NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

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telemag said:
So we are all trying to figure out what happened to Maura from the time she refused a ride, phone call for help, warm house, one or all the above. Either way she said no to all of them obviously and when BA offered to make a call she again said no. So the question that I have was what was Maura thinking. Probabley easier to guess the lottery numbers. I still can't help but wonder. From what I know about the area which is very little there was a house just across the street. For whatever reason she did not want to go there. Then there's BA's house right down the road. She obviously saw him pull in there or at least she most likely did. So within minutes or even seconds? she starts to walk. This is where things get fuzzy for all of us. Did she start to walk with the intentions of waiting for another ride offer? Was her only intention to just get the heck out of there because she didn't want to get in trouble? Was she thinking of going to a different house further away so LE could not find her? If she did have access to a phone who would she have called? When she said she called AAA did she realize she had no cell reception? This could be important in my mind because if she didn't even try to make a call this in my mind means she had no one to call and was not meeting with anyone. She did take her phone, but we have no way of knowing if she ever tried to call anyone. We also have the eye witness who says he saw someone who looked like Maura 5 miles down the road. If this is a real sighting then she was wandering for a long time. No one else has ever said they saw anyone. Is this because that road was so sparcely traveled? We all have so many questions and no one seems to have one answer to any of them!!.
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You pointed it out yourself.
Maura wasn't looking for help, it had nothing to do with being fearful of a old man driving a school bus. He asked her if he could get help for her not take her away on a field trip

Maura was not stranded in the middle of nowhere, there were two houses she could've thrown a rock at and hit from where her car wrecked (westmans across the street and Marottes right above her). Keep in my mind this was just after 7 p.m., and both these set of neighbors were home with lights on in their houses.

and I have asked this several times, where would maura go with anyone whom came along and offered a ride (Maura wasn't familiar with where she was specifically. Is she going to have someone drive her 2 1/2 hours back to amherst or 20-40 more miles east into the mountains for her?

Maura had just passed the swiftwater store about a mile before she wrecked. Wouldn't she head back west to the store to get help (It was open) and probably had lights on and cars in the parking lot.

Yet investigators (hired by the murray family) know for a fact she headed on foot east for at least 100 more yards (opposite direction of the swiftwater store).
 
snipped two points of interest:

scoops said:
Maura had just passed the swiftwater store about a mile before she wrecked. Wouldn't she head back west to the store to get help (It was open) and probably had lights on and cars in the parking lot.

Yet investigators (hired by the murray family) know for a fact she headed on foot east for at least 100 more yards (opposite direction of the swiftwater store).
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Yes, I always felt that heading back made the most sense - especially if she were to jog it. Can't see her jogging into the forest as night deepens, getting colder, and likely lots of stones kicked up onto the road after recent snow plowing.

Apart from tracking dog indicating she was heading east, what else indicated travel in that direction.... Possible she when east to check out BA's house, then turned back and ran toward swiftwater store...
 
once again, here is the first of two pictures from the accident scene.

IMG_9838 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I am literally standing in the spot (within a few inches) of where Maura's car ended up.

Look to the right in this picture and you will see a mailbox. The house that mailbox belongs is for a house that is actually up on a hill but directly above where Maura wrecked. There is a small tree-line, but if maura walked just 10 steps or got close to the mailbox, she would instantly see this house.

the little cabin like storage building on the left and driveway was the school bus driver's driveway. he and his wife both drove different buses and parked their buses right by the end of their driveway and by their storage facility. There is a street light right at the end of their driveway put in I believe by their city

In the next picture, I haven't moved from the spot Maura's car was, I just turned around to provide a visual perspective of what Maura would've seen looking west instead of east from her wreck site.
 
shot from same spot (where maura's car ended up) but now looking west and you can clearly see the westman's house on the right. If she hadn't felt comfortable going to a house for help, she could've walked on foot in the west direction and been to the swiftwater store in 10 minutes or so.


IMG_9824 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 
OldSteve said:
snipped two points of interest:



Yes, I always felt that heading back made the most sense - especially if she were to jog it. Can't see her jogging into the forest as night deepens, getting colder, and likely lots of stones kicked up onto the road after recent snow plowing.

