Mary Kennedy 52 found dead Estranged from Robert F Kennedy

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Jacie, I'm so sorry about your brother.

Not only will they carry that burden of what they could have done to make their mother want to live but feelings of "I wasn't good enough" for my mom to stay alive and the wonder if the same thing is going to happen to me. I firmly believe that major depression is genetic.

I hope they're surrounded by love and support and people that will tell them all the good things about their mother and how much she loved them.

BTW, we have some things in common, my username on other sites is "jace" :)
 
lizzybeth said:
Jacie, I'm so sorry about your brother.

Not only will they carry that burden of what they could have done to make their mother want to live but feelings of "I wasn't good enough" for my mom to stay alive and the wonder if the same thing is going to happen to me. I firmly believe that major depression is genetic.

I hope they're surrounded by love and support and people that will tell them all the good things about their mother and how much she loved them.

BTW, we have some things in common, my username on other sites is "jace" :)
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Thank you. 6 years later, I still think, is there something more I should have done or could have seen and I'm an adult. I do hope, as well, there is help for them.

Jacie was my great grandmother's name, also. I had a female professor who was named Jace and I have a cousin, male, with that name.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
I hope we hear the results of Mary's toxicology tests. Apparently they won't be back for months! I hope her death is being investigated.

I wonder how long Mary had been dead before the housekeeper discovered her in the Barn Wednesday afternoon. Did she sleep in her bed Tuesday night? A neighboring community on Cape Code is called BarnStable.

Robert said Mary phoned him on Tuesday and I think he knew what she was about to do. I thought Robert was living in LA when Mary killed herself but he is reportedly living nearby and Conor attends a high school in Bedford.

I wonder if Robert and his children will move back into the family house?

It seems Mary attended her Wake on Friday evening because there are media reports stating she almost missed it.

Mary's coffin remained closed during her funeral service and it rested in an aisle close to her children and I think it was closed to cover the discoloration on her neck. I also think it would have been too painful for the family to have it open.
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Does one ever really KNOW when the suicidal individual is serious or no? For me, NOW, the clue was when he became so calm, after months of frenzy; I cannot conclude RFK. Jr. "knew". Did her siblings know of her deep depression & try to get her held for observation?
 
Jacie Estes said:
I'm not Catholic or Christian, I'm Traditional American Indian. That said, I'm not understanding what I bolded. Does the church say the marriage is cursed or that they will go to hell for being married? Sorry but I honestly don't know, thanks for explaining.
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As far as I know, Robert and Mary had to have a civil ceremony rather than a church service in the “Kennedy” Catholic Church because divorce isn't permitted by the Catholic Church. Robert committed a sin of some type when he divorced Emily and as a result he has probably been banned and will remain a sinner for the rest of his life.

Unrepentant sinners are sent to hell where they are punished for eternity
and I don’t know if Robert was evicted from the Catholic Church for committing this sin but his marriage may have been a living hell for both of them if they felt they were guilty and deserved to be punished by God.

When Robert married Emily, they were both single and Emily wasn’t pregnant, so their union was acceptable to the Catholic Church and the couple were given God’s blessing.

I hear the rules about divorce are changing within the Catholic Church but this rule was still operating when Robert divorced Emily and married Mary.

Robert divorced Emily and married Mary 3 months before their son Connor was born so it looks like Robert divorced Emily so their child wouldn’t be born out of wedlock.

jmo
 
He is a bad example of a human, but no one "causes" another's suicide. That has been drilled into me for twenty years, as of Monday, May 21st.
 
TGIRecovered said:
I wonder if Mrs. Kennedy had ever attempted suicide before?

I suppose that if a person had tried suicide before (by taking drugs) but failed, he or she might decide to add hanging to the next overdose attempt to insure that if the drugs were insufficient to to kill, the hanging would seal the deal.

I'm still stuck on the fact that her youngest child of the four is only 11, the oldest 17. Their lives will be completely overturned. Would she really choose to do such an awful thing to her children?
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"Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain." - David Conroy- Out of the Nightmare: Recovery from Depression and Suicidal Pain

Amazon.com: Out of the Nightmare: Recovery from Depression and Suicidal Pain (9781879204003): David L. Conroy: Books
 
Jacie Estes said:
Thanks, lizzybeth. I was confused by that. Aren't you so glad he is an 'ex'? I think it is always good to move forward and when I use the term ex to describe mine, it is with a note of finite. :)

I agree that you should never enter into any relationship thinking the person has to/will change, they won't.

Sorry to hear about your Dad, my brother was the same. When he finally did it, he was terminally ill, it didn't ease the pain but I did understand a bit more easily. I feel badly for Mary's children, they will always carry a burden, they will wonder what they did. :sigh:
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I hope the adults in the childrens lives will get them the help they need quickly so "guilt" never sets in. :grouphug: to all of those touched by suicide.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
Mary and Robert weren’t allowed to marry in the "Kennedy Church" because Robert was divorced so in the eyes of the Catholic Church they were not joined by God and therefore their wedding vows were meaningless.

Robert and Mary were married in a civil ceremony so it's possible the Catholic Church did not allow them to have their children christened after they were cast out from the Garden of Eden.

