NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#28

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Trooper said:
this phantom was also able to use Gerards computer that morning ... how neat is that?
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Well, some Phantoms can be very clever... even more so than Gerard. ... but hey, that wouldn't be too hard now would it?:floorlaugh:
 
Isabellnecessary said:
But what if she hasn't been murdered yet? We are only assuming that she's been murdered earlier in the evening. We actually have no time of death as of yet...
She's going out to meet someone, perhaps one of GBC's mistresses want to chat about something... perhaps ABC is meeting a lover?

Perhaps she calls the FIL... Perhaps the reason she calls the FIL is because she wants to talk to the FIL and she can't do it on her phone because perhaps it's missing...

Then she leaves the house to meet him at the bridge.... where the cars are possibly seen... She leaves the house much later than we all think for whatever reason...
Things go wrong, she dies... GBC is covering for someone else... someone.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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lol your lucky to be allowed to say anything like this especially on here. Usually members on here are shot down for not agreeing that GBC did this. At this stage i'm undecided with what happened and who did it or whoelse could have been involved. One reason is i wasn't there to see what happened, next reason is i'm not into judging people and next reason is because i'm not the judge (who would have all evidence) of what happened
 
Trooper said:
Such a busy man, Gerard... googling the fifth amendment, for what purpose , one can only roll ones eyes at, googling self incriminating behaviour, AND texting Allison.. getting the kids up, checking the weather, remembering to be Bruce every now and then.. my goodness me.

and what a mistake that was.. he texts, because there is no chance of her answering if he rings voice..
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.....and let's not forget-fighting off caterpillars!!
 
Bayside said:
248 Posts and you have withdrawn, sounds like my type of withdrawn lol.
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Yes 284 posts a drop in the ocean compared to the main players I would suggest. If I were an academic or a regular/seasoned poster I could probably voice my out of the box, opinions and be accepted and complimented as has just happened to a new poster.
I am not so I rarely say what I think. As I accept this as there this nothing I can do anything about it.Withdrawn is probably not the word for my position. But glad you found humor in it. Sort of made my point. IMO:waitasec:
 
Bayside said:
You know you are right about the wacky therapy here lol, so very true. I know I have kept some things to myself for a long time and this case brought them out. It has been a sort of therapy to let things out, now time to close the door ont that stuff again and move on for me haha.
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Much like Hawkins said (and obviously we are all in love with you Hawkins :woohoo:) could write a book on some of the life stories we have shared over the past months....
 
Ok, trying to go back to basics of what was first reported by Gerard, even though that's hard, as he apparently gave at least 2 different stories...

If she went for a walk around 10pm Thursday night, why we would he be sending her texts the next morning saying 'Hope you slept well'?

If it's the morning walk he was worried about (as was also reported many times) why would he call police only an hour or so after she failed to return? Wouldn't you call everyone else, go out looking (ok maybe he couldn't do that due to the children), but really, to call the police after an hour??
 
DrWatson said:
First post on here, but have been reading most of the threads since the event itself.

Several points to make, if you will indulge me:

1. There are an awful lot of "What if..." scenarios that get suggested, and which then almost take on a life of their own. But most of them are pure supposition. Yes, we all love to speculate, but some of the more outlandish ones are just that - outlandish. I mean - blowing up a random photo, taken from a video, and trying to read things into a skin line as to whether or not it is a scratch or a welt or just a skin crease.... We have to assume that the QPS would have seen anything like that right from day 1.

2. All the rumours about missing hands, and various other body parts - I've heard all sorts of explanations, suppositions, and theories. I've also heard them locally - I live only a short distance from the house in Brookfield - and the rumours and scuttlebutt are just as active here in the community of real life as they are in the online communities.

3. While several people have pointed out that GBC is innocent until proven guilty, it would seem that many in here have him marked as guilty with NO presumption of innocence at all. A lot of comments have been made that are quite derogatory, and that could be construed as prejudgement. It would make a juror's task all the more difficult if he or she had read any of these threads. This includes all the comments about his presumed psychological profile and character type - most of those being from people who have never met him.

4. An amazing amount of innuendo (that's not an Italian suppository, by the way) has been written based on perceptions of how certain people spoke, behaved, walked, stood, what clothes they wore, or whatever. Hardly scientific evidence...

