Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #16

Bobarino said:

Thanks. Your last sentence sounds like it came from a professional in the business?

But is this sentence not self-contradictory?:
"I think his father knew Jordan couldn't be trusted to keep his mouth shut and disposed of Natalee himself."

Joran knowing of the father's deeds at all, then left the father at the mercy of his son who couldn't be trusted. Even if the father didn't tell him where...Joran still new that he disposed of the body--if he did.

But again if there was a much larger conspiracy involved, then the father knew he would have nothing to worry about RE both his actions and that of his son.

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True...but...it created a symbiotic relationship as long as daddy was alive.

I'm sure as long as daddy kept Joran relatively happy and protected with his connections and financed every now and again...Daddy hoped he had nothing to worry about....the dad probably stressed over it so much it killed him.


I can even understand how his dad could have covered it up for him.....

Living in a tourist area... son having different girls every night. I don't know about you, but I don't exactly have a high opinion of the teenage girls I see on spring break YKWIM. Maybe dad believed it was an accident and didn't want an accident, involving some drunken tramp to ruin the rest of his son's life...??


*** I am NOT calling Natalee a drunken tramp! I am simply suggesting what may have gone through his fathers head that lead to cover for his son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GetSmart said:

Does anyone remember when JC commented about the "running water" she said something like " a drip . drip.. constantly dripping.

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Yes -- and I thought it must be like torture to listen to at night.

Bobarino said:

Thank you FLNY for finding and posting this article. It may clarify a few things. But the google translation i spoor. I wonder Rotterdam can do it? But iwill understnad if he does not have the time.

I don't agree with evreything said there and there expert has not examined JVDS, and so there is mostly generalities. She says that he scoped out Stephany because she came from a wealthy family. If she undrestood things, she would know, the last person you want to mess with is someone whose father ran for national vice-president.

But what may be of value is her descriotion of Joran abusing his younger siblings and such--assuming the paper verified this and that it is not based on rumors. It says that Joran stole money from his own mother, e.g.

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I'm sure that Joran didn't know who Stephany's father was, at least right away. What he did see and targeted on was a young woman with money to gamble, who was winning! I think once he got his target, nothing else mattered but the money!

MOO

Eileen O'B said:

Even more than you wanted to know on parent-child privilege.

Assuming this case is still good law, it appears that there is a privilege under the Napoleonic Code:

"The Napoleonic Code also prevented the disclosure of confidences between family members." J. Tyson Covey, Note, Making Form Follow Function: Considerations in Creating and Applying a Statutory Parent-Child Privilege, 1990 U. Ill. L.Rev. 879, 883. The civil law countries of Western Europe including France, Sweden, and the former West Germany also recognize a privilege covering compelled testimony from family members."

http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/103/103.F3d.1140.95-7354.96-7530.96-7529.html


So, if Peru follows the Napoleonic Code, there is probably a parent-child privilege, unlike here in the States.

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Tks so much for that info. Most people, including myself, do assume that most people will lie like hell in order to protect a loved one no matter how heinous the crime. Any information from very close relatives is therefor taken with a grain of salt.

Linda7NJ said:

True...but...it created a symbiotic relationship as long as daddy was alive.

I'm sure as long as daddy kept Joran relatively happy and protected with his connections and financed every now and again...Daddy hoped he had nothing to worry about....the dad probably stressed over it so much it killed him. That has crossed my mind too!


I can even understand how his dad could have covered it up for him.....

Living in a tourist area... son having different girls every night. I don't know about you, but I don't exactly have a high opinion of the teenage girls I see on spring break YKWIM. Maybe dad believed it was an accident and didn't want an accident, involving some drunken tramp to ruin the rest of his son's life...??


*** I am NOT calling Natalee a drunken tramp! I am simply suggesting what may have gone through his fathers head that lead to cover for his son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Maybe Dad wanted to believe it was an accident. I say that because he would have certainly known all joran's history.

Eileen O'B said:

I owe you an apology. You are entirely correct, there is a parent-child privilege under the Napoleonic Code. I posted a reference cite above.

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Silly you. You do not owe me an apology at all. I could have been wrong, went my by old age memory. Thank you for doing a bit more in depth research.

Linda7NJ said:

I don't think he meant to murder either of the girls. Not because he has a conscious, but because murder is rather inconvenient, he's lousy at it, it can be messy, ...etc.... Women are objects as is everyone else around him. He uses people and when he's done or they have nothing left to give, he moves on. he even tossed his dad under the bus as soon as he died.

I think his father knew Jordan couldn't be trusted to keep his mouth shut and disposed of Natalee himself. Jordan has no idea where the remains are. His dad knew his own son was capable of blackmailing him, blaming him...etc..


I believe he's a psychopath with frontal lobe damage. He hasn't any executive functionality. None...zero.