Living in a marriage cursed by the Catholic Church would be a living hell and this was the state the couple's marriage was in for 16 years.
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There is nothing preventing the children of former Cathollcs from being raised Catholic, including going through the sacraments.
 
ChERYL RUTH HINES was born on September 21, 1965 in Miami Beach Florida. Part of the family came from Frostproof Florida but Cheryl grew up in Tallahassee. She was raised Catholic and has 2 brothers and 1 sister. Cheryl is currently 46 years-of-age and Robert F Kennedy Jr, who she is reportedly dating, is 58.

Hines married Paul Young December 30 2002 and they have one child, Catherine Rose Young.

On July 20, 2010, several months after Robert Kennedy filed for divorce, Hines and Young filed papers for their divorce after nearly 8 years of marriage.

Hines serves on the Board of Trustees of United Cerebral Palsy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Hines
 
Robert’s first wife Emily is alive. She was born on October 15, 1957 and is currently 54 y.o. Her and Robert had 2 children. Robert F III was born in 1984 and Kathleen was born 4 years later in 1988. They are now 24 and 28 y.o. but they were only 6 and 10 years old when Robert and Emily divorced so Emily likely depended on Robert for financial support while he was married to Mary and a portion of his earnings went to support his first family.

I imagine Robert may not have wanted to do this again when he filed to divorce Mary. He is nearly 60 years-of-age and Mary was financially dependent on him because she gave up her career after she married Robert.

Cheryl Hines has a successful career in acting and is financially secure. Cheryl married Paul Young on Dec 30 2002 and the couple has one daughter, Catherine Rose Young. I don’t have Catherine’s birth date but she would be 8-10 y.o. The couple filed for divorce on July 20, 2010.

Having to deal with and accept an ex-wife and their children could have been the reason Mary had emotional problems in her marriage to Robert.

On May 15 2010, Mary charged for DUI and pled guilty to a lesser charge. Mary Kennedy was sentenced to 90 days of psychiatric care after her DUI plea and the same year she was caught driving under the influence of prescription drugs she obtained through her psychiatrist. That charge was dismissed in July 2011 when a judge said the evidence showed she didn't know the medications she had taken would impair her ability to drive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-long-struggle-depression.html#ixzz1vtTad62q
 
Jacie Estes said:
I'm not Catholic or Christian, I'm Traditional American Indian. That said, I'm not understanding what I bolded. Does the church say the marriage is cursed or that they will go to hell for being married? Sorry but I honestly don't know, thanks for explaining.
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NOOOO!! absolutely not....the marriages are not "cursed"!!! The Catholic Church is not in any way identified with placing "curses" on anyone or anything. The more accurate and appropriate term might be the second marriage is not sanctioned by the Church. However, most who are concerned with that problem at all are able to get a first marriage officially annulled. There are many THOUSANDS of divorced Catholics who still attend the Church and are in perfectly happy marriages with perfectly fine family lives. I know personally a large number of them and NONE of them would say that their lives are like "living in hell" in any way at all.
 
raeann said:
NOOOO!! absolutely not....the marriages are not "cursed"!!! The Catholic Church is not in any way identified with placing "curses" on anyone or anything. The more accurate and appropriate term might be the second marriage is not sanctioned by the Church. However, most who are concerned with that problem at all are able to get a first marriage officially annulled. There are many THOUSANDS of divorced Catholics who still attend the Church and are in perfectly happy marriages with perfectly fine family lives. I know personally a large number of them and NONE of them would say that their lives are like "living in hell" in any way at all.
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Thank you raeann for your explanation. I wasn't thinking like 'hexes and spells' cursed but more like doomed. I couldn't imagine the whole 'heaviness/burden' of sin because of being married. Thanks again.
 
Robert filed for divorce in May 2010 and New York State’s “no fault divorce” came into effect in September 2010. I don't know how that would effect the Kennedy's divorce.

The details on the divorce filing, including grounds, are sealed so I bet Robert's told his
4 children not to discuss their parents volatile relationship with anyone.

Mary Kennedy was sentenced to 90 days of psychiatric care after her DUI plea so I wonder how she met this requirement?

Here are further details on the domestic disturbances that occurred at the Kennedy home in recent years.

February 2010 – Mary reportedly checked into rehab

April 2010 – house renovations finished

May 10 2010 - Mary called 911 at 9:16 pm and told the responding officers Robert was verbally abusing her and the children. LE said Mary was visibly intoxicated, confused and disoriented.

May 12, 2010 - Robert filed for divorce.

May 13, 2010 - LE responded to a domestic disturbance. Robert said Mary was intoxicated. A state domestic incident report was filed. There were several police visits to the Bedford estate in recent years according to police incident reports.

May 15, 2010 - The vehicle Mary was driving was stopped outside of St. Patrick’s School on Greenwich Road near the couple’s home and she was arrested and charged with DUI.

Mary Kennedy was ordered to undergo evaluation for potential alcohol abuse and was due in Town Court on July 22 2010.

At the time of her sentencing, family and friends spoke out in support of her.