5. Many holes in arguments and contradictions have been overlooked.

- just because GBC's iPhone shows calls, Google searches, etc - it still has to be proved that it was HIM that did them. And that would not be easy to prove. What's to say that it wasn't somebody else, such as one of the kids, Allison herself, or somebody completely different? Unlikely? Sure. But impossible? Nope.

- the alleged blood in the car as opposed to the defence claim that there were no injuries apart from a chipped tooth. That has yet to be explained, and there will be details from the autopsy that we do not yet know.

- tossing somebody off a bridge, especially one that high, would almost certainly result in a broken bone or three. We don't know if any were detected at autopsy. On the other hand, if she were either buried, or otherwise hidden in the bush up near the scout camp, then washed down the creek during the very heavy rainfall we had over that weekend, there may be NO broken bones. And the body would have "hung up" on the outer radius bank, where it was found, possibly by roots, or other snags. A few more metres and she would have been out in the main stream of the Brisbane River. I know the area well.

- the person who allegedly gave details of seeing the car in the driveway at night, with "four doors open" or "something being loaded in the back" I find hard to credit. I drive past there several times a day, and it is so well hidden, set back off the road, and just before the crest of a hill if heading outbound that one's eyes need to be on the road. Yes, I can cast a VERY quick glance up the driveway, but the view lasts all of about half a second if that.

There are several other theories that have been aired on here, which certainly make for interesting reading. But I wonder if anyone has actually stopped to wonder if there just MAY be other possibilities? I agree that things do not look good for GBC. I agree that the phone records may be quite damning - but it still has to be proved that it was him.

Just to state my own credentials here, so you can take my comments in perspective - I have certain professional qualifications that the mods are aware of, particularly in the areas of medical, scientific, forensic, and anatomical knowledge. I have also been involved in several murder cases (and attempted murder) in two completely separate capacities: (a) a material witness - i.e. a witness to facts only, where I have been involved in the case in my professional capacity, and (b) as an expert witness. This latter category is the only witness category where you testify an opinion in addition to facts.

While I enjoy speculating as much as everyone else in here, I do think that some of the flights of fancy get a bit carried away, and particularly now that the case is before the courts, we need to be very careful about what is suggested, even if it is "covered" by "my opinion only" etc.

I also think that given the expertise in here, particularly in regard to the ability to suggest scenarios, then shouldn't we also be wondering if somehow there could be other answers?

I am not a friend or supporter of GBC, although we have had family dealings with him and his business regarding a couple of house rentals. But I am not suggesting that he IS innocent - all I'm saying is that too many in here have already got the solution all cut and dried. Minds should be kept open, and inquiring. Let's see what the evidence is as it comes to light, but in the meantime, is it just possible that the entire thing may not be quite what it seems?

Apologies for the long-winded first post. It's the accumulation of a lot of lurking and reading, but only just having got my credentials verified with the mods.
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Thanks, I really enjoyed your post. I have openly said here that I thought up until GBC's bail hearing that he was 100% innocent. I've since changed my mind, as the "compelling" evidence provided by the prosecution is indeed very compelling, and I truly believe the QPS would have done their homework and exhausted other lines of inquiry prior to arresting a father of three. In the case of Max Sica I believe there were 1500 lines of inquiry undertaken by QPS prior to their arrest of him many, many years after his alleged murder of the Singh children - and like Sica's case, GBC's case "appears" to be based on circumstantial evidence. They arrested GBC after only eight weeks. I am assuming at GBC's bail hearing we heard only some of the evidence they have against him - enough to deny him bail - and that there is other evidence they have that will come out at a later hearing or at the trial. Of course, I personally have no idea.

