AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

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Well I am a former US Marine and I dont panic, in fact I was trained to ALWAYS keep my cool during any crises and THAT is basic training that is also offered by most police and fire departments and other crises workers, if you ever take such training or listen to such people talk the first thing they tell you and the one thing they ALWAYS stress is the IMPORTANCE of keeping your head during an emergency/crises.


I am certain it would be suggested I am a sociopath if someone seen me in the midst of a crises. If I were to have lost my cool during the emergencies and crises I have been in I would have been brought back from Iraq/Afghanistan in a body bag.


Granted not everyone has had such training but it really isnt out of the norm for some people to be able to remain calm during the most frenzied times.

When my daughter had what turned out to be a febrile convulsion I could barely dial 911. My husband was calm the entire time. In fact when the paramedics got to our house they were more worried about me then they were her. He was once Army way before we met, got out after a car accident screwed up his arm and leg. He can remain a bit to calm at times and it can tick me off horribly bad. I always tell him it would be nice if I could see his concern at times.
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but there's some little things disturbing me. The photos of Isa, always decked out, in an interview on NBC her Mom said she would wear make up, jewelry, etc, she's only 6. The video where she's dancing to music and her mother said, "Look at me" and Isa had that smile, reminded me of that Tiaras show. Did she have her in talent shows or anything like this, I don't know, it just felt odd.

Beautiful little girl, I just wonder if parents were real strict on the kids, him a coach, all the kids on a team, which there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes parents are so motivated to have thier children be out there, be in the spotlight, kids can be so dominated. There can be emotional or even physical abuse, not saying there is here, but I'd like to hear more on what type of parents they are. If they were the type to want that perfect life, perfect children, they do come off to me like that and that takes money, also.

I dont think they had her in any beauty contests or it seems we would have heard that. Isa seems to be a typcal happy beautiful child who loved life.

IMO
 
Never ceases to amaze me what addiction causes people to do, that said these people do not belong in prison, they are sick with a disease and need to be under a medical professionals care, that way the prisons have more room for the real bastards who belong there.

This is so true. Drugs destroy a person. Most people that screw up big time when they are on drugs, are completely different people when they are sober. Sobriety is the key rather than jail for most addicts.
 
I'm thinking about joining you but need to know whether your tent is air-conditioned.

bike.jpg
 
Yesterday and today I'm in the "creeper stranger did it". That could change at any moment!

IMO It's really difficult to have a theory with the very little factual evidence, which to me makes every theory is a good one.

IMO All we have is conflicting witness statements, really.

I have never ruled out the "creeper stranger" either.

In some ways I feel the perp of the 3 girl incident is more closely connected than the possibility of the family or the cartels.
I know LE is not inclined to think so. I am not sure why, but perhaps it is because the PIMA County perp left fingerprints, while the TPD perp did not? They both seem to have come in during the middle of the night, possibly through a window on both, and both victims were SIX years old.
Other experts weighed in thinking that it could be very well related.

IMO While SC sounded very distant and out of it on the call, it is possible that he may take medication that makes him that way in the morning, because he might be a high strung person. Maybe the LE questioned him in the past weeks about his disconnected and odd 911 call, and maybe SC decided to stop the benzos or sedatives. Maybe stopping whatever he was taking along with this tragedy has made him unstable, unable to control his emotions and is acting out in some way, simply in response to the horror and unfairness of it all. That's just one scenario off the top of my head. Maybe instead he has sleep apnea, and was still recovering from the lack of oxygen that morning. There are so many possibilities here.

IMO -- if SC was involved and made IC disappear at 6:30 am, that would be taking a huge risk if he knew RC was leaving at 7 am. How would he know that RC would not check on her that morning? How would he know RC would not wake up during the middle of the night?

Yes, it could have been a relative, or a dog catcher.

For me, the cartel thing just seems a bit of a stretch, but I would not rule that out either.

That said, I love reading all of the interesting theories and discussing those back and forth, like a brainstorming session. IMO The scrutiny of a theory means that theory is worthy of respect, focusing on the post, not on the theorist. IMO
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but there's some little things disturbing me. The photos of Isa, always decked out, in an interview on NBC her Mom said she would wear make up, jewelry, etc, she's only 6. The video where she's dancing to music and her mother said, "Look at me" and Isa had that smile, reminded me of that Tiaras show. Did she have her in talent shows or anything like this, I don't know, it just felt odd.