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I do wonder if his father, while alive, managed to keep Joran's murderous tendencies under control somehow. It is just odd that no other murders have been discovered(yet).

FLNY said:

Just found an interesting report from a Dutch newspaper, entitled: "Prototype of a classic psychopath" which states that VDS was in therapy as a youth.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1386606.ece/Prototype_van_een_klassieke_psychopaat

"Joran van der Sloot (22) exhibits virtually all the major features of a classic psychopath...

Also, Peter R. de Vries believes ... Van der Sloot in his youth already struggling to curb his aggression. 'He went to a psychologist because he abused his brother. Later he was arrested because [of] a drifter he had thrown off a bridge. He himself is not under control.'...

His mother has he cheated a few times, he borrowed money and cheated her. Among them are many difficulties"

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Linda7NJ said:

I don't believe Jordan is a product of bad parenting. While I am sure lots of mistakes were made, none could possibly explain Joran's depravity. IMO

I believe his problems are organic in nature.

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If there is truth to both of the above posts, then I feel that Joran's parents are to blame (to an extent) for the crimes he has committed. The trouble is I don't have an answer as to what they could have done to stop it.

Except, knowing the mental health of their son, the extent they went to to keep Joran from being charged in the crime against Natalee is inexcuseable imo. I don't know how to reconcile what they were thinking. If they had clues to what he was capable of before, do they think it's okay that he go around killing girls/women?

It would be their sadness/tragedy to accept this about their son but does it make it better to compound having a son like that by adding to his legacy the fact that he kills people? I don't understand how they felt they could hide/keep this from happening again?

FLNY said:

I'm sure that Joran didn't know who Stephany's father was, at least right away. What he did see and targeted on was a young woman with money to gamble, who was winning! I think once he got his target, nothing else mattered but the money!

MOO

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iirc at the beginning, SF's friend or someone who knows JVS said that he had met SF gambling, chatted with her and she told him her father was a business man with money.

I can't remember the context of the reported conversation. Does anybody recall hearing this early report?

Woe.be.gone said:

iirc at the beginning, SF's friend or someone who knows JVS said that he had met SF gambling, chatted with her and she told him her father was a business man with money.

I can't remember the context of the reported conversation. Does anybody recall hearing this early report?

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I also remember a report of a conversation between SR and Joran where she told him she was not interested in having a relationship. Maybe it was this same conversation. It was very early on. Same conversation where the friend said SR was struggling with her sexuality. Very early report.

jilly said:

Ita.

That is strange because he had supposedly paid for 2 wks, didn't he?

Didn't we read that he wasn't even registered to play in the tournament?

So I guess he had to get out of Aruba quickly because of the scheduled "therapy"/and/or extortion. Looks like he just pizzed away the $25k (less air fare to get there and possibly back) on gambling awaiting the Tournament?
I just looked up air fare Aruba to Peru - ($850-$1000 return)

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Yes it's been reported he had paid for two weeks at the hotel but ironically part of the reason the employee went to his room (and found Stephany) was due to him not paying for two days. So it would seem his room rent was up the day after he left. I thought the phone call he'd received at the hotel was regarding him not showing up for something pertaining to the tournament. I could be wrong though not having the link handy. MOO

OT but to anyone that saw that post before I got it deleted ( I just deleted a post) I'm very sorry. The Grand Jury PDF came out for the Sandra Cantu case. I posted in wrong thread. I apologize.

rotterdam said:

Tks so much for that info. Most people, including myself, do assume that most people will lie like hell in order to protect a loved one no matter how heinous the crime. Any information from very close relatives is therefor taken with a grain of salt.

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Bad idea though. Molehills turn into mountains. One time when I was 13 and I swear this is true - the other girl had an idea to steal from a store similar to K'Mart. She showed me how to take these flowered bell bottom pants into the dressing room and hide them on my body and walk out the store with them. I have no idea why I went along with this because, probably if I would have asked my parents, eventually I could have bought something similar. Anyway, I carried this out successfully.

Next I had the problem of what to tell my parents about where I got these cool bell bottom pants. So, I told them that _____ grandmother had bought them for her but they were too big so _______ gave them to me. Lucky me! My mom picked up the phone to thank Mrs. ___________ for the lovely gift they had given her daughter. Mrs._________ said that she knew nothing about this gift.

Next thing I knew I was in the car with my dad and the bell bottoms driving up to the store. My dad tracked down the manager of the store and looked at me and told me to explain why I was returning the bell bottoms to the store. Luckily for me, the manager could not press charges he said because we were returning the pants (if he would have caught me, he would have called the police then they would have called my parents). Instead my parents were the police. That put an end to my short lived career of stealing stuff. My parents, although not perfect, tried to pay attention to what I was doing and since they knew right from wrong, they didn't let me slide.