However, as you've suggested we be open-minded and consider other possibilities, I'll try to (briefly) say what I thought when Allison first went missing and was then subsequently found. My first instinct (I worked for GBC many many years ago) was that he owed a lot of money to someone unsavoury or someone motivated enough to get money back from him through whatever means it took (I wasn't at all aware at this time that he was indeed heavily in debt). I thought that possibly GBC and ABC had been receiving threats to pay up, and that the life of his wife or his children's had been threatened, and on multiple occasions. I decided that "they" had somehow got to Allison (by turning up to the house that evening), and either committed the crime there and then or took her away (possibly in one of the family cars), and then I thought that GBC's silence was because of the very real threats that had been made, and that he didn't say a word to police for fear of what could happen to him or his children. I even thought that GBC might have had no idea initially what had actually happened to Allison if they'd taken her from the house, until she was found. If I had continued to follow this train of thought after the evidence at the bail hearing, I guess the facetime call to his father could be explained away that he had called his father to say what had happened and that they had hurt or taken Allison but he couldn't call the police because of threats to his family and that he lawyered up because he would have always been a POI regardless of circumstance being the last one to see her alive; it could explain OW's comment to media that they wanted Allison "returned"; that the calls to the insurance company by both ABC and GBC prior to her death were because of the threats that had been made, and that GBC's calls to the insurance company after she was found were because he desperately needed the insurance money to pay "these people" out; and that the google searches were made so that he didn't act like he was guilty or lying because he did know what had really happened (just not committed by him), and that he was simply following instructions from whoever actually did this to say nothing, just pay up. Prior to the bail hearing, I'd even explained the Indooroopilly crash away that he had possibly seen someone from that evening in the vicinity just prior to his crash, or he was just completely stressed out about what had happened. I thought the affair was irrelevant initially. It's just really interesting how when you believe in someone's innocence or guilt, how you can explain away certain things so that they support your belief. That said, I don't follow this train of thought. If my original train of thought was in any way accurate, GBC would have spoken up by now. IMO, he did this, and I've come to this conclusion based on the fact that the QPS have arrested him and charged him with Allison's murder and the compelling evidence that was presented at the bail hearing. I trust the QPS have a very solid case. I think I've just written a novella, sorry everyone. All MOO.
 
Trooper said:
Of course he has to text her... he has to have a record of this, as well. He has to appear anxious and a little bit worried.. this is what men with missing wives do..

but then something forces an error, and he has to ring the police at 7.14am. the timing is all shot to hell, and things go downhill for Gerard after that.
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Agreed, he needs to be seen as the loving attentive husband. He knows damn well she won't pick up the phone (is there a record of him having rung it, repeatedly?) and sends these concerned messages to bolster his defence.

So why was he so stupid as to have 'allegedly Googled "self-incrimination" at 7.09am on April 20'. I can understand that the face-time call to NBC was done in the heat of the moment, when he may not have been thinking straight, but the self-incrimination/taking the fifth searches show him to be a douche of the first order, and a very dumb one at that.

It will be interesting to know of other phone records, e.g. did he really call any of her friends and family between 6.41 and 7.14am? And why didn't he just get in his car and drive the streets to ensure that she hadn't fallen over and hurt herself before jumping to the conclusion that she had, in fact, gone missing?
 
Rational said:
I agree with you Hawkins. How good would it be if the stories of the Circle of Repair could somehow be collated in memory of Allison and set as a high school text and proceeds to go to the girls??
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This is an awsome idea. Can it be done. Back to you moderator. Has anything like this happened in your experience????
 
I don't have an iphone, so don't know how these face time calls exactly work. But I would assume you wouldn't make one to someone in the middle of the night unless you knew they would be awake. Just saying...
 
Indromum said:
I know this will have been discussed, but because I am away and on my iPhone, I haven't managed to read all posts...Maybe someone else answered NBC's phone on the night...who was staying at their house...I know I leave mine in the kitchen overnight so I am not tempted to check it if I wake at night.
From what I heard online from tonight's news the family are refusing to talk to QPS.
Sorry to start Greg off again! Lol
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Yes correct,

Detective Sergeant Roddick said:

"They do not know what was said (on that call) as it is not a conventional call, I have previously asked (NBC) for a further interview and statement to obtain further details relevant to the investigation; however, he has declined my requests."

