IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #15

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jjenny said:
If they made plans for him to come over after LS comes home from the bar (which is what appears to be a current version coming from HT) then how could it possibly be stalking?
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I'm just saying, if she didn't answer her cell, it would be probably overly possessive for him to come track her down at the bar.

Yeah, being concerned the following day is normal, especially after he finds out that no one has heard from her or seen her all day.

My hunch is that JW had nothing to do with her disappearance. But of course, I have been known to be wrong a time or two. I just don't see anything weird or concerning in their relationship that leads me to believe that he did something to her. I think she hung out with the wrong group of people on the wrong night.
 
coltsgal said:
Another thing is that couples don't always have to hang out together, or know each other's whereabouts. I know that I got out of several relationships because of an over-possessive boyfriend who always wanted to know where I was at all times.

Not that I was doing anything wrong, it's just that I did need space sometimes. So I don't think its weird at all that LS went out without JW that night. Maybe it's strange that she was with other guys, and not just girl friends, but we still can't judge that relationship unless we had more details.
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That is what I am wondering about now. I am wondering if her BF was upset that she went to a bar with her guy friends and then would not answer her cell. Makes me wonder if he followed up on it, or just gave up and went to bed.

My DH gives me all the space I want to even go on day trips with friends, sometimes male friends, but if I do not answer the phone then he gets upset.
As long as I answer or return calls reasonably soon all is good.
 
jjenny said:
Since HT is not a witness to most of it (since she was not in the bar with LS) what she is reporting to the press has to be hearsay. We don't really know where she gets all her info from, but presumably it's their other friends. Maybe it's like a game of broken telephone.
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Alright, but that's somewhat important all by itself. There's really only three people we currently know of who could've given HT that sort of information - LS, JW, or CR. I doubt CR would've told her anything (since HT supposedly didn't know him very well). It also probably wasn't LS, since she would've had to text her about it sometime between getting to JRs and getting tossed from the bar.

So if she got it from JW, when? That night or the next day? If it was that night, wouldn't he have contacted HT after a certain point and asked her if LS had come back from the bar yet, since they were supposed to meet up?
 
coltsgal said:
Yeah, everyone loves a stalker boyfriend who comes to find them after they can't be reached on their cell........
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My 19 yr old niece was supposed to call her bf when she got home from her waitressing job after midnight one night. He kept calling her and she did not answer. He went out looking and found her tire tracks going off the icy road at the turn near her house. She was still alive, trapped inside her over turned car. He saved her life that night. She is paralyzed but has a pretty good life still and they will always be close friends, even though they did break up later on.
 
northsider said:
Alright, but that's somewhat important all by itself. There's really only three people we currently know of who could've given HT that sort of information - LS, JW, or CR. I doubt CR would've told her anything (since HT supposedly didn't know him very well). It also probably wasn't LS, since she would've had to text her about it sometime between getting to JRs and getting tossed from the bar.

So if she got it from JW, when? That night or the next day? If it was that night, wouldn't he have contacted HT after a certain point and asked her if LS had come back from the bar yet, since they were supposed to meet up?
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But the story HT told earlier is that LS and JW were supposed to get together after basketball game. So now they were supposed to get together after LS got home from the bar? I doubt JW is still talking to HT (and if he is, I presume his lawyer isn't going to be very happy), so where did HT get what appears to be the new version of the story?
 
northsider said:
Interesting. So do you think HT is lying when she says they had plans to meet up after the bar?
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I think HT is just repeating to some degree what JW told her later on.

LS: doing anything tonight
JW: watching the bball game w/ friends
LS: meet up later?
JW: sure, text me after the game
<no contact made>, JW goes to bed
next day, HT talks to JW who says we had plans to meet up the night before
 
katydid23 said:
My 19 yr old niece was supposed to call her bf when she got home from her waitressing job after midnight one night. He kept calling her and she did not answer. He went out looking and found her tire tracks going off the icy road at the turn near her house. She was still alive, trapped inside her over turned car. He saved her life that night. She is paralyzed but has a pretty good life still and they will always be close friends, even though they did break up later on.
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Wow. Thanks for sharing that story, and I'm sorry to hear about your niece. I guess there is always an exception to the rule.
 
jjenny said:
So according to this version coming from HT, he was supposed to come after the bar? Well he knows where the bar is. He also knows where LS lives.
Why exactly would he need for LS to have her cell phone on her at all times to come over and hang out if that what the plan was? Especially since according to this version coming from HT, it appears he knew that LS was at the bar?
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I don't know, to me it sounds like they had unconfirmed plans. When he couldn't get in touch with her later that night, he stayed home -- this doesn't seem particularly odd to me. Also, given the wording of the more recent article, I don't think it implies that JW (or even HT) necessarily knew where she was at the time. Both quotes may be from the same interview, just worded differently.

"They were planning on hanging out when she got back (from the bar)," said Spierer's apartment mate, Hadar Tamir.
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http://www.lohud.com/article/20110702/NEWS02/107020339/-Determined-Spierers-stay-Indiana-father-appeals-parents-daughter-s-friends
 
katydid23 said:
My 19 yr old niece was supposed to call her bf when she got home from her waitressing job after midnight one night. He kept calling her and she did not answer. He went out looking and found her tire tracks going off the icy road at the turn near her house. She was still alive, trapped inside her over turned car. He saved her life that night. She is paralyzed but has a pretty good life still and they will always be close friends, even though they did break up later on.
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Exactly. Especially in a long term relationship (like LS and JW appear to be) if they had plans to meet after she came home from the bar, how would it be stalking?
 
