WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

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There was only one assailant, as demonstrated quite well by a forensic analysis of the crime scene, done by someone who's been in the field for some 30 yrs and has no dog in this fight, so to speak.

He even analyzed the cuts on MK and from his detailed drawings, it's clear that one person likely inflicted the wounds, which was his conclusion. There were fewer wounds than I thought, so that was a surprise to me as well. From some of the tabloid descriptions it sounded like there were dozens of cuts on MK. But essentially there were 3 cuts and some bruises, with one of the cuts being the fatal one.

He lays it all out, with pictures, pointers to the ILE photos and blood spots, he explains the patterns, the direction of the blood, where the attack started, etc. It's interesting stuff for sure. I appreciate seeing the pictures side-by-side from when ILE first encountered the crime scene and then a month or so later, when they took pictures again. Unbelievable how many items were moved and how the scene was altered.

I count 4 wounds (the initial 3 plus the coup de grace), but that's still a far cry from the 44 wounds, 2 knives, and 3 assailants claimed elsewhere.

It's apparent to me that somebody (the lead investigator or Mignini) had a divine revelation of a group sex attack and then all interrogation and investigation was directed to prove that theory. For those who think we're still bashing Italy, let me say that premature assumptions can be and have been made everywhere.
 
I count (yes) 4 stab wounds, of which 1 is large, gaping and fatal, and 2 or 3 small slicing (non-fatal) wounds and the rest are bruises.

One person could absolutely have inflicted all the wounds and, in fact, according to the analysis by others outside of the ILE, one person did. That person being Rudy G.

wounds2.jpg
 
HERE'S a great summarization of the bra clasp and what happened to it, etc.

Did you know there were four people's DNA discovered on this clasp, it was left behind for 47 days, found in a pile of garbage with dust attached, and then discovered and passed around by a few crime scene collectors? The video is included on that page.
 
Yes there is. 3 profiles are unidentified

Has anyone seen a list of whom ILE targeted for DNA profiles and whom they did not? (I mean generally. I realize it's unlikely a complete list would be published.)

I was shocked to read that some of the housemates were never profiled, not even for elimination purposes.
 
Now for the knife. The smoking gun, ILE believes.

HERE are the facts about the knife.

1. No blood was on the blade.
2. No DNA was on the blade (when it arrived at the lab).
3. The knife doesn't match most of the wounds on Meredith.
4. The knife doesn't match the bloody imprint left on the bed.
5. No other knives were taken from Raffaele's apartment and No control tests were done (this is BAD science).


The prosecution had to change their original theory that the kitchen knife was the only weapon used to kill Meredith when it was shown that the knife was too large to cause most of Meredith's wounds. The knife was also too large to match a bloody imprint left on the bed. When this information became available, they simply stated that two knives must have been used. They provided no additional evidence.
 
still lots of posts about each other and about the thread itself. Trying to give you guys some leeway to discuss freely but, please stop with the comments that are personal in nature.
Those that are condemning the thread for not being productive, moving to another area of the forum is always an option.
 
Has anyone seen a list of whom ILE targeted for DNA profiles and whom they did not? (I mean generally. I realize it's unlikely a complete list would be published.)

I was shocked to read that some of the housemates were never profiled, not even for elimination purposes.

I don't believe i have ever seen a list of people whose DNA was collected.

Having stated that remember that filomena and Laura called attorneys immediately. Friends from the UK returned almost immediately. I do not recall having heard of any of the people in the lower flat being tested or girlfriends/boyfriends

Their focus as stated in my previous post focused on AK almost from the start

This investigation was truly incompetent

ETA This cottage was also broken in 2 times and must be considered as the last forensics were gathered on the 18th of December
 
Well that is kind of the problem. Once the verdicts are verified, the 'innocent' posters will be able to keep their arguments going for a long while (like around 20 years) using the same excuses... think of the post counts. The 'guilty' side will only be able to post that the courts have decided, and they received a fair trial. The views will not change regardless. I for one welcome the appeals, and am confident the knife/bra-clasp evidence will be found reasonable. Once that is done IMO the defense will be left impotent. I also enjoy the debate with any evidence/or lack of... just don't like the attitudes or the snarkiness much of the time. IMO the case wouldn't be such a big deal to the 'innocent' side if it would have happened here in the United States... she would just be another prisoner.

or all the potential lawsuits filed by AK and RS against the prosecutor, ILE, etc.,...this list will be long and varied and could potentially involve some forums, certain individuals involved in writing campaigns......
 
Has anyone seen a list of whom ILE targeted for DNA profiles and whom they did not? (I mean generally. I realize it's unlikely a complete list would be published.)

I was shocked to read that some of the housemates were never profiled, not even for elimination purposes.

I agree w/ Allusonz, it seems like they only looked for MK, AK, RS and RG. Here is what Frank Sfarzo said about the luminol 'stain' found in Filomenia's room:
Reading Stefanoni's own cautious words can maybe help in not simplifying things too much with sentences like, for instance, there's Amanda and Meredith blood in Filomena's room. How did Patrizia got to that result?

