Weekend Discussion thread 04/21-24/2012

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I have been studying the map of Tori's walk home. Several have suggested that the CCRH was the first parking lot MR could have parked. I may be looking at it wrong but TLM and Tori were in front of the CCRH when the surveillance video caught them. They passed a side street and another parking entrance to get there. Am I missing something? JMO
 
tmhco said:
I have been studying the map of Tori's walk home. Several have suggested that the CCRH was the first parking lot MR could have parked. I may be looking at it wrong but TLM and Tori were in front of the CCRH when the surveillance video caught them. They passed a side street and another parking entrance to get there. Am I missing something? JMO
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No, I think you have it right, he went past the main parking lot and parked in a small lot at the other side. No doubt in my mind that he didn't want anyone to see them getting in the car.MOO
 
tmhco said:
I have been studying the map of Tori's walk home. Several have suggested that the CCRH was the first parking lot MR could have parked. I may be looking at it wrong but TLM and Tori were in front of the CCRH when the surveillance video caught them. They passed a side street and another parking entrance to get there. Am I missing something? JMO
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And for those who think he couldn't have just pulled up to Oliver Stephens to pick them up( if he really thought they were babysitting) I just found Oliver Stephens on Google Street View and lo and behold school buses lined up with the parents vehicles lined up behind them. So IMO that is just a load of cr*p.
Dang, my link isn't working!! Swedie!!! Help!!! lol
 
Here are google map pics of Oliver Stevens Public School in May 2009 shortly before dismissal. You can see that the parents or people picking up students park either in the very long driveway leading up to the circle at the front of the school where they would go to turn around and leave the school after the pickup or on Pavey St, right across from the school. It doesn't look too busy or congested for MR to have parked there. Especially since he was there at 3:05pm. He could have gotten a spot right at the top of the driveway.

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So there are no restrictions about parking at the school for picking up children. Just another reason, in a long line of other reasons, why this was obviously an abduction.



MOO
 
Mystic said:
that's exactly how i have felt it occurred, VS had seen TLM walking the dog/s and didn't feel threatened at all to talk to her or walk off with her
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I'm pretty sure that neither TLM or her mother CM ever walked a dog a day in their life but that's JMO.
 
Yes, but 84 seconds prior to TLM and TS coming into view, he drove past the same spot TLM and TS were seen on video, meaning that he could have simply stopped and picked them up anywhere on the street as he more than likely had past them while walking, or if they were not yet to the main lot he could have pulled in there.

MR was behaving evasively during the pickup by going up to a secluded parking lot furthest away from the school... Not to mention the area where that lot is, is fairly secluded from view because of the geography of the area.

I also listened to his 28 min interview with the police, I think that interview alone shoots holes in his credibility and if I was a member of the jury I would have noticed that during the interview, not once did he mention Victoria by name, it was "that girl" "the little girl" the entire city was calling her Tori by that time. He was also reluctant to give up names of his girlfriends, a person with nothing to hide would have easilly volunteered names, not knowing TLM's last name either???? Come on.... I found it quite interesting how he brought up MR car as well.... Im thinking at that point MR knew they were onto him... Just the cocky way the officer said what he said about his car and the paint.... I'm guessing that from that interview onward he may have had surveillance on him 24/7 watching his moves up until his arrest a few days later.
 
maxfactor said:
And for those who think he couldn't have just pulled up to Oliver Stephens to pick them up( if he really thought they were babysitting) I just found Oliver Stephens on Google Street View and lo and behold school buses lined up with the parents vehicles lined up behind them. So IMO that is just a load of cr*p.
Dang, my link isn't working!! Swedie!!! Help!!! lol
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Lol Max. I have picked my grandbabies up from school and there are no parking signs on both sides of the street with the hours people are not suppose to park there. The thing is most people do though. They stay out of the bus loading zone until all the buses have gone and then you see other vehicles pull into the buses parking spots. I think this is common at most schools. JMHO and what I have experienced and seen. HTH. MR even drove down Fyfe Ave. making sure TLM was getting him a child. For the whole minute or probably less he would have had to stop for Tori and TLM to hop into the car goes to show MR didn't want anyone seeing him picking up Tori. He deliberately hid in CCRH parking lot out of sight. This way if Tori should have put up a fight or struggle no one would see or hear, so MR was hoping. His planned worked because no one saw anything in that parking lot when TLM pushed Tori into MR's car. MOO.
 
