FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

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vlpate said:
May I ask how you know there was no investigation? Zimmerman was taken to the police department. CSI investigates every crime scene, without exception. Where is this coming from besides the media? If the answer is, there are no documents, which specifically have you searched for a where?
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I'll make the concession there was a slight investigation based on most of the PD's own words.
A narcotics officer questioned GZ instead of a homicide detective.
No blood or alcohol tests were done on GZ in a homicide case.
Chief Lee admitted GZ's injuries were not mentioned in the preliminary report in a homicide case.
And finally, a witness says an officer tried to correct her statement, in a homicide case.
 
BBM In your opinion. Ducking under a porch, covering his face, when he notices he was being watched, is suspicious.


HiHater said:
I think the hoodie has become central because Zimmerman said that Trayvon was suspicious. As we come to find, Trayvon was doing nothing suspicious.
He could have only been suspicious because he was a young black male, and likely because of how he was dressed. JMO
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LambChop said:
All information comes directly from GZ about what happened. This is a man who always blamed the domestic complaints filed against him on the other person.
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BEM: Always? How many were there? The one I know about was countered and a injunction was issued for both parties. He and his ex-girlfriend were fighting over a cell phone, his cell phone. The case of resisting arrest was reduced to a misdemeanor, not sure the outcome.

TM can't speak for himself so what makes GZ so credible. Because TM can't defend himself that makes it difficult to determine who started the allocation only that GZ was the one pursuing. That much we know. Anything about why GZ shot TM is speculation.
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That's the thing, we don't know - when the dispatcher told him not to follow Trayvon, he said OK. Where was he at that time? No one knows, but in his statement to police, he was headed back to his vehicle and was jumped. To continue to say he was chasing Trayvon, following and stalking him after he was told to stop is not factual. Even if everyone on this board herad footsteps, he could have been headed back to his vehicle.

T. Dooley was in the news on Feb. 23rd while in court regarding his stand your ground defense. Three days later GZ shoots TM and claims stand your ground defense. Makes you wonder, does it not????? jmo
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Trevor Dooley was charged with manslaughter. Witnesses saw Dooley pull his gun and then James tackled him to get the gun, his daughter was nearby. This is apples and oranges, he's on trial for manslaughter - his defense is the stand your ground law which anyone can use.
 
songline said:
It does not have any relevance on the death.
That boy is sadly gone before his time. :(
I said a million times I do not believe that any neighborhood
watchman need a gun or should carry one.
I have also said a million time:
IF IF IF a shot has to be taken you go for the lleg so he cant run
and wite for the police.

BUT WHO would it not look good for: ???
When we will be looking at profiles of the people later in the case,,,
and parent don&#8217;t check on their kids till the next day -<modsnip>.
It looks like a 17 year old has stayed out all night and it is not new.
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Either way, it is totally irrelevant and I would suggest that if there were to be a trial in this matter, inadmissible as it is irrelevant. Trayvon is the victim. His parents are victims. He was not in the commission of a crime. He was not on his way to commit a crime and was stopped by GZ. He was headed home to watch a ballgame on TV. Whether or not his dad stayed up all night trying to find him or went to bed is totally irrelevant to what GZ will be tried for in a court of law if this gets that far.

IMO

I don't understand why this is even being discussed as though it is of any importance in this case at all. People's backgrounds do matter when someone is on trial but isn't it the background of the accused and to a certain extent the victim, depending on the particular case. In this case, the victim has no record (juvie or otherwise that we know of at this point - in fact, there's already been statements that he has none at all) so other than that, anyone else's character or personality has absolutely no bearing on this case or situation.

I've known kids who have terrible parents but are very good, responsible kids. A parent's behavior or lack of supervision has what bearing on the case if that kid is murdered while walking home? I just don't get this at all.

IMO
 
Can Trayvon's family sue Zimmerman for wrongful death, i wonder? Would at least make him explain himself...
Although my ultimate hope is for an arrest..
 
Would like to know if Trayvon had to move in the direction of GZ to get to his father's house? Where was GZ's truck/GZ, in relation to Trayvon's dad's girlfriend apartment? I saw a map of the area, but don't know what street BZ's truck was on (he told 911 op he didn't know).
 
rossva said:
BBM In your opinion. Ducking under a porch, covering his face, when he notices he was being watched, is suspicious.
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Do you have a link for the ducking under the porch? I have looked for one but not found it. Thanks.
 
rossva said:
BBM In your opinion. Ducking under a porch, covering his face, when he notices he was being watched, is suspicious.
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He didn't duck under a porch. He went under the awning of the clubhouse to get out of the rain. He put his hood on because it was raining. Doing those things when it is raining is not suspicious.
 
RANCH said:
Maybe there assuming that this narcotics detective never worked as a homicide detective before and didn't have the proper training.
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Perhaps but that isn't the impression I was left with at all.

IMO
 
vlpate said:
May I ask how you know there was no investigation? Zimmerman was taken to the police department. CSI investigates every crime scene, without exception. Where is this coming from besides the media? If the answer is, there are no documents, which specifically have you searched for a where?
Click to expand...


I've read every document posted on the City of Sanford website and listened to all the recordings posted there.

