2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

FaerieB said:

I must say that I thought maybe I could see the heart, too, until I downloaded the pics from Muzikman. (http://www.filedropper.com/100909caseypicfolders) In there are the unretouched, unresized photos of the duct tape; it is well worth downloading the rest of the photos (mostly KC's party photos) to get the folder with these pictures!! Thanks MM!!

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I was just looking at those too. The more I blew up the photos, the less I could see the heart outline.

AZlawyer said:

I was just looking at those too. The more I blew up the photos, the less I could see the heart outline.

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Goes to show how much detail is lost/converted just by resizing photos. What a difference!

I came across an interesting post on another site about a dental impression that someone believes they see.
I can direct you to the site or link it but not sure it is allowed.

I wasn't able to see the impression but when I downloaded Muzikman's high res. images of the tape I do see something.
Its Q62 - botton left edge.

QB. said:

I came across an interesting post on another site about a dental impression that someone believes they see.
I can direct you to the site or link it but not sure it is allowed.

I wasn't able to see the impression but when I downloaded Muzikman's high res. images of the tape I do see something.
Its Q62 - botton left edge.

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I see the mark you're looking at. However, it appears to be at least 2/3 of the 2" width of the tape. I'm fairly confident that that would be much too big to be a primary tooth.

JMO.

ETA: I just looked at the same area on the back (adhesive) of the tape. It appears that mark is being made where the fibers are moved.

ETA photos

Defense now says the tape wasn't over Caylee's mouth and that there's DNA to prove that a "stranger" was involved:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...omebody-else-is-the-killer-of-this-child.html

<snipped>

"The state has led you to believe that there's duct tape around the mouth," attorney Linda Kenney Baden tells CBS' Maggie Rodriguez. "All we can say is that's going to be a disputed issue."

On the duct tape, DNA was found that belongs to an unidentified person, and that evidently is key to the defense's approach."

FaerieB,
I am not sure I do see it, but this poster described what they saw and it was convincing.
The impression appears, according to the poster, at the left edge of the tape Q62 towards the bottom of the tape.

QB. said:

I measured my dental impression and its 1 1/2 inches.

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Sorry, I just don't see anything that is not explainable when you compare it to the reverse side. If I haven't captured the correct part of the tape, please steer me in a direction.

Just wanted to add that, after a private conversation with QB, I figured out we were talking apples and oranges. I thought we were referring to Caylee's dental impression but in reality someone else had suggested it was KC's impression we were looking at. The claim is that KC used her teeth to tear the tape (see attachment) and you can see her dental arch as well as supposed teeth. That poster says you can see the impression just above and to the left of the H. I've been over that picture to the point of making myself ill, and just don't see it.

angeldust said:

If you download this doc there is a pic near to bottom of the file that clearly shows a heart shaped sticker on tape I am new here so hope i have this right

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252744/detail.html

sorry if im wrong

pages 38 and 39

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I have been following the Haileigh C. case for the passed month or so....but came to WS because of the great details and intelligent theories pertaining to Caylee. Thinking of how horrible the last moments of Caylee's life must have been is gut-wrenching. Seeing these photos for the first time, tonight, I am full of tears. These pictures really bring it home. I am sure when the jury sees these pics and the ones of Caylee's little bones.......................that horrible @&%# is finally going to have to deal with consequences.

FaerieB said:

Just wanted to add that, after a private conversation with QB, I figured out we were talking apples and oranges. I thought we were referring to Caylee's dental impression but in reality someone else had suggested it was KC's impression we were looking at. The claim is that KC used her teeth to tear the tape (see attachment) and you can see her dental arch as well as supposed teeth. That poster says you can see the impression just above and to the left of the H. I've been over that picture to the point of making myself ill, and just don't see it.

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IMO this is along the same lines as was discussed ad infinitum of the recovery scene photos supposing one could see a skull in ever bit of leaf and under ever tree trunk and against each root. Also a cat, IIRC.

Pictures by themselves can be made to appear as many things they are not, especially in imagination when we were not there to see the actual object being photographed. Therefore, in no way disrespecting any one elses opinion , and not to disparage anything seen by anyone, I do not think these are teeth marks. They are indentations to be sure, but I highly doubt teeth impressions would be CSI worthy after months underwater and exposed to elements. Much the same as fingerprints. I just dont see the logic of it.

and the pictures are highly subjective without eyewitness backup.

no skulls, no hearts, no teeth marks, no book, no cat. IMOO

LawRig said:

IMO this is along the same lines as was discussed ad infinitum of the recovery scene photos supposing one could see a skull in ever bit of leaf and under ever tree trunk and against each root. Also a cat, IIRC.

Pictures by themselves can be made to appear as many things they are not, especially in imagination when we were not there to see the actual object being photographed. Therefore, in no way disrespecting any one elses opinion , and not to disparage anything seen by anyone, I do not think these are teeth marks. They are indentations to be sure, but I highly doubt teeth impressions would be CSI worthy after months underwater and exposed to elements. Much the same as fingerprints. I just dont see the logic of it.

and the pictures are highly subjective without eyewitness backup.

no skulls, no hearts, no teeth marks, no book, no cat. IMOO

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I see your point. In looking at the photo, I can see where it appears to be some kind of indentation and looking at it longer, I could convince myself that it is teeth impressions, but if you were to suggest it was something else, I could easily swing that way too. So I would have to disregard this impression if I was a juror looking at it.

