Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

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notthatsmart said:
George and Cindys statements are not official lab reports.
LE Officers said it was human decomp? How do they know?
Paper towels? When you say expect. You are not stating it as fact.
Hair from a dead Caylee? I thought the fbi agent said she couldnt confirm it came from a dead human body.
Forensic results . You mean air sample? isnt that junk science?
Again you say consistent with. State it as fact if you know.
Who are these everyone people that have compared? Give me names.
I need to hear an expert say they can tell the difference. Can you send me a link to an expert report? perhaps fbi or someone reliable?
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It will not be one piece of evidence, and only one piece, that will prove KC was, at the very least, involved in her childs' death. It will be the massive accumulation of all the evidence discovered that will show her guilt. If we were LE maybe we could present one piece of evidence that proves this w/o a doubt. Since we are not able to do that we go with what we have access to. Discussing this possible evidence will have to tide us over until trial-then anyone who feels they're proven right by what the trial reveals can revel in their "I told you so" to other WSers.
MHO
 
RR0004 said:
Ok...this was probably the hardest news to bear today...but can you tell me where to locate the photo? I'll try and tackle that tomorrow. TIA
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Well, I hate to admit it, but I saw it on NG! It was the 1st time in a long time I got any useful info

Please don't hurt me! :slap:
 
Just Jayla said:
I saw a grainy one in the beginning of the FBI docs from today:

Page 19 of this pdf:

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0929/21147671.pdf

And there is another picture posted earlier in this thread that is in color and good quality-I see something more definate in the grainy pic, but it is grainy.
In the high quality pic, I see brown marks between the drivers side wheel well and the spare tire well.

I think GA siad the trash bag was to the left of the trunk, hence covering this stain when he found the car. So, maybe the trash bag leaked on the upholstery, or perhaps it was Caylee and KC covered the stain with the trash bag...
Maybe the brownish stuff in later pics of the trash bag was not from rust in the dumpster, it was mud, or perhaps decomp fluid, which is pinkish brown, and it got on the trunk upholstery already being dirty.

Or, liquid from Caylee got into the trunk and began to rust the metal of the body of the car that is directly underneath this thin upholstery, and rust/oxidation has wicked up through the trunk liner....

We shall see, or maybe we won't, if it is too inflammatory...
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The outline I saw was on the left side of the trunk, laying on it's left side. The knees looked drawn up, the arm only slightly bent at the elbow. When looking at the pic the "B" marker would be against her back, and the hand is below the black metal disc in the floor next to the "A" marker. The head was above the black metal disc.
In the NG pic the markers were not in the pic, so maybe there was more than 1 pic taken, or pic was altered?
 
ImI'm starting to have flashbacks to when the crime scene photos were released and everyone saw a skull or a squirrel or an omen or whatever. I hope that this would prove caylee was absolutely in her trunk. But without DNA that would be hard to prove. But they do have the hair with the death ring and her hiding the trunk from her dad and boyfriend. The borrowing of the shovel and her own admission she thought the car smelled like something died. Also her friends testimony and the texts and the fact that she was seen at the disposal site or at least not very far from by Tony.
 
If a bag of rubbish was placed on top of caylee in the trunk to hide her, maybe all the rubbish juice leaked out of bag over her and dripped down onto carpet creating her outline? maybe a little far fetched? ive been away for a week, has there been another doc dump?
 
notthatsmart said:
This is the same fbi lab tech that imagined an image on the duct tape.

This is the same fbi lab tech that is imagining an image of a child in a stain.

This is the same fbi lab tech that got her dna on the duct tape and contaminating the evidence.

Is she just out of school or what?

If I am wrong please correct me.
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Yeah, you're wrong. Wrong in three separate ways because none of them are the same person.

FBI agent who saw stain in trunk - Karen Cowan at the Tampa FBI office, not the lab (page 47 of this pdf http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21147519/detail.html)

FBI agent who saw heart shape on tape - Fontaine at the FBI lab (page 134 of the same pdf)

FBI agent whose DNA was on tape - Lorie Gottesman, works in the QDU (Questions Document Unit)...again, not in the FBI lab (page 348 of same pdf).
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXa3feK443I"]YouTube - Nancy 9/29/09 Casey Part 4[/ame]

The doctor on NG last night gave a pretty good explanation of the image in the trunk-very interesting!! IMO
 
notthatsmart said:
George and Cindys statements are not official lab reports.
LE Officers said it was human decomp? How do they know?
Paper towels? When you say expect. You are not stating it as fact.
Hair from a dead Caylee? I thought the fbi agent said she couldnt confirm it came from a dead human body.
Forensic results . You mean air sample? isnt that junk science?
Again you say consistent with. State it as fact if you know.
Who are these everyone people that have compared? Give me names.
I need to hear an expert say they can tell the difference. Can you send me a link to an expert report? perhaps fbi or someone reliable?
Click to expand...

Here is a link to the report about the wadded up paper towels found in the bag of trash from Tony's apartment found in KC's car trunk.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/jazlynsmum1/papertowelanalyis.png

On the paper towels was a substance consistent with pig or human decomposition. The substance was full of maggots.
 
Mohabi said:
I can't get you a link to an official report and I'm not a cop. I've smelled a decomposing human (thanks to archaic european pre-funeral practices) and I've smelled decomposing animals. They do NOT smell the same. You have to have smelled a dead human to know what one smells like. You never forget it because it doesn't compare to anything else.
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Thank you. I dont know how I could ever find out. I have smelled so many different dead animals and they all smell the same to me. Its horrible and discusting. I assumed because humans are animals they would smell the same. sorry

Why do we need scientific air samples and cadaver dogs if we people that can do the same thing?