I've also read the witness interviews with newspapers, some saying that LE tried to alter the content of their statement, others saying that they tried to contact the investigating officers but got no calls back so they could give statements.

From the statements the officers made in the preliminary report posted on the web site, there was no effort to preserve any evidence on Trayvon's body. There was no mention of documenting GZ's injuries or of collecting evidence on his clothing. There is no mention of photographing the crime scene, no mention that a CSI team arrived on site.

Maybe it's a lack of detail in the available reports, but there have been no mentions from any of the witnesses that any extensive investigation occurred in any of the newspaper accounts I have seen.

SPD has a history of not investigating crimes with black victims, so unless someone reports the process or reports are made public, I won't believe they did it in this case.

If you've seen more official reports than have been posted on the Sanford site, please post links - I would love to read them.
 
rossva said:
BBM In your opinion. Ducking under a porch, covering his face, when he notices he was being watched, is suspicious.
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GZ said Trayvon did this to 911 Operator? Where there other witnesses? I don't know I would fully believe GZ.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
Here's a case from Miami that a judge dismissed based on the Stand Your Ground Laws. It was dismissed two days ago. The guy chased after a guy stealing car radios and stabbed him to death. All caught on tape too?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...judge-decides-fatal-stabbing-was-self-defense
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This law really concerns me. If this sort of thing is covered under the law, then I can't see how the residents of Florida will stand for it to remain as it is now worded. If it is not covered, but judges are interpreting it as such, then the legislation needs to clarify it and get it cleaned up with new language.

However, based on recent statements by GZ's own lawyer and links provided upthread, he is saying that GZ is not covered by this law.

IMO
 
ScubaTwinn said:
I'll make the concession there was a slight investigation based on most of the PD's own words.
A narcotics officer questioned GZ instead of a homicide detective.
Click to expand...
A narcotics officer was at the scene - he was questioned at the station.

No blood or alcohol tests were done on GZ in a homicide case.
Click to expand...
Which homicide case are you referring to?
Chief Lee admitted GZ's injuries were not mentioned in the preliminary report in a homicide case.
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Again, which homicide case? His injuries are in the initial police report.
And finally, a witness says an officer tried to correct her statement, in a homicide case.
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Seriously, there is no homicide case I can find under the name George Zimmer. I'd like to read about a witness being coached to change her statement though? Was this on ABC?
 
Talina said:
Wait..if your phone is turned off and a call comes in, does your incoming call log show a missed call when you power up your phone?

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying but I've never had or known a phone to do that. I don't see how it could.

I can see obviously that a call would go to voice mail but unless a person leaves a message how do you even know you missed a call when the phone is powered down? I sure don't.

IMO
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Well I have a fairly new Iphone- less than 6 mo. old, it's never powered "off", so if I miss a call, yes it does show up as a missed call if they don't leave a voice message.
 
IMO not condemning the cry by the Panthers to hunt down Zimmerman and "wanted dead or alive", kill or capture him shows silent approval.




Dr.Fessel said:
Why should they? Do they belong to the same group? This isn't some religious group with an off chute like Islam and radical Islam. Why would they want to identify with them? It is none of their business.
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LolaMoon08 said:
Here's a case from Miami that a judge dismissed based on the Stand Your Ground Laws. It was dismissed two days ago. The guy chased after a guy stealing car radios and stabbed him to death. All caught on tape too?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...judge-decides-fatal-stabbing-was-self-defense

ETA: At least it went before a Judge to decide, I guess?
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Wow, just wow... this sounds like vigilante justice to me! If this is how a judge is reading the law, can you imagine the effects on society from these kinds of rulings? Unreal... Apparently a radio is worth more than a life in Florida.

Thanks for finding this BTW
 
Since so much speculation is going on I am going to offer two speculations on why Trayvon might have chosen what appears on the map to be a slightly less direct route home.
1. This is not his neighborhood, and all of the townhouses look much alike. In the rain and the falling dark, and being in some distress he simply got turned around.
2. If I were running from someone who
I had seen following me in a car I would take the route that got me off the street as fast as possible. No matter how direct the street route may be, and no matter how athletic I am, I cannot outrun a car, and GZ was in the car when Trayvon began running.

I also don't understand why some posters are being so much more critical of Trayvon's reactions than they are of George Zimmerman's ACTIONS. Reacting to a situation which is volatile and evolving affords less time and luxury to make careful and considered responses. George Zimmerman initiated these events, his choices should bear the burden of closer scrutiny. Jmo of course
 
rossva said:
BBM In your opinion. Ducking under a porch, covering his face, when he notices he was being watched, is suspicious.
Click to expand...

Is it possible that TM ducked under the porch because of the rain, put his hoodie up because of the rain, then proceeded to walk the rest of the way home?

Is it possible him putting his hoodie up had nothing to do with being watched and everything to do with it raining?

Is is possible that because recent break-ins were supposedly done by black male teens that GZ was quick to draw his own conclusion that TM was suspicious without giving any benefit of the doubt?

IMO
 
Talina said:
BBM

If you are referring to my post regarding this, that is not the context of what I said at all. Please re-read my post regarding what I saw the lady attorney say on this matter.

IMO
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I did re read it thank you.
 
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