CuriousTwo said:

Defense now says the tape wasn't over Caylee's mouth and that there's DNA to prove that a "stranger" was involved:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...omebody-else-is-the-killer-of-this-child.html

<snipped>

"The state has led you to believe that there's duct tape around the mouth," attorney Linda Kenney Baden tells CBS' Maggie Rodriguez. "All we can say is that's going to be a disputed issue."

On the duct tape, DNA was found that belongs to an unidentified person, and that evidently is key to the defense's approach."

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She can try and debate it with Dr G but it is recorded as being over her mandible and portion of the maxilla, so her mouth and nose were covered.

ZsaZsa said:

She can try and debate it with Dr G but it is recorded as being over her mandible and portion of the maxilla, so her mouth and nose were covered.

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Also, in Roy K's LE interviews, he clearly talks about the duct tape around the mouth. Gosh, these people are horrible liars.

I'm confident that Dr. G took photos and other documentation.

Let the jury decide. They are the poor souls that will actually have to view the photos of it, and possibly other diagrams.

O/T But I feel like I'm thread stalking you ZsaZsa lol. I assure you that's not the case! I just keep clicking on the same links as you, and agree with many of your posts! :redface:

ZsaZsa said:

She can try and debate it with Dr G but it is recorded as being over her mandible and portion of the maxilla, so her mouth and nose were covered.

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Hi ZZ- Do you have a link to info that was released from Dr. G regarding the position of the tape on the skull? Been trying to find it and it would be helpful here, I think.

thanks!

FaerieB said:

Just wanted to add that, after a private conversation with QB, I figured out we were talking apples and oranges. I thought we were referring to Caylee's dental impression but in reality someone else had suggested it was KC's impression we were looking at. The claim is that KC used her teeth to tear the tape (see attachment) and you can see her dental arch as well as supposed teeth. That poster says you can see the impression just above and to the left of the H. I've been over that picture to the point of making myself ill, and just don't see it.

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I know FaerieB, I have looked and looked and really cannot locate the impression of the teeth he refers to. I wanted to see it but I don't.

tankgirl said:

Hi ZZ- Do you have a link to info that was released from Dr. G regarding the position of the tape on the skull? Been trying to find it and it would be helpful here, I think.

thanks!

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It can be found in the autopsy report. Page 2 section I C.

Hope this helps!

CuriousTwo said:

Defense now says the tape wasn't over Caylee's mouth and that there's DNA to prove that a "stranger" was involved:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...omebody-else-is-the-killer-of-this-child.html

<snipped>

"The state has led you to believe that there's duct tape around the mouth," attorney Linda Kenney Baden tells CBS' Maggie Rodriguez. "All we can say is that's going to be a disputed issue."

On the duct tape, DNA was found that belongs to an unidentified person, and that evidently is key to the defense's approach."

Click to expand...

FaerieB said:

It can be found in the autopsy report. Page 2 section I C.

Hope this helps!

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It appears the defense is going to argue about the placement of the duct tape. Moreover, whether it occluded the nose and thereby obstructed both airways. There are Emails regarding the ME not taking scaled photos of the tape when it was on the skull. Measurements were not taken because the ME thought the full measurements would be done by the FBI. The prosecutor is asking if anyone did take scaled photos, before the duct tapes were seperated, so a computerized recreation image of the skull with tape can be done to show the tape was over the mouth and nose areas. page 638-639 of 1405

In the autopsy report the ME says on page 2 section I C that "a portion of the maxilla" was covered by the duct tape. If she did not include scaled measurements (of the width of the overlapping duct tape and maxilla area) and if others in the FBI did not take them it may make it hard to prove both airways were obstructed.

I have included a photo of a human anatomy drawing of a skull, with a maxilla, for reference.

http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/generateexhibit.php?ID=3535

Please do not shoot the messenger. This is just my two cents on what the defense may claim.

I typed this up from the ME's report, and posted it another thread. Posting it here too for reference regarding the tape on Caylee's skull. Please note that not only Dr. G observed the tape, but Drs. Utz and Schultz as well.


Office of the Medical Examiner; Report of Examination

excerpt from Dr. G

Findings
I.
C. Several overlapping pieces of duct tape, over the anterior portion of the lower skull, including mandible and a portion of the maxilla
1. Duct tape still attached to scalp hairs
2. Mandible still in approximate anatomic position with no visible soft tissue beneath the duct tape

excerpt from Dr. G

Skeletal Remains:

The skull was initially received in a separate paper bag with duct tape over the lower portion of the face with the tape still attached to some of the scalp hair. A large portion of the scalp hair was in a mat under the skull. The mandible was still in its approximate anatomic location in spite of comple skeletonization.
(See attached reports by Dr. Utz and Dr. Schultz.)

excerpt from Dr. Utz

Attached to the hair and overlying the posterior mandible and maxilla are several pieces of overlapping gray tape.

excerpt from Dr. Shultz

A hair mat was noted on the base of the skull and grayish colored tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas. The tape remained in place because it was adhered to the hair of the skull. In addition, the mandible was still retained underneath the base of the cranium positioned slighty posterior. Dr. Utz removed the tape...

Opinion: Considering the dispersal of the skeletal remains, it would not be expected to find the mandible in this position unless something affixed the mandible in this position prior to decomposition and the hair matting forming. In skeletal cases involving surface depositions, the mandible and cranium are normally found disarticulated because there is nothing to hold the mandible in place after the soft tissues decomposes. Based on the position of the tape and mandible, it can be inferred that the mandible remained in this position because the tape held it in place prior to the hair forming into a matt on the base of the skull.

This just makes one feel sick inside.