you completely disagree wit what I am saying as far as the force of motion of the wAter and that the high would not haave the ability to shut a vehicles door then how could so many believe that it swept 2 people out(atleast one for sure, poor little az)
I'm only trying to explainmy logic and whe re I am "coming from" on the idea of the doors not remaining open during that time. (excuse typos, tired and typing on phone keyboard)
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Yes but this is the peuget sound not the open ocean. im no excpert onn tides. but the tide coming in on thocean and the sound as i have wittensed are a lot different. mini van side door may have shut with the tide but doubtfull as it snugs to the car pretty well. If The rear hatch was to be shut by the tide i would think the tide would have had to fully engulff the rear of the van.
 
RubyRed said:
roadtobeach_t607.jpg

Off Zangle Road NE in North Olympia is a narrow gravel road leading to the beach where the van Shantina Smiley had been driving was found. The entrance to that gravel road is marked by a red arrow. (Photo courtesy of reader Robert Dashiell)

Beach_Road_End2_t607.jpg

[I]This is near the end of the beach access road where the van Shantina Smiley was driving was found. At the end of this graveled road is a very sharp drop-off to the right. The red dot marks the approximate location of the vehicle, which was removed by investigators Sunday. The waterway to the left leads to Boston Harbor. (Photo courtesy of Robert Dashiell)
[/i]
[

http://www.kitsapsun.com/photos/galleries/2010/mar/16/shantina-smiley-disappearance/8911/

Help was right at the top of that hill. I just wonder why she didn't persistently try to get someone's attention.
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A very narrow steep path/road. So the "drunk" lady who couldn't manage to miss a curb, drove down this steep path/road? Finding it alone was quite a bright eyed wonder, then driving down it and not driving off the side? wow.

Then she gets stuck in the mud?

This story is just too wierd.


moo
\
 
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