MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9

Jacie Estes said:

:floorlaugh: Visiting my Dad in Oklahoma and his neighbors had chihuahuas. One got through the fence into Dad's yard and ran at me, it chomped down on my ankle. Luckily I had UGG boots on. My Dad nearly fell down laughing.

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I love how big burly repairmen cower in fear of my girl Chihuahua bearing her teeth. I had one maintenance guy that refused to come over unless I put her away.

Just to throw in my personal experience with my baby monitor and doors closed:

Fire Safety says that all bedroom doors should be shut at night and we always keep our bedroom doors closed. In a house fire it delays the time that smoke can fill a room and provide extra time to escape safely--remember we are taught to "feel the door" before opening it if the smoke alarm is going off. Plus my kids like their rooms quiet and dark so really disliked the door open. My kids slept in their cribs from the time they were big enough to leave the bassinet in my room-- a few months old. Even when sick if I felt that I should be near them I would sleep on the floor in their room, but that was only for vomiting or an asthma attack (my older dd). A cold wouldn't have me overly concerned, particularly with my 2nd that didn't have asthma. They would cry if they needed me, I didn't put them in bed with me very often because it would just keep DH and I awake and they always slept better in their own bed. And when they were little I was very afraid of them getting caught in the pillows or blankets or DH or I rolling over on them.

So in our house doors are closed for safety and comfort. And we also have cats so it keeps them from wandering in and out of the bedrooms at night.


For my second DD she was a mover at night. She would toss and turn and make little noises and yes, my mom instinct would hear all of it through the monitor. So most of the time it was turned down pretty low-- I could hear her cry if she needed me but not the covers rustling, the mattress, the sucking on her fingers and all those other noises that would keep me waking me up unnecessarily. And occasionally, for reasons I never really could understand, I would get really bad static noise and would turn it down to almost off so I could sleep.

Just my experience that these 2 things are really not all that strange. In fact to me I find it strange that people would sleep with bedroom doors open!


That said, I was totally on board with the kidnapping in the beginning but at this point I am definitely not very convinced. Though I just can't wrap my mind around this-- I just have a feeling there was an accident of some sort (moo) and I just can't fathom how/why there was a need to try to cover it up instead of calling 911.

3. All doors closed. Light on in every room so kidnapper had to open the door to each room to turn on a light. Nobody heard all the doors open. Did he close each door too? If so, nobody heard that either. And the door opening and light going on in the kids' room and in mom's room didn't wake up the 8 yr old or the mom. Might have awakened the 6 yr old and so he went into mom's bed? But he didn't wake up mom and say hey mom, there's a guy carrying the baby and 3 cell phones going around opening the door to each room and turning a light on.

4. I'm losin' it.

5. And I have definitely lost it!!

uvamerica said:

So basically what the parents have told us, there's no way a stranger could have come in their house and taken the baby ? every time they add another detail it points us further away from a stranger abduction :waitasec:

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She said well, maybe one of the boys took her out of the crib and took her in bed with them...but no, that couldn't happen either.....(this is what she was thinking in her head during that time, she said.)

You are not alone in the worst mom ever category secretagent. Many of us here are discovering we are not very good mommies.

Ok, Baby Lisa had a cold. Mom goes to bed at 10:30. When my children had a cold at that age, they would wake up crying very often in the night when they started coughing or their noses were stuffed up and they had a hard time breathing.

Now, as mentioned, I am a sleep deprived mom and have been for years. What just say that DB would drift off to sleep and then Baby Lisa kept waking her. What just say that DB snapped?

It's the only thing that I can think of that makes somewhat of sense, unless an accident happened.

If the mom is involved, I really think she is suffering from PND or just snapped due to sleep deprivaty.

It's no excuse but this is the only logical theory I can come up with. I don't see a stranger abduction here. I just can't fathom it.

TGIRecovered said:

Sometimes people fall asleep without making the nightly rounds to turn out lights, close windows and lock doors. Sometimes they fall asleep before all of the little ones are safely tucked in bed. Sometimes people are so sound asleep that they are very hard to wake up.

Maybe they wake up and can't remember how they ended up in bed at all. Maybe they find other things amiss and they have to lie to explain it because they are too embarassed to admit that they just don't remember.

If this happened to a person, she would probably be very emotional, confused, maybe even prone to cry. She would probably be scared to death to believe that she might have done something unthinkable. There would be gaps in time which she could not explain.

Blackouts can be caused by prescription drugs, alcohol or combination of the two. I think that this is one possible scenerio which would fit the story we are getting.

JMO

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.......and inaccurate or intentional overdoses of dextromethorphan (found in OTC cough syrup). Adults and youth recreationally abuse cough syrup with dextromethorphan.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health....htm?AID=4992781&PID=4175070&SID=45yeuqxlnwui

One can't accidentally kill a baby quickly with Tylenol, but cough syrup is different. The loss of motor control in an infant from an overdose of dextromethorphan=loss of cough reflex=drowning in her own excessive lung secretions from her cold virus. An overdose of cough syrup also depresses the brain's reflex to breath=anoxia and brain cell death. If mom accidentally overdosed Lisa on cough medicine, mom wouldn't have heard anything alarming coming from Lisa's room. Lisa would have looked like she was peacefully sleeping, but in reality, Lisa would have been unconscious and unable to cry or even cough.