She noticed that the substance detected in Filomena's room didn't show, according to her, the male chromosome, so she assumed that it was a female profile. Then maybe she saw many peaks, so she assumed that it was more than one DNA. Then she compared it with the only two female profiles she had available, the one of Meredith and the one of Amanda.

And, after having decided which were the alleles and which the stutters, she found that they were two profiles and they were compatible with the ones of Kercher and Knox.

Very lucky, she didn't have to try too much. If one day, though, they'll compare it with Filomena's profile who knows, maybe it will be compatible too, since another biologist could read alleles and stutters in a different way.
 
I count 4 wounds (the initial 3 plus the coup de grace), but that's still a far cry from the 44 wounds, 2 knives, and 3 assailants claimed elsewhere.

It's apparent to me that somebody (the lead investigator or Mignini) had a divine revelation of a group sex attack and then all interrogation and investigation was directed to prove that theory. For those who think we're still bashing Italy, let me say that premature assumptions can be and have been made everywhere.

BBM - Love your sense of humor - I'm of Italian extraction, by the way, and do not see any bashing of my heritage taking place...

I am bothered by the trickery of telling AK she was HIV positive as a ploy to get her to list whom she slept with and then letting the press know about it.
 
BBM - Love your sense of humor - I'm of Italian extraction, by the way, and do not see any bashing of my heritage taking place...

I am bothered by the trickery of telling AK she was HIV positive as a ploy to get her to list whom she slept with and then letting the press know about it.

(BBM)

I am in complete agreement here! I'm unsure of the legality of this particular event; however, I'm more than certain that it is in extremely poor taste, to the point of being wildly offensive to me.
 
sniped
There was only one assailant, as demonstrated quite well by a forensic analysis of the crime scene, done by someone who's been in the field for some 30 yrs and has no dog in this fight, so to speak.

Thanks Sleuthy for the link:
forensic analysis of the crime scene
After reading it and seeing the photos – extremely sad and my heart goes out for Meredith, her family, and the revolt I feel for the taking of this beautiful person’s life!!!

In his article, Ron Hendry reconstructs the crime scene the way I think a crime scene should be presented in a trial. Rather than repeat his thoughts and conclusions, the only thing I would like to add is my concern that AK’s appeal is not tainted by any desires to make up for Rudy Guede escaping full accountability for this horrible crime IMO.
 
Now for the knife. The smoking gun, ILE believes.

HERE are the facts about the knife.

1. No blood was on the blade.
2. No DNA was on the blade (when it arrived at the lab).
3. The knife doesn't match most of the wounds on Meredith.
4. The knife doesn't match the bloody imprint left on the bed.
5. No other knives were taken from Raffaele's apartment and No control tests were done (this is BAD science).

The prosecution had to change their original theory that the kitchen knife was the only weapon used to kill Meredith when it was shown that the knife was too large to cause most of Meredith's wounds. The knife was also too large to match a bloody imprint left on the bed. When this information became available, they simply stated that two knives must have been used. They provided no additional evidence.

Check YOUR/their facts:
1-No blood needs to be on the blade, especially if cleaned. That is irrevelant.
dna of AK and Meredith would be quite enough.
2-Do you have a link backing up your 'no dna' statement, especially the 'when it arrived in the lab' part??? I seriously doubt it.
3-How does it not match the wounds? A big knife can make small wounds and a small knife can make large wounds.
4-Who has said it was supposed to 'match' the bed print? Why would it if other knives were involved?
5-What other knives were in his drawer? Why would a control test be needed for that one knife.

Maybe thinking RS pricked Meredith with some of the other knives too perhaps??? :innocent:
 
BBM - Love your sense of humor - I'm of Italian extraction, by the way, and do not see any bashing of my heritage taking place...

I am bothered by the trickery of telling AK she was HIV positive as a ploy to get her to list whom she slept with and then letting the press know about it.

I got to wondering whether we could know for sure whether the "false positive" was a testing error or an interrogation ploy. Although there is some criticism of manufacturers' claims, it seems AIDS tests are accurate 99.5% of the time.

So AK's false positive could have been a testing error, but given the way the result was used against her by ILE, I am very suspicious.
 
Of course you know the doctors are not a part of LE or the prosecution... right?
 
Check YOUR/their facts:
1-No blood needs to be on the blade, especially if cleaned. That is irrevelant.
dna of AK and Meredith would be quite enough.
2-Do you have a link backing up your 'no dna' statement, especially the 'when it arrived in the lab' part??? I seriously doubt it.
3-How does it not match the wounds? A big knife can make small wounds and a small knife can make large wounds.
4-Who has said it was supposed to 'match' the bed print? Why would it if other knives were involved?
5-What other knives were in his drawer? Why would a control test be needed for that one knife.

Maybe thinking RS pricked Meredith with some of the other knives too perhaps??? :innocent:

DNA has to be something (blood, saliva, skin cells, etc.), fred. If the kitchen knife were indeed the murder weapon, it would have been dripping with blood. It would be a virtual miracle if someone were able to clean all traces of blood off the knife, yet leave behind 5 cells of some other DNA from MK. Everyday contamination (AK unknowingly brought a bit of MK's DNA from home), lab contamination or faulty testing are more likely explanations for the results ILE got.