Beautiful little girl, I just wonder if parents were real strict on the kids, him a coach, all the kids on a team, which there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes parents are so motivated to have thier children be out there, be in the spotlight, kids can be so dominated. There can be emotional or even physical abuse, not saying there is here, but I'd like to hear more on what type of parents they are. If they were the type to want that perfect life, perfect children, they do come off to me like that and that takes money, also.

Winterrose, I'm not picking on you, I've seen other posters mention "the pictures of Isa", which are concerning to them.

I personally haven't seen anything remotely close to the "Jon Benet" pics or the recent little girl done up to look like the prostitute from"Pretty Woman". If there is some seriously awful picture, I wish someone would link it.

It is very common for little girls to dress up and put on make up.
It's as common as little boys driving their Tonka trucks in the dirt or hammering nails with their plastic hammers. Children learn from play and from emulating their adult role models.

In my opinion, Isa looks like a very beloved, adored and treasured little princess, much like my own daughters.
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but there's some little things disturbing me. The photos of Isa, always decked out, in an interview on NBC her Mom said she would wear make up, jewelry, etc, she's only 6. The video where she's dancing to music and her mother said, "Look at me" and Isa had that smile, reminded me of that Tiaras show. Did she have her in talent shows or anything like this, I don't know, it just felt odd.

Beautiful little girl, I just wonder if parents were real strict on the kids, him a coach, all the kids on a team, which there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes parents are so motivated to have thier children be out there, be in the spotlight, kids can be so dominated. There can be emotional or even physical abuse, not saying there is here, but I'd like to hear more on what type of parents they are. If they were the type to want that perfect life, perfect children, they do come off to me like that and that takes money, also.

:seeya:

BBM: I totally agree ... and yes, it does make you think of "Toddlers and Tiaras" ...

:waitasec: Hmmm ... also made me think of JonBenet ...

JMO and MOO ...

:moo::moo::moo:
 
If that (highlighted in red) was the case, SC IMO would NOT tell the operator that he belive his daughter has been abducted.

Operator: 911 What is your emergency?

Celis: Hello. I need to report a missing child I believe she was abducted from my house.

And he repeat the exact same thing when he is redirected to the police.

And that's the exact reason his 911 call is so suspect. If he'd thought his child had wandered off or was possibly with another family member, I might be able to understand his reaction. But he stated he thought she was abducted, stolen from her bedroom by a stranger and he is perfectly calm and manages to laugh. I don't see how he'd be that calm if he'd actually hurt her either, but IMO he knows what happened to her. Can't remember who said it on NG, but it fit - " Hi , this is S C-e-l-i-s, my daughter's been kidnapped and I'd like a large pizza, pepperoni & extra cheese please."
 
So they recruit 6 year old little girls?

I am confused how it got started that this is tied to a Mexican drug cartel. Is this because the Celis family happens to be Hispanic?

Does the cartel only target Hispanic families?

imo

No, it is it because they are Hispanic, I believe that some locals have heard this rumor. ( and stated it was a rumor)
 
Okay! We get it! Arizona is completely unlike any other place in the nation. Or maybe on earth, for that matter. No other place has mixes of extremes, regular folks plus gangs or garden variety criminals. None! Only Arizona!

Look, I don't know what you think New England is like, but we aren't all sitting on walden pond in colonial houses behind white picket fences and looking at beautiful foliage 12 months of the year. . . :floorlaugh: :eek:hoh:

This has to be the most awesome thing I have read today.
 
Okay! We get it! Arizona is completely unlike any other place in the nation. Or maybe on earth, for that matter. No other place has mixes of extremes, regular folks plus gangs or garden variety criminals. None! Only Arizona!

Look, I don't know what you think New England is like, but we aren't all sitting on walden pond in colonial houses behind white picket fences and looking at beautiful foliage 12 months of the year. . . :floorlaugh: :eek:hoh:

With a name like "Gardenlady", I DID assume you were sitting on Walden pond, looking at beautiful foliage 12 months a year! And wearing a beautiful flower hat and typing with your gardening gloves, too!
 
One thing that had slipped my mind was the break in and attack on the three little girls 10 miles away. How could anything be weirder than that?
And who knows if someone had not alerted and he ran out, he might have been there to abduct one of those girls. Has there been anymore released on that case? jmo
 
My dad was a marine in Vietnam - Semper Fi!