Mary Kennedy was sentenced to 90 days of psychiatric care after her DUI plea.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201007...nedy-Jr.-sues-wife-for-divorce?nclick_check=1
 
raeann said:
NOOOO!! absolutely not....the marriages are not "cursed"!!! The Catholic Church is not in any way identified with placing "curses" on anyone or anything. The more accurate and appropriate term might be the second marriage is not sanctioned by the Church. However, most who are concerned with that problem at all are able to get a first marriage officially annulled. There are many THOUSANDS of divorced Catholics who still attend the Church and are in perfectly happy marriages with perfectly fine family lives. I know personally a large number of them and NONE of them would say that their lives are like "living in hell" in any way at all.
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Could Robert's marriage to Emily be annulled after 12 years of marriage?

I think Robert and Mary were forced to have a civil ceremony because Robert was divorced and the church wouldn't sanction their marriage but I certainly would not like that.

It's possible the newlyweds didn't want to get married in the church because Mary was pregnant, but I don't know why they wouldn't want to get married in the "Kennedy Church" if they had the opportunity.

The rules have changed regarding family life in the Catholic Church and Robert's divorce from Emily and remarriage to Mary occurred roughly 30 years ago.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
Could Robert's marriage to Emily be annulled after 12 years of marriage?

I think Robert and Mary were forced to have a civil ceremony because Robert was divorced and the church wouldn't sanction their marriage but I certainly would not like that.

It's possible the newlyweds didn't want to get married in the church because Mary was pregnant, but I don't know why they wouldn't want to get married in the "Kennedy Church" if they had the opportunity.

The rules have changed regarding family life in the Catholic Church and Robert's divorce from Emily and remarriage to Mary occurred roughly 30 years ago.
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The length of the marriage has no bearing no the ability to have the marriage annulled. A Catholic annulment is not like a civil annulment. It just means that all conditions were not present at the time of the marriage for it to be a recognized sacramental union. Something was lacking on the part of one of the parties, or in both. It doesn't mean the marriage didn't exist. Catholics can continue to receive sacraments after divorce, but not after remarriage unless they have obtained the Catholic annulment. If they marry again, the marriage is not recognized as a Catholic marriage, but this has no bearing on the children. In fact, 1 news article said that all 4 of the couple's children were baptized in the church where her funeral was held.

Nothing has really changed in the Catholic Church's teachings on marriage in the last 30 yrs. Annulments have always been around. They seem to be easier to get in some dioceses than they are in others, and money may talk. However, Robert Jr was not able to get an annulment of his marriage to Emily before marrying Mary. If they wished, he could have pursued an annulment later and then have his marriage to Mary blessed in a Catholic ceremony. I haven't read that he did this, but it is possible.

Some people think the Church has changed its policy on marriage, but this is not true. Maybe it's because here seem to be more divorced Catholics and the divorced aren't ostracized. They never should have been, but some individuals may have looked down on them.
 
lizzybeth said:
Jacie Estes, I'm not Catholic but I am Christian. My ex-husband was Catholic. From what I understand the Catholic church doesn't "recognize" a subsequent marriage after one has been married before unless it has been annulled by the church.
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Perhaps it was a typo, but Catholics are Christians as well. Any faith which follows the teachings of Christ is considered Christian. There are over 38,000 known Christian denominations.

Here's an accurate list of the largest Christian denominations from Wikipedia
 
SwampMama said:
It has been stated that Mary was found hanging. I will be interested to hear the details as they emerge.

I cant help but be curious and slightly suspicious based on the decades long disregard , arrogance, or abuse of women by the kennedys.


<sbm>

Oh there are more stories of similar things and tragedies but I think this is enough to show the family is definitely worthy of a second look when it comes to unattended deaths and accidents.
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Don't forget Michael Kennedy who repeatedly raped his kids' 14 year old babysitter, and the press had the gall to call it "an affair." Then there is the Kennedy cousin on Ethel's side, Michael Skakel who killed his teenage neighbor Martha Moxley. Her family had to wait 27 years for justice. And don't forget Joseph Kennedy's "annulment" through the Catholic church of his 12 year marriage which produced children. He wanted to make his marriage "null and void" in the eyes of the church so he could marry his next wife in the church. Yet didn't bother to let the first wife know for more than three years that in the eyes of their church, they were never even married! And we all know about John Kennedy who cheated on his wife on a regular basis, in the very house she occupied, just like his dad did to his mom. He even seduced a female intern right out of college and "forced" her to have sex with other men like she was some kind of prostitute! Yes, that family is cursed alright. Cursed in that they cannot see the value and humanity in women. I have no respect for them at all.
 
The Farm said:
Sorry all but Kennedy fan here. This family could sit home on the butts and live the high life but they were, are and still continue to serve the public. They do more good then people even realize.

They are also human like all of us with a huge family. The media just loves to jump on anything Kennedy.
I find this terribly sad and I did read that she left a note. Why she chose to hang herself is anyones guess. I was shocked when I heard it. Her children are young and my thought are with them.
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It would be nice if they could "do good" for society without doing so much bad to their women at the same time.
 
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