Apart from tracking dog indicating she was heading east, what else indicated travel in that direction.... Possible she when east to check out BA's house, then turned back and ran toward swiftwater store...
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OldSteve,
The tracking dogs picked up her scent and headed east and actually lost the scent right at the turn for Bradley Hill Rd. Not to make things more confusing, but Bradley Hill Rd. is past the SBD's house and heads right (south) from where Maura wrecked from, so there is a third route Maura could've taken that night instead of just heading east or west.

I will post a pic right after this that I took standing on Bradley Hill Rd looking back west for perspective.

There is yet another house that actually sits on the corner of the turn south onto Bradley Hill Rd. off of Rt. 112 which maura was on when she wrecked. This particular corner house would've been very accessible for Maura to seek help from as this house wasn't tucked behind any trees or anything. It was right there next to both roads (nice looking house by the way not spooky at all). Matter of fact, that mailbox you can see on the first picture I posted. Just go about the length of a football field east from that mailbox and you are right at bradley hill road and this corner house I am talking about.
 
here is a picture from me standing on Bradley Hill Rd. The mailbox you see in this photo is not the same mailbox seen in the first photo I posted that was on the right side of the road (Same side maura wrecked on).

But instead, this mailbox you see in this photo belonged to the School bus driver. the turnoff for Bradley Hill rd. is just past his driveway and storage building.

IMG_9823 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

While Maura's scent didn't make it onto bradley Hill Rd. The tracking dog did have her scent along Rt. 112 right up to the point that you would've turned onto Bradley Hill Rd.

Important to note, that investigators knew the tracking dog would only get them about 100-yards of scent as they set the dog in motion to do its work.

So all of this that you hear about dog losing scent 100-yards away must mean that maura got into a car is nonsense, because the dog was going to lose the scent after 100 yards regardless of what really happened to maura. It has something to do with the time of year, and weather conditions that limited the dog's ability (crosswinds, etc.)
 
scoops said:
here is a link to the place.


http://www.seasonsnh.com/

the couple maura called was dominic and linda salamone
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Thanks Scoops, you're alright in my book. :) OK so I know we don't agree that maura was to meet someone, but two things I'm curious about. 1. why rent a condo if you are only going to be by yourself and 2. who was going to pay for this?
 
telemag said:
Thanks Scoops, you're alright in my book. :) OK so I know we don't agree that maura was to meet someone, but two things I'm curious about. 1. why rent a condo if you are only going to be by yourself and 2. who was going to pay for this?
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I'm not 100 percent convinced we know the motives for Maura calling the owners of this condo.

I say that because it is known that Maura had very limited money to begin with. Using that money to blow on a condo isn't smart unless you no longer care about money issues (just saying as I continue to believe Maura may have been suicidal)

As I have said before, Bartlett, where this condo is, is the hub for hikers and mountain enthusiasts. She may have been seeking info about the area or looking for a spot to dump her car, even checking on current conditions or how busy the area was.

She may have literally wanted to rent a room, she may have also known to call there (I think she had stayed there with family before, likely her father) as a good source for getting some info for whatever her trip plans were. Maura wouldn't have even had to make it personal, she could've just asked them how busy they were at that time for instance
 
I think Maura was scouting different potential mountains to head off for and made a last minute decision to head towards the white mountains and the bartlett area.


Who knows why she came to decide Bartlett over the green mountains which are in vermont (Both areas -albeit almost three hours apart from one another - of which she had been too just a few months earlier).


She may have been trying to find out which one was more or less busy, which would provide her with privacy etc...
She may have wanted to rent a room and maybe she didn't.
 
Why would she call a condo owner if she wasn't interested in renting a condo? For all we know, she may have been looking to invite someone to join her for a few days. She was supposed to call her dad that night; if she really wanted a chance to think over what was bothering her, and she wanted to talk to her father, she could have siad, "Hey, I've got a condo up here. Could you come up and stay for a few days?" Or she may have felt a condo would be safer for a single female than a motel. I know I have an awful time trying to relax in a hotel or motel.
 
I always thought that Maura was going to meet someone that night and when I saw what Mr Renner had posted about Maura seeing this other man it made even more sense that she was going to meet someone. I don't think the fact that Maura didn't have a specific destination in mind meant she wasn't going to meet someone, not sure how that means she was on her own. What we do know is that she inquired about a condo and if I remember correctly from the TV show and the interview with the keeper that took the call, the lady mentioned that they were all booked up as in Maura wanted a room.