With all due respect Pax, my son got lost for 2 hours at DisneyWorld on Christmas Eve 4 years ago. I was a complete MESS!! You have no idea how upsetting this was. I reported it to Park Police after a few minutes of looking on our own. I knew everything he was wearing down to the color of his underwear, lol! Also, (no tomatoes, please) I had had a few glasses of wine before it happened at dinner (it was a holiday, vacation and we were not driving). Trust me that will sober you up in an instant. I was crying, panicking, hyperventilating and ended up vomiting in the office while they made me wait with my daughter. I did NOT want to be taken away from the area where we had lost him. It was in a huge crowd/mob of people and he had gotten knocked down by a man and we just could not find him. Eventually my husband found him (thank goodness) but the park police had sent out a bulletin and the whole park was looking for him during those two hours.

That 911 call was what did it for me. There is no way (after my own personal experience) that he could wake up at 8am go in his baby daughter's room (his youngest and only daughter) see her window open and screen off and just casually convey to 911 that she was abducted and not know the simplest of things such as what she was wearing, how tall she was, how much she weighed her cotton-pickin' BIRTHDAY!! No way. Sorry. I was supporting them before I heard that call and his demeanor, but there is just no way anyone no matter how well trained or how naturally calm you are could be that nonchalant in that situation. Even if he was under the influence of drugs or alcohol I promise you he would still have known the simple answers to those questions and he wouldn't have needed to add all that extraneous info. Heck he even knew his wife's height (I doubt seriously my husband has any clue how tall I am. :moo:

IMO, the part that struck out to me the most was when he had difficulty spelling the child's name (OR) at least it appeared he had difficulty because he began over and spelled it a 2nd time. There is no language barrier with the spelling of a name.

I got the strange impression that he maybe was not as close to this child because of that and because he seemed to struggle on a few other things regarding her, as the operator asked him questions about her. It just seemed odd to me. Especially the name spelling.
 
I think you could be describing any town in the USA. And isn't it funny it is always the south part of town? Here it is S. Dallas.

Right in the middle of Tucson is a CITY one square mile in size that is called THE CITY OF SOUTH TUCSON, they have their own police and fire dept, city council etc, it is only one sqaure mile in size and it is 99% old family traditional hispanics, there are a lot of drugs and prostitution there but it isnt any worse than any other inner city type ghetto in the nation and I particularly enjoy the area for its good authentic ethnic foods and mom and pop stores but that is just me.
 
Regarding the questions of why Isa might be wearing shorts and tank top instead of her pajamas:

My little princess Richman has a large selection of sleepwear. She has princess long nightgowns, princess shortie nightgowns, long pants and top pajamas, short pants and top pajamas.

What does she often choose to sleep in? A pair of soccer shorts and an old (super soft) tshirt of mine.

I don't think there is anything nefarious in her choice of sleepwear for the night she was abducted. Kids are kids and six years old is old enough for her to have formed her own ideas of "fashion and comfort".:moo:

I do not put to much on what she was wearing or what the brother at first guessed she was wearing. If you ask my kids what the other wore the other night they would both say pajamas even though I think each kid has 2 pairs of pajamas b/c they do not like wearing them. They prefer everyday clothes. Soft shorts comfy t shirt or tank top. Also if asked to describe the clothes my son would say his sister she was wearing something pink and yellow and my daughter would say her brother was wearing something with a superhero most likely batman. Which would normally be right. So the brother is more then likely picking out pink and green b/c those are the colors she is most seen in.
 
:seeya:

BBM: I totally agree ... and yes, it does make you think of "Toddlers and Tiaras" ...

:waitasec: Hmmm ... also made me think of JonBenet ...

JMO and MOO ...

:moo::moo::moo:

Yikes... if that picture of Isa makes you think of Jon Benet and Toddlers and Tiaras, I can't imagine what you would think of pictures of me as a little girl and how my mother raised me.

:what:
 
Winterrose, I'm not picking on you, I've seen other posters mention "the pictures of Isa", which are concerning to them.

I personally haven't seen anything remotely close to the "Jon Benet" pics or the recent little girl done up to look like the prostitute from"Pretty Woman". If there is some seriously awful picture, I wish someone would link it.

It is very common for little girls to dress up and put on make up.
It's as common as little boys driving their Tonka trucks in the dirt or hammering nails with their plastic hammers. Children learn from play and from emulating their adult role models.

In my opinion, Isa looks like a very beloved, adored and treasured little princess, much like my own daughters.

Right, I understand that, I have two daughters, :D, but as part of a scenario of what type of parents they could be. Are they controlling, dominating, both of them seem to have an attitude that comes out a little in interviews. SC seems emotionless which is another trait of a dominant driven parent. So this just made me wonder are they the type to push kids and could there have been some abuse? What information did LE have to get SC out of the house? Were the kids ever in the ER for any reason, that type of thing I was actually getting at.
 
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