To this day, I can't explain why I went along with ________. I thought she was cool so I just did. Flat out peer pressure. A few years later, that girl ended up in a heap of trouble but I lost track of her as she dropped out of school.

jilly said:

Ita.

That is strange because he had supposedly paid for 2 wks, didn't he?

Didn't we read that he wasn't even registered to play in the tournament?

So I guess he had to get out of Aruba quickly because of the scheduled "therapy"/and/or extortion. Looks like he just pizzed away the $25k (less air fare to get there and possibly back) on gambling awaiting the Tournament?
I just looked up air fare Aruba to Peru - ($850-$1000 return)

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This detail has been confusing too. I believe he paid two weeks on May 14 which would have been up until May 28. Therefore he would owe money by May 30. I've read that he paid the desk clerk prior to leaving on May 30 for his two late days but as he left, he said 'don't bother my girl, I'll be back'. Did he mean later that day? Or did he actually pay ahead again?

Also I thought I read that he spent a night or two at the Atlantic casino hotel first which would mean he checked into Hotel Tec later than May 14.

Does anybody have the scoop on these details? The reason is that if he owed the hotel money, why wouldn't they enter his room until Weds. and only after someone was trying to reach JVS? I'm thinking he must have given the hotel some of SF's money to keep them from entering his room for a few days.

Woe.be.gone said:

This detail has been confusing too. I believe he paid two weeks on May 14 which would have been up until May 28. Therefore he would owe money by May 30. I've read that he paid the desk clerk prior to leaving on May 30 for his two late days but as he left, he said 'don't bother my girl, I'll be back'. Did he mean later that day? Or did he actually pay ahead again?

Also I thought I read that he spent a night or two at the Atlantic casino hotel first which would mean he checked into Hotel Tec later than May 14.

Does anybody have the scoop on these details? The reason is that if he owed the hotel money, why wouldn't they enter his room until Weds. and only after someone was trying to reach JVS? I'm thinking he must have given the hotel some of SF's money to keep them from entering his room for a few days.

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What I'm basing my information on was the hotel employee noticing, after receiving the phone call for Joran, that he hadn't paid for the room for the past two days, so the employee went to the room and subsequently discovered Stephany's body. So according to that timeline it seems he had paid through the 30th, but by the time the call came in, he then owed for 2 days. MOO

panthera said:

I don't think he planned to murder her when he took her to the hotel room, but likely to drug her so she wouldn't remember what happened and she would wake up without the money. MOO

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oooo :woohoo:Light bulb!!!
Maybe she caught on to him trying to drug her... maybe he was trying to get drug in a drink or had already done it in the Jeep but she didn't want anything else to drink and wanted coffee or something like that and he JUST LOST IT!!!! Why won't anybody do what I want them to .. It isn't asking much geeeez I didn't want to KILL her I just wanted to drug her and steal her money and haul butt... she"d never catch up to me ..

You know Panthera we might be on to something here!!

GetSmart said:

I tell ya it gives me the creeps in the video shot of him in the limp wrist scene. You hear how people that are possessed change looks ect.. he looks so strange and even pale in that video....JMO

I had posted this before sorry about repeating myself but that stupid.. blank lost look could that be a split in his personality???

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I dont know if I can see correctly anymore. My daughter is mentally ill and behaves in ways that I do not recognize.
Bipolar with personality disorder does get worse with time. When he had that first girl friend to who he has written poetically, it may not have been visible yet.
It is entirely possible that he is mentally ill.

What if he has bipolar, with personality disorder and schizophrenia???? what if?
A normal person does not kill people. what if?
I still am not saying that he would not be punished - NO - I am not saying that at all. He should be punished in Peru.
But that illness as I know it...they are all brilliant, conning liars. That is for sure,
I took an intensive course and that runs through ALMOST ALL of them.

They can be medicated to have full lives, but some without medication can act out in dangerous ways. I dont know how to look at things anymore I really dont.
the things I see on these threads are enough to make my hair grow upwards.

GetSmart said:

oooo :woohoo:Light bulb!!!
Maybe she caught on to him trying to drug her... maybe he was trying to get drug in a drink or had already done it in the Jeep but she didn't want anything else to drink and wanted coffee or something like that and he JUST LOST IT!!!! Why won't anybody do what I want them to .. It isn't asking much geeeez I didn't want to KILL her I just wanted to drug her and steal her money and haul butt... she"d never catch up to me ..

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That is very close to what I think actually happened. MOO

panthera said:

That is very close to what I think actually happened. MOO

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I am really leaning that way too at this time..
But SOMETHING is still really wrong with him .. he is not right,

Wonder how the amphetamine, likely self-administered, affected the situation. She may have told him at some point that she ingested something to remain alert/awake, and if he had intended to slip her a date-rape drug, that information may have altered his plans.