This Hoss guy also likes to hike too. I know that supposedly they were not seeing each other at the time, but how does anyone know this to be true. It seemed like Maura was taking care of all the plans for some reason. Some may think because she was going alone and this may be true, but it also may have been because Maura had more time to make the necessary arrangments as in phone calls, reservations etc. Also, and this is just my opinion maybe this man was married or had a girlfriend and wasn't able to make the arrangments.

Things were know for sure. Maura inquired about renting a condo, Maura wanted to go hiking, Maura most likely had no money for a weeks trip to rent a condo to buy groceries etc, Maura bought enough liquor to last a couple people for a few days. This doesn't sound to me like someone who wanted to be alone or someone who wanted to commit suicide.
 
telemag said:
You could be right, but the fact he was driving a school bus should have made her feel a little more comfortable about him. You know I have always thought it a little strange as to how she responded to him. I mean not the fact that she maybe was scared, but how she was just a little too quick it seemed to want him gone. Maura seemed to immediately leave the scene almost like she knew where she wanted to go. Maura could have knocked on anybodies door for help. Up until today no one had any idea as far as Maura seeing another man although people had speculated and I was one of them. So now can we assume that it was possible that she was going to meet yet another man? I don't think that is too much of an assumption to make. Makes me wonder what else there is too know. Didn't at one time LE state they has someone in mind as far as who could have been responsible for Maura's disappearance?
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Any of this is possible, but my problem with her meeting someone is the lack of evidence of an email or phone call record of any correspondence. I guess it is possible she may have called a guy in NH from a public phone at school. I did wonder if she met someone up there from her summer vacations camping or maybe at the New Years Party in 2004. She could have showed up at an acquaintance's door that night without a warning or an invite, because of the accident.

I do think she was shaken from her second accident. I think she ran, because she had been drinking and it was her second crash within 2 days. She knew she could be in trouble. At the very least, she probably thought her dad would be livid. I have a feeling she didn't want him to be disappointed with her.
 
McSpy said:
Any of this is possible, but my problem with her meeting someone is the lack of evidence of an email or phone call record of any correspondence. I guess it is possible she may have called a guy in NH from a public phone at school. I did wonder if she met someone up there from her summer vacations camping or maybe at the New Years Party in 2004. She could have showed up at an acquaintance's door that night without a warning or an invite, because of the accident.

I do think she was shaken from her second accident. I think she ran, because she had been drinking and it was her second crash within 2 days. She knew she could be in trouble. At the very least, she probably thought her dad would be livid. I have a feeling she didn't want him to be disappointed with her.
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What lack of evidence? It took over 7 seven years for us to find out about her dating her asst. track coach? You would think that somebody would have made that front page news a long time ago. So how can anyone be sure there was no email and no phone calls when she known for using calling cards. Also remember that she was at a college, she could have used many different computers to log in to her yahoo, hotmail whatever account. For all we know there is an email account of hers out in cyberspace that will never be found that could possibley tell the whole story as to where she was really going and why.

Wanted to add, this Hoss guy said that "her phone calls stopped coming" so obviously this means they talked on the phone, what phone?? Was she using her cell or another phone? Were they emailing back and forth and if so how come we never heard about this? It seems that Marua was very good at leading a double life. Even her close friends said that there were things she never knew about her.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
Why would she call a condo owner if she wasn't interested in renting a condo? For all we know, she may have been looking to invite someone to join her for a few days. She was supposed to call her dad that night; if she really wanted a chance to think over what was bothering her, and she wanted to talk to her father, she could have siad, "Hey, I've got a condo up here. Could you come up and stay for a few days?" Or she may have felt a condo would be safer for a single female than a motel. I know I have an awful time trying to relax in a hotel or motel.
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the condo location is right near the hiking trails and mountains where hotels would not be so accessible to that.

We know she called the condo owners, we don't know for sure she attempted to rent a condo. The phone call lasted three minutes total.

Maura didn't have the kind of money to be gone a full week and living at a condo resort, she maybe had enough for one night only, even if they could rent a room for her which they couldn't.

If you are meeting someone, you kind of need to have a destination to meet set-up ahead of time.

She searched for one place in vermont and one place in New Hampshire that were three hours away from one another and her searches were taking place right up to the point she left.

does it really seem likely that she contacted a person and said let's meet in vermont, then called him/her back just a few minutes before she left her campus and said, no scratch that, lets meet in new hampshire instead.