Like father like son???????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lBKzAcNZkAQ
 
angel1 said:
lol your lucky to be allowed to say anything like this especially on here. Usually members on here are shot down for not agreeing that GBC did this. At this stage i'm undecided with what happened and who did it or whoelse could have been involved. One reason is i wasn't there to see what happened, next reason is i'm not into judging people and next reason is because i'm not the judge (who would have all evidence) of what happened
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Hi Angel, I'd be interested to know what verdict you would give if you were on the jury, and had only the information that has become available to date
(from verified sources that is). I'm not trying to be funny, just interested. I have been trying to decide this for myself, and as yet haven't been able to answer myself. No point in asking those that are 100% sure, so I haven't.
What if there is no further information released at the trial. Is what we have been given to date, enough for a guilty verdict ?? (don't answer if you don't want to)
 
Ms Adler said:
Agreed, he needs to be seen as the loving attentive husband. He knows damn well she won't pick up the phone (is there a record of him having rung it, repeatedly?) and sends these concerned messages to bolster his defence.

So why was he so stupid as to have 'allegedly Googled "self-incrimination" at 7.09am on April 20'. I can understand that the face-time call to NBC was done in the heat of the moment, when he may not have been thinking straight, but the self-incrimination/taking the fifth searches show him to be a douche of the first order, and a very dumb one at that.


Ms Adler.. there is no point in asking me why he is so stupid.. its been a conclusion that has never let me and has only been reinforced in quantum leaps as time goes by.. even I , committed cynic and proud snorter at the Gerards of this world have been sadly disappointed myself at my severe underestimation of the depth, length and width of stupidity this Gerard fellow can attain and still manage to draw oxygen.
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Ms Adler said:
Agreed, he needs to be seen as the loving attentive husband. He knows damn well she won't pick up the phone (is there a record of him having rung it, repeatedly?) and sends these concerned messages to bolster his defence.

So why was he so stupid as to have 'allegedly Googled "self-incrimination" at 7.09am on April 20'. I can understand that the face-time call to NBC was done in the heat of the moment, when he may not have been thinking straight, but the self-incrimination/taking the fifth searches show him to be a douche of the first order, and a very dumb one at that.

It will be interesting to know of other phone records, e.g. did he really call any of her friends and family between 6.41 and 7.14am? And why didn't he just get in his car and drive the streets to ensure that she hadn't fallen over and hurt herself before jumping to the conclusion that she had, in fact, gone missing?
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You're right about he should have rung it repeatedly if he was really worried. If my kids / hubby don't answer at a time when I know they should {home alot later than they should etc} they usually find there phone with something like 30 missed calls from ME!!!! haha. Like the time there was a horrific accident on the route my hubby drives hom from work... he was 2 hours late and his phone was not answering. I was convinced he was now dead. He arrived home soon after but he'd left his phone in the truck at the worksite which was an hour away. I prewarned him what he'd find on his phone the next morning. He did see the funny side of it, but was sorry for worrying me.
 
DrWatson said:
OK - thanks for clarifying that, Trooper. Although the defence team DID claim that the chipped tooth was the ONLY injury....



Yes - that is feasible. And I have thought along those lines myself, particularly the vomiting of blood. But the autopsy would have shown the cause of that.

The correlation between what the defence alleges are the autopsy findings, and the actual autopsy findings is the fly in the ointment for me at this stage.
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Thanks for the information Doc. I keep coming back to the "No visible EXTERNAL injuries" which doesn't necessarily mean it's not possible the blood came from an internal source. Time will tell I guess.
 
Hi Dr Watson,

I enjoyed your post and I am also trying to keep an open mind.

I heard however that some teenagers or young people came forward to explain that the screams could have been them , all rumours of course. Imo
 
Detect said:
Just dawned on me how funny it would be if he was reading our posts. :what:

What if he developed a pseudonym and was actually one of the 'posters'

:lurk:

I think I'm starting to let my imagination get away from me !!!
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No computer for him for some time and even then internet "in his dreams"
 
DrWatson said:
Fair point. And I am not a legal expert, but I would presume that the defence would be given access, under the rules of discovery, to the autopsy report at least.... Or if not, and there WERE other injuries, then surely the prosecutor would have countered the defence's claim there and then?

Are they allowed to withhold the autopsy findings from the defence team?

How did the defence team know there was a chipped left lower tooth?
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Thanks for the information! They just said no signs of EXTERNAL injury, I can't get past the specific wording of that so that's what makes me think there could have been internal injuries and it may not be obvious to most that internal blood could show up externally.

ETA: I don't think they've withheld the autopsy findings, I think the lawyer was being clever. It's what they do.
 
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