I am just questioning this because it doesn't make sense to me and I want it to make sense. Are there other people in here that can confirm what this person is saying? I mean are there other people in here that have witnessed a decomposing human body? help me out.
 
notthatsmart said:
Rotten food. Its a simple as that. Rotten food is a decomposing body. I need a link to a report that says the smell comes from a decomposing human body.

I hear consistent with.
I hear decomposing body, but not decomposing human body.
I need to hear something official that says the smell came from a decomposing human body.
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Lifecycle: Adult blow flies lay eggs on or near rotting vegetation, manure or animals. Eggs hatch very quickly, and maggots begin to consume the decaying food. Maggots pupate and emerge as adults within a few days, depending on the temperature. Total developmental time from egg to adult can happen as quickly as a week, given good conditions, and depending on the species. They develop and consume food quickly, so much so that when a maggot has matured, it moves away from the food source to digest and prepare for pupation. During this movement away from the food, a maggot can travel quite far, up to 100 yards. This is when people most often discover the maggots as they disperse through a wall and across the living room floor.



Now, I don't recall any Rotting vegetation or Manure in KC's trunk. Therefore this leaves the Rotting animals to be the source of the maggots. In this case, it happened to be Caylee.:(
 
We have a lot of nurses on here that have stated the same thing. Maybe they will see this and weigh in. The dogs are specially trained so they can distinguish between human and animal decomp during their searches. A lot of info available on the internet about that. I learned a lot about cadaver and trailing dogs from the Laci Peterson case. That evidence was allowed in the trial.
 
ZsaZsa said:
If guess the entire FBI are incompetent. We shall see soon enough.
Either that or they have some VERY convincing evidence in order to get the Death Penalty back on the table.
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I was wrong about this. sorry

I felt more comfortable with it only being one.
 
notthatsmart said:
Thank you. I dont know how I could ever find out. I have smelled so many different dead animals and they all smell the same to me. Its horrible and discusting. I assumed because humans are animals they would smell the same. sorry

Why do we need scientific air samples and cadaver dogs if we people that can do the same thing?

I am just questioning this because it doesn't make sense to me and I want it to make sense. Are there other people in here that can confirm what this person is saying? I mean are there other people in here that have witnessed a decomposing human body? help me out.
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Although helpful and illuminating from people here who have smelled human decomp, you really don't need that. As pointed out by azlawyer last night, there are already sworn statments from GA, CA, LA, the towyard mgr., LE officers who first examined the car, and the results of the trained cadaver dogs who hit on the trunk of the car. IMO, that is persuasive enough.
 
notthatsmart said:
Thank you. I dont know how I could ever find out. I have smelled so many different dead animals and they all smell the same to me. Its horrible and discusting. I assumed because humans are animals they would smell the same. sorry

Why do we need scientific air samples and cadaver dogs if we people that can do the same thing?

I am just questioning this because it doesn't make sense to me and I want it to make sense. Are there other people in here that can confirm what this person is saying? I mean are there other people in here that have witnessed a decomposing human body? help me out.
Click to expand...

Three years ago, I walked in & found my neighbor dead. She had been dead for almost a week. That is a smell like NO other & you can't even compare it with the smell of a dead dog or cat.:(
 
I have smelt a decomposing cat. Absolutely vile.

And I have had the HORROR and MISFORTUNE to smell a body that had only been dead a few days. NOTHING EVER COULD PREPARE ME FOR IT. More repulsive and nightmarish than I could ever describe. And not a thing like the cat.

I think its because of the food we eat and the different bacteria in our bodies which are not present in animals.

Just thinking and writing about that smell has me gagging and my eyes watering a little. And it was more than 10 years ago.
 
notthatsmart said:
Thank you. I dont know how I could ever find out. I have smelled so many different dead animals and they all smell the same to me. Its horrible and discusting. I assumed because humans are animals they would smell the same. sorry

Why do we need scientific air samples and cadaver dogs if we people that can do the same thing?

I am just questioning this because it doesn't make sense to me and I want it to make sense. Are there other people in here that can confirm what this person is saying? I mean are there other people in here that have witnessed a decomposing human body? help me out.
Click to expand...

Cadaver dogs can smell the minutist amount of scent of human decomp,far beyond what a human could pick up.A huge decompositional event,such as the one in the trunk,is easy for a human to detect.The lighter scents,such as what was on the ground in the A's back yard,only a cadaver dog could detect.The air samples and having the cadaver dogs sniff the car were confirmation that it was ,indeed,human decomp. A dead child was found,not a dead pig,so connect the dots.
If you have ever smelled cat urine you know the difference between it and dog urine or human urine.You just know .Same thing with human decomp,versus any other animal.
 
100%Agave said:
Let me ask you a question....seriously.

Have you ever had any cooked food in your garbage that smelled like a dead body? It stinks maybe but not like a decomposing body.

The decomposition of a pig and a human are very similar. Decomposition of other animals differ from human. So it was a pig or human. That is why they use pig cadavers to simulate human body events. (I know, I know.....I saw it on CSI) Also science is never going to give you a 100% answer. You are going to get a consist with.

I researched all of this by doing a google search. I am sure that if you do so you will find a lot of information about decomposition of the human body and the air test used. We have all done our research and you will have to do yours.
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I've had raw chicken and raw pork and yes is does smell like a decomposing body. I've managed and owned restaurants and if the city misses a week on the dumpster, it is unbearable.

I will research this human decomposition smell . I wont ask anyone to give me a link to this anymore. sorry
 
notthatsmart said:
I've had raw chicken and raw pork and yes is does smell like a decomposing body. I've managed and owned restaurants and if the city misses a week on the dumpster, it is unbearable.

I will research this human decomposition smell . I wont ask anyone to give me a link to this anymore. sorry
Click to expand...

I thought you had not smelled a dead body?
 
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