Testing other knives from the same drawer would have told us if those knives, too, contained tiny amounts of MK's DNA. If they did, we would have to blame contamination (either at the lab or elsewhere), since all the knives can't be the murder weapon.

The testing of the knife best typifies the way this case was handled. ILE ignored accepted testing procedures, worked until they got the result they wanted and not one minute more. As a result, all of their claims--but particularly their forensics--should be suspect.
 
Of course you know the doctors are not a part of LE or the prosecution... right?

I assume the doctor wasn't a passing vagabond, but worked for the prison. So, yes, he is a representative of ILE.
 
Check YOUR/their facts:
1-No blood needs to be on the blade, especially if cleaned. That is irrevelant.
dna of AK and Meredith would be quite enough.
2-Do you have a link backing up your 'no dna' statement, especially the 'when it arrived in the lab' part??? I seriously doubt it.
3-How does it not match the wounds? A big knife can make small wounds and a small knife can make large wounds.
4-Who has said it was supposed to 'match' the bed print? Why would it if other knives were involved?
5-What other knives were in his drawer? Why would a control test be needed for that one knife.

Maybe thinking RS pricked Meredith with some of the other knives too perhaps??? :innocent:

Yes everyone should!!!!

The Italian labs are not even Certified


1-No blood needs to be on the blade, especially if cleaned. That is irrevelant.

Not irrelevant. Impossible!!! If that knife had been cleaned then there would of been no DNA period


“If someone had a knife covered in blood and they tried to clean it very well, they would remove their ability to detect the DNA before they removed the ability to detect the chemical traces of blood.” Therefore, the lack of blood makes it impossible for there to be DNA on the knife, so the DNA that was observed has to arise from contamination."

http://injusticeinperugia.org/TheKnife.html

One can argue that LCN profiling should ordinarily be accepted by a court. However, Dr. Stefanoni used an inferior version of LCN DNA profiling, one that has never appeared in the scientific literature

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/2010_09_01_archive.html

Please note the Open Letter signed by DNA experts. There is no way 9 DNA experts would attached their name to this document if it was not accurate as they would not want to lose the respect of the DNA experts within the scientific field let alone their jobs

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/files/KnoxSollecitoDNAPetitionSubmitted11.19.09b.pdf


2-Do you have a link backing up your 'no dna' statement, especially the 'when it arrived in the lab' part??? I seriously doubt it.

Lets see. The knife was chosen based on investigative intuition. It was placed in an envelope, take to the ILE station, removed, handled, placed back into another envelope which was then put into a box and taken to the lab. Where should i start......

There was so little DNA present that the instrument indicated no DNA until Stefanoni overrode the machine limits. This amplification increase was not achieved by the PCR technique. Once the sample has been chopped up and subjected to electrophoresis, it is too late for that. The increase was performed by other methods, such as lowering the threshold level, or simply changing the display scale until the minute fluorescence peaks were visible


http://www.sciencespheres.com/2009/10/lcn-dna-profiling-part-ii-watch-where.html

3-How does it not match the wounds? A big knife can make small wounds and a small knife can make large wounds.

So the experts in this field, including the ME for the prosecution that stated in testimony that this same knife could not of made all these wounds were wrong?

Think about it. The PROSECUTION ME stated that this knife could NOT make all these wounds....

4-Who has said it was supposed to 'match' the bed print? Why would it if other knives were involved?

It is physically impossible for the "supposed" murder weapon to of made those marks as testified by the all the experts


5-What other knives were in his drawer? Why would a control test be needed for that one knife.

Laboratories performing LCN rely heavily on what are called “negative controls

The Law Society of Scotland's publication at: http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/52-2/1003857.aspx

“In forensic science the fact to be established is that the DNA profile originated from the material recovered from a crime scene or a suspect, not the investigator, the laboratory, packaging, or analytical instruments. A “negative control” is set up by simply processing a “blank” sample that has no DNA

http://www.sciencespheres.com/2009/10/lcn-dna-profiling-part-ii-watch-where.html


So we see that in roughly nine distinct ways, Stefanoni's improv LCN DNA profiling was even worse than unproven and inadmissible LCN DNA profiling tests

1. The DNA wasn't amplified enough; the very weak fluorescence was simply blown up.
2. The test site was not remote from other DNA tests to avoid contamination.
3. Specialized LCN-quality entry procedures to avoid contamination were not used.
4. A positive pressure environment was not maintained to exclude contamination.
5. Special LCN sterilization procedures to destroy errant DNA were not used.
6. The entire sample was consumed in a single test; no comparison of tests was possible.
7. No sample was retained for future reference. The test can never be reproduced.
8. No negative control tests were run to check for contamination.
9. No control tests to check for field contamination were performed


http://www.sciencespheres.com/2009/10/lcn-dna-profiling-part-ii-watch-where.html

I only have started here......
 
Of course you know the doctors are not a part of LE or the prosecution... right?

I guess that must mean the ME as well? I always thought the ME testified for the prosecution!!!
 
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