There was a very GOOD reason why the FDA pulled these types of cough syrups off the market for babies, but many parents continue to give their children adult cough medicine.

JeannieC said:

Why, do you like to spit tobacco on the courtroom floor! :woohoo:

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No. But I'm often standing on the courtroom floor...and if the situation is so bad that there has to be a law preventing people from spitting down onto it... well, you get my point.

Sorry...just trying to catch up on the thread...stepped away to get some food and good grief, another 20 pages...

ClueMeIn said:

3. All doors closed. Light on in every room so kidnapper had to open the door to each room to turn on a light. Nobody heard all the doors open. Did he close each door too? If so, nobody heard that either. And the door opening and light going on in the kids' room and in mom's room didn't wake up the 8 yr old or the mom. Might have awakened the 6 yr old and so he went into mom's bed? But he didn't wake up mom and say hey mom, there's a guy carrying the baby and 3 cell phones going around opening the door to each room and turning a light on.

4. I'm losin' it.

5. And I have definitely lost it!!

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I'm right there with you. :crazy:

TGIRecovered said:

Blackouts can be caused by prescription drugs, alcohol or combination of the two. I think that this is one possible scenerio which would fit the story we are getting.
JMO

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RSBM...or simply she's an exhausted mom taking care of three children.

belimom said:

Same here. Two nights ago, my daughter came in and was sleeping on the floor. I actually heard when she started peeing in her sleep in the middle of the night and wet the floor. It woke me up.

My DH was out of town and it threw everyone's schedule off and none of us slept well. Other than that, nothing else makes sense...

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belimom,
I think most mom's are like us. lol. M y momma always said the good Lord gave mom's a keen sense of hearing and knowing. lol


The more Lisa's mom says, the more I'm shaking my head.

All lights on, screens on or bent inward, doors opened and orunlocked, son in bed, husband at work, phones stolen, phone call at 2:28ish, a new kitten in the bed and a nonbarking dog in the back yard.

Right now I don't see the mom as innocent. I pray I'm wrong.

imo

tlcox said:

BBM

totally agree. being animal lovers we have had a number of dogs through the years. Some only barked at strangers some bark when the wind blows and some bark constantly. Our current one barks at anyone that comes onto the property, even us, no matter what.

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Yes, all dogs are different. But the parents already said that their dog was a barker.

JBean said:

Am I the only one that kept the doors closed and the monitor off when my kids went down for the night??

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I kept the doors shut.

norest4thewicked said:

Oh...it's not that I don't believe you guys...I just wanted to figure out how so many of us missed it.

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Norest : MOO...always at the end of my posts...but, it's a hunch...

Well, if I'm going with the story I've heard so far. A intruder entered the home sometime after 10:30, lets even say through the front door while the father was working his very first night away from the home.

Turns on all the lights and closes the doors because hmm, I don't know why because.

Picks up 3 phones

This intruder picks up a baby

The dog sleeps and the mother hears nothing because her doors closed too.

Do I got that right?

OK....I have finally figured out what happened with the baby monitor.

The abductor came in the unlocked door, turned on all the lights....went into the mom's room and cut on the lights...turned off the baby monitor. Then the abductor snuck down the hall, went into the kitchen and made a sandwich. Then he/she grabbed up all the cell phones....and took the baby.

Oh yes, and he/she fed the dog a big bone and left some milk for the stray kitten.

*sigh*

Sorry to make light of this...but I don't think things are adding up.

norest4thewicked said:

Oh...it's not that I don't believe you guys...I just wanted to figure out how so many of us missed it.

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And talking to the boys could be why LE suspected Debbie was involved from the get-go. I still hold the opinion there was no kidnapping. The house was staged and maybe the son heard the commotion from the window screen or was awakened by lights.

There have been claims neither monitor nor dog alerted to noise but no explanation for why the son was sleeping with her. And we know it is a question asked by the Dad, which is why I'm wondering why he is so supportive of her. What was her answer? Does anybody know? I'm betting the son heard noise and maybe saw what was going on.

JMO

It's awfully quiet for there being over 300 people in here! If you are a guest reading this, please consider joining. This is one of the best places on the Internet!

lonetraveler said:

Someone please tell me why a mother of an infant would sleep with the door to the infant's room closed and the door to the mother's room closed and she apparently doesn't respond to a monitor in the baby's room??????? Why on earth would a mother close the door to her room? With a sick infant in a closed room as well??

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My guess is to keep the new stray kitten inside the room so it wouldn't climb the drapes in the living room.

If Lisa died in the house wouldn't the cadaver dogs have picked up a scent?