If she was driving to meet someone in particular, wouldn't she be able to pinpoint this person's location within a three hour radius and not be back and forth with her search directions. This other person would say, hey come see me, I am in xxxx.
 
scoops said:
the condo location is right near the hiking trails and mountains where hotels would not be so accessible to that.

We know she called the condo owners, we don't know for sure she attempted to rent a condo. The phone call lasted three minutes total.

Maura didn't have the kind of money to be gone a full week and living at a condo resort, she maybe had enough for one night only, even if they could rent a room for her which they couldn't.

If you are meeting someone, you kind of need to have a destination to meet set-up ahead of time.

She searched for one place in vermont and one place in New Hampshire that were three hours away from one another and her searches were taking place right up to the point she left.

does it really seem likely that she contacted a person and said let's meet in vermont, then called him/her back just a few minutes before she left her campus and said, no scratch that, lets meet in new hampshire instead.

If she was driving to meet someone in particular, wouldn't she be able to pinpoint this person's location within a three hour radius and not be back and forth with her search directions. This other person would say, hey come see me, I am in xxxx.
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Scoops, just because Maura was looking at different areas right up until the time she left didn't mean she had no idea where she was going when she got into her car. Obviously she did know once she started down the road. Remember that Maura told her school she would be gone for a week so maybe Maura and her "friend" were planning on hiking to different areas over the course of a week. Maybe she had a set course to take as far as which trails and mountains to climb and in what order. This could be the answer as to why she was "all over the place" on her computer.
 
telemag said:
I always thought that Maura was going to meet someone that night and when I saw what Mr Renner had posted about Maura seeing this other man it made even more sense that she was going to meet someone. I don't think the fact that Maura didn't have a specific destination in mind meant she wasn't going to meet someone, not sure how that means she was on her own. What we do know is that she inquired about a condo and if I remember correctly from the TV show and the interview with the keeper that took the call, the lady mentioned that they were all booked up as in Maura wanted a room.

This Hoss guy also likes to hike too. I know that supposedly they were not seeing each other at the time, but how does anyone know this to be true. It seemed like Maura was taking care of all the plans for some reason. Some may think because she was going alone and this may be true, but it also may
have been because Maura had more time to make the necessary arrangments as in phone calls, reservations etc. Also, and this is just my opinion maybe this man was married or had a girlfriend and wasn't able to make the arrangments.

Things were know for sure. Maura inquired about renting a condo, Maura wanted to go hiking, Maura most likely had no money for a weeks trip to rent a condo to buy groceries etc, Maura bought enough liquor to last a couple people for a few days. This doesn't sound to me like someone who wanted to be alone or someone who wanted to commit suicide.
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You make a good argument for this scenario. Maybe he or some other guy ended up getting the hotel room or cottage. Did LE check that? Maybe Maura was meeting him. They drove in separate cars.

If she made it to town somewhere, I have a feeling her cell phone's battery could have been dead by that time. She could have called someone from a public phone.

I doubt she was meeting Hoss. He seemed angry to me. I sure hope she wasn't meeting him.
 
telemag said:
Scoops, just because Maura was looking at different areas right up until the time she left didn't mean she had no idea where she was going when she got into her car. Obviously she did know once she started down the road. Remember that Maura told her school she would be gone for a week so maybe Maura and her "friend" were planning on hiking to different areas over the course of a week. Maybe she had a set course to take as far as which trails and mountains to climb and in what order. This could be the answer as to why she was "all over the place" on her computer.
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I wonder if she had hiking or snow boots in her car? Hiking in the winter can be very tricky and it can be dangerous, if you don't have the proper clothing.
 
McSpy said:
You make a good argument for this scenario. Maybe he or some other guy ended up getting the hotel room or cottage. Did LE check that? Maybe Maura was meeting him. They drove in separate cars.

If she made it to town somewhere, I have a feeling her cell phone's battery could have been dead by that time. She could have called someone from a public phone.

I doubt she was meeting Hoss. He seemed angry to me. I sure hope she wasn't meeting him.
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I'm up in the air about this guy too. I would like to know if he had a girlfriend at the time of her disappearance. It sounds like He was really into Maura and if she did happen to call him after a time and wanted to meet I doubt he would have said no. They seemed like the perfect match as far as hiking and such. He would have been the perfect one to contact for a nice hiking getaway.
 
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