AbbeyR said:
I don't know, to me it sounds like they had unconfirmed plans. When he couldn't get in touch with her later that night, he stayed home -- this doesn't seem particularly odd to me. Also, given the wording of the more recent article, I don't think it necessarily implies that JW (or even HT) necessarily knew where she was at the time. Both quotes may be from the same interview, just worded differently.
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I presume it would be pretty easy for LE to check their cell phone communications if they were communicating by text messages, to see what exactly their plans were, if any.
 
Missing IU student Lauren Spierer: Day-by-day timeline-
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/03/news.qp-1931501.sto
Excerpt-
Day 1
2:51 a.m. Security cameras mounted to apartments in the area show Spierer leave the alley toward an empty lot, north of 10th & College Village. Police confirm Spierer&#8217;s keys and purse were later found along this route through the alley.

Spierer visits the apartment complex on the southeast corner of 11th and Morton, called 5 North Townhomes, where Rossman lives.

Rossman&#8217;s roommate, Mike Beth, also has hired an attorney, Ron Chapman, who says Beth was at the townhome writing two papers when Spierer visited. Neither roommate was the last to see Spierer &#8212; Chapman says that person was IU student Jason &#8220;Jay&#8221; Rosenbaum, who lives two doors down from Rossman and Beth.
 
coltsgal said:
Wow. Thanks for sharing that story, and I'm sorry to hear about your niece. I guess there is always an exception to the rule.
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Admittedly he was kind of a controlling guy, but it worked to her advantage that night. But her traumatic experience was too hard on the relationship in the end. She is doing great now, 15 yrs later though. She is a special education teacher and has a wonderful boyfriend so sometimes things work out in their own way.
 
jjenny said:
Exactly. Especially in a long term relationship (like LS and JW appear to be) if they had plans to meet after she came home from the bar, how would it be stalking?
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I had come across several posts (unsure by who) that would state LS as JW's "property", and that's what I always think of when it's being discussed as to why JW should have went out looking for her.

I hate that she was discussed as being owned by someone, and just feel that if she wanted to go out for a night, with or without JW, she has that right. Especially if she needed space.

We don't really know for sure if she had plans to be with JW after the bar/game/etc.
 
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6790761&postcount=465"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13[/ame]

I wrote a post at the above link asking about HT being in Rosenbaum's apartment that night as reported by Fox 59 here, which doesn't jive with other reports.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-atto...raph-in-spierer-case-20110627,0,3846816.story

Here is interview of HT where she admits that it concerns her a little that some of the POIs aren't talking to her. I wonder who she is referring to?

http://tinyurl.com/6e7xh32
 
cluciano63 said:
No, something like that couldn't be explained away, if she was put into a place like that.

I still wonder if an opening existed that she could have fallen into and then been covered by accident.

I just have a bad feeling she won't be found.
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Yes, I had considered that earlier too. There were open holes on N. College perhaps on both sides from Btowns photos one appears on the smallwood side of the street near the sidewalk.

I had very early on asked if any cement has been poured in those construction sites around the days she went missing. It stands to reason that if there were earthmovers filling something in around June 3rd or the next few days, they could have covered up something without knowing.

For example if it were obvious they were filling in an area where some pipes or lines had been layed, and someone dug a shallow grave in the soft partially filled area... then the earth movers come back the next day and fill some more and pack it down... then a few more layers and then maybe some grass... and quickly people would forget that a month ago, there may have been a ditch there. Something to consider, the construction management should be able to quickly verify when any excavation or fill work was done, or cement pours for that matter.
 
PineMushroom said:
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-atto...raph-in-spierer-case-20110627,0,3846816.story
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I don't know if it means anything..but in the beginning of that video, the guy Keith says ..from what I heard, THEY were the last people to see her...it doesn't allude to who "they" are, but if JR was the last person to see her, why would he say "they", as in, more than one person..

And I'd just like to mention that the way HT talks really rubs me the wrong way. She seems so indifferent to the whole situation.
 
jjenny said:
Probably neither. I think LS wanted to party without him. I am not convinced they had plans to get together that night. If he actually did go to her place, since her place (Smallwood) has cameras all over the place, he would be on tape.
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In speaking of cameras at Smallwood and that they would have captured JW if he had gone to Lauren's or Smallwood in general during those hours in question..

Early on In one of the first few pressers that LE conducted along with Laurens parents.. This question of was Jesse present at any Point during the hours in question and LE said they would not or could not say one way or the either..

IMO that has always had me personally in my mind felt that the answer to that question could go either way and that in one of those ways being that Jesse wAs present at some point that he very likely would be seen on video taped surveillance of Smallwood during those hours in question(or possibly even on other video surveillance that LE has for the hours in question)..I.e. Making it even a possibility that Jesse was seen on alley cams.. Also could be possible that Jesse is the unnamed man seen on alley cam[IMO not likely that it's Jesse that is the unnamed person seen engaging in "activity" with Lauren at/or around 2:40-2:51].. But would never rule it out at this POint since we just Do NOT know..

So, I just wanted to make mention of LE when asked was Jesse present in/or around the events of that night.. LE stated they said they couldn't say that HE WAS NOT PRESENT.. Nor that he was present..

I'll try to locate a link and ETA it to this post..
 
While we DON'T KNOW, we still can use common sense. I don't believe there is any chance that JW is the guy in the alley with LS at 2:48-2:51am. Because what would he do next? Take her to CR's? Not at all likely. And I believe there is no way CR, MB and JR would claim she arrived over there and make themselves POIs if she didn't.
 
Just read a forensic astrology analysis about this case on another website...
I have also read some others that are posted on this website...
I find this one to be more detailed and has more info in it...
If anyone's interested:

http://forensicastrology.blogspot.com/
 
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