The Rope and the knots
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defense101
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I agree fully, I myself am not a boater, a cruiser yes , but not a boater and once again, not being a boater to tie my hands and feet in that fashion would never ever have occurred to me. imo
Me either and it's much more complicated doing it yourself than doing it to someone or to an object. On top of it, I see no reason anyone trying to commit suicide would figure out a way to initially tie up their hands in front, slip out a hand, and then redo in the back. In fact, if the purpose is to keep from stopping yourself, I see no reason to tie your wrists behind your back. There is no reason to tie your fee, especially if you know you have to navigate to the balcony and foist yourself over it - more chance of failure in completing a suicide because how would you guarantee you can actually accomplish that? Arguments do not hold for any of this. Besides, statistically binding ones feet and committing suicide is even more rare.
Well, it has been bandied about that JS was/is a control freak..........
greenpalm
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I don't have a link, but maybe someone else does, didn't we hear from LE that there was NO evidence of a search for knot tying information on the computers that were seized in the search warrants? Am I crazy? I'll go look for this…
No word that I can recall on anything that might have been gleaned from the computers. Taking them into custody though has prevented anyone else from seeing what's within them. Do they just stay locked away forever on some dusty shelf somewhere? Maybe LE mistakenly erased them like it's alleged they painted over the message and possibly compromised RZ's cell phone message memory.
seems there could be some stinky hinky here with SD LE......a shame they didn't do a better job from the get-go and thus prevent this mire of doubt to fester and leave this vague stink......
Regardless of what the rope ties would normally be used for, I think we can safely assume, grrrr, I hate this word, so I will say instead, that I think most here would agree, that the person who tied the ropes had knowledge of ropes, knots and was comfortable using nautical type rope.
When links were posted, the art of bondage used a very specific type or types of rope. Not nautical rope. The nautical rope used, would be something that someone familiar with that type of rope would be able to manipullate, into the types of useage we saw displayed.
I will also repeat here, that to the best of my knowledge, the bindings themselves have never been shown as they appeared on Rebecca.
If someone were to bind themselves, in the way that Rebecca was found, in what order would you do the bindings? Feet, neck, hands? Neck, feet, hands? Also don't forget the gag that had to be wrapped around the noose three times and stuffed into Rebecca's mouth as a gag. How far down Rebecca's throat was the shirt stuffed, when Adam removed it?
When links were posted, the art of bondage used a very specific type or types of rope. Not nautical rope. The nautical rope used, would be something that someone familiar with that type of rope would be able to manipullate, into the types of useage we saw displayed.
I will also repeat here, that to the best of my knowledge, the bindings themselves have never been shown as they appeared on Rebecca.
If someone were to bind themselves, in the way that Rebecca was found, in what order would you do the bindings? Feet, neck, hands? Neck, feet, hands? Also don't forget the gag that had to be wrapped around the noose three times and stuffed into Rebecca's mouth as a gag. How far down Rebecca's throat was the shirt stuffed, when Adam removed it?
Also, in a 9ft drop, the death is supposed to be very quick so really there is no need to bind hands at all-at 9ft one might expect the neck to break and even if it didn't there are only seconds before the person passes out.
So the purpose of all this binding is puzzling to me, especially considering she had to get over the railing.
Yeah, I hadn't thought of it but tying the hands is more appropriate to standing on something.
You said it better than I did... the knots and ropes seem nautical. I'm not sure it is a bondage scenario but it sort of looks like one, that would be a mismatch in the two. I'm entertaining that idea more because the scene looks sort of crazy to me, too inconsistent - staging after the fact maybe? Further, it could be to hide an angry scene that got out of control. Or setup to look a bit wacky and lead police in many directions, but no forensic evidence to pin it on anyone? I usually go with the simplest explanation, but I'm not sure what it is in this case because it seems overdone, over the top. I can't see someone just getting angry and spontaneously coming up with this method of killing someone. Maybe that leads us back to whether that autopsy says all it should have said as I'm starting to think she was dead before she was hanged - or else hanged/strangled and then everything was staged after including the bindings. Why would a killer go to the trouble of tying those knots like that?
Why would a killer go to the trouble of tying knots like this? Because those are the knots the killer uses regularly, would be the simplest answer to me.
I have no idea what occurred, but we know for certain that Adam had knowledge of rope and knots, in his job.
Nina or Dina both had been on boats on a regular basis with their Dad.
Jonah, as listed in another thread owns a boat, that is reported to have been moved to different locations three times since Rebecca died. Doubt the boat having been moved is significant to Rebecca's death, but shows that someone (the owner?) knows how to tie down and secure his boat.
What makes this significant, is that if we compare these people's knowledge of ropes used in boating, we also have to compare Rebecca's knowledge, or lack thereof. Rebecca was learning to swim, to enter a marathon with a friend. This does not bespeak of someone being comfortable about being in the water, or most likely on boats either.
Just a thought I have had when discussing this prior, that has not left my head, or been resolved in my mind.
I believe most people who tie their hands do it because they made previous unsuccessful attempts, so they know to do it. RN has not make any previous suicide attempts. Other possibility is that people who bind their hands behind their back are trying to make their suicide to look like a murder. We had been given a motive for RN's suicide as grief and guilt over Max's upcoming death. Why would she be trying to stage her suicide to look like murder?
I seriously do not see any reason for her to do so. Most especially if she was 'feeling guilty'.
:floorlaugh:
The rope and knots are the reason the investigation took soo long.. they had to have that woman practive over and over, hour after hour to make it look so easy in that video....
greenpalm
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I got it from SunnieRN:
But she doesn't link it. Sunnie, I'm going to guess that you made that statement out of deduction. If LE had found evidence for searches on knot tying on her computer, surely they'd have told us, as that would have been extremely compelling evidence of suicide. The absence of them telling us implies that they didn't find any such searches, but maybe they didn't look at the computers. It took them a month to turn her cell phone on, and even then they couldn't figure out how to examine it forensically. (my husband served as a juror on a murder trial they had a cell phone expert examine the phones)
Illustration of hanging with dimensions of rope, Rebecca, and Adam. Claims Adam could have cut Rebecca down easily without the table.
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/f4x6h
https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/f4x6h
greenpalm
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Thanks for the diagram. I mentioned in another thread, that I assumed Adam pulled the table under Rebecca's feet.
How does LE know that she was exactly 26.2 inches off the ground? Once the rope was cut, the stretching from her weight would spring back. It seems it would be hard to tell how far her feet were off the ground if you didn't measure before cutting.
Agree, totally! And, since SDSO didn't say they did or could match up the cut ends of that rope, it could have been any length.
[In some source that I have lost now and can't validate, it was also claimed that the end of each piece of rope was taped off (did anyone else read this?). If so, I can't fathom someone committing suicide would do this.]
SDSO said that Adam broke the leg of the table while pulling it over to be able to cut her down. Possible he did and then decided he could actually reach her, but I'm more likely to believe it could have eyeballed it.
The problem I'm having with the diagram is it says the rope was cut at neck level, leaving 10 inches of rope dangling. [Is that the correct length of rope still on her neck, evidence in photos?]
Since they didn't see her hanging (and nobody else did except for AS) I presume they estimated it by adding her height to the length of the rope hanging from the balcony. But you are right, I am not sure how accurate their estimations are.
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