SFB73 said:
Yes, but 84 seconds prior to TLM and TS coming into view, he drove past the same spot TLM and TS were seen on video, meaning that he could have simply stopped and picked them up anywhere on the street as he more than likely had past them while walking, or if they were not yet to the main lot he could have pulled in there.

MR was behaving evasively during the pickup by going up to a secluded parking lot furthest away from the school... Not to mention the area where that lot is, is fairly secluded from view because of the geography of the area.

I also listened to his 28 min interview with the police, I think that interview alone shoots holes in his credibility and if I was a member of the jury I would have noticed that during the interview, not once did he mention Victoria by name, it was "that girl" "the little girl" the entire city was calling her Tori by that time. He was also reluctant to give up names of his girlfriends, a person with nothing to hide would have easilly volunteered names, not knowing TLM's last name either???? Come on.... I found it quite interesting how he brought up MR car as well.... Im thinking at that point MR knew they were onto him... Just the cocky way the officer said what he said about his car and the paint.... I'm guessing that from that interview onward he may have had surveillance on him 24/7 watching his moves up until his arrest a few days later.
Click to expand...

BBM

Well actually they didn't have surveillance on him from the time of the interview because they went back the next day to photograph the car in the daylight and he was nowhere to be found for the next few days. He left his mother's house after the interview and didn't appear to return to Woodstock until the day of his arrest.

MOO
 
The way I see it TLM was seen on video kidnapping VS and she believed that she just failed the lie detector test, that may i add investigators testified interviewing MR for information to use in that test ... The one and only way out of a 1st degree murder charge was to play the naive girl intimidated by her lover and implicate MR. She was first charged as an accessory, so it almost worked. It wasn't until MR was arrested and her interview with detective Smyth approx ten days later that her charges were upgraded to first degree murder. So I do not believe for one moment that she confessed because it was the right thing to do.*

Side note: TLM testified *“I said that I would take the fall for everything, that I would say it was all me. He had more to lose than I did. He had a life, a job, things going for him and I had nothing.”. *Now how could she if MR raped VS ... TLM could not take the fall for that...so I doubt that statement would have gave him any comfort ... But it would have made her look like the vulnerable naive girl she was trying to portray.*





*
 
Tahorn said:
The way I see it TLM was seen on video kidnapping VS and she believed that she just failed the lie detector test, that may i add investigators testified interviewing MR for information to use in that test ... The one and only way out of a 1st degree murder charge was to play the naive girl intimidated by her lover and implicate MR. She was first charged as an accessory, so it almost worked. It wasn't until MR was arrested and her interview with detective Smyth approx ten days later that her charges were upgraded to first degree murder. So I do not believe for one moment that she confessed because it was the right thing to do.*

Side note: TLM testified *“I said that I would take the fall for everything, that I would say it was all me. He had more to lose than I did. He had a life, a job, things going for him and I had nothing.”[/B]. *Now how could she if MR raped VS ... TLM could not take the fall for that...so I doubt that statement would have gave him any comfort ... But it would have made her look like the vulnerable naive girl she was trying to portray.*

*
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Did TLM really think this.....I guess compared to her, he had a car, and he received Pimp payments...so if this is what she calls "things going for him"!!! I wonder what she thinks of him now???
 
maxfactor said:
And for those who think he couldn't have just pulled up to Oliver Stephens to pick them up( if he really thought they were babysitting) I just found Oliver Stephens on Google Street View and lo and behold school buses lined up with the parents vehicles lined up behind them. So IMO that is just a load of cr*p.
Dang, my link isn't working!! Swedie!!! Help!!! lol
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Respectfully, I don't remember anyone saying that you can't pull up into the school. Both [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7820576&postcount=377"]myself[/ame] and [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7819025&postcount=256"]Ardy[/ame] questioned whether you could because, at many schools, you can't.

As you can see by the google streetview, there is no parking on the street at any time on the school side, and during school arrival, lunch and departure times on the other side of the street. Judging by Kamille's photos of the views, it appears to be taken during school times since the buses are there, and the street itself is quite clear of cars parked illegally waiting.

School side:



Across from the school:



JMO
 
Tahorn said:
The way I see it TLM was seen on video kidnapping VS and she believed that she just failed the lie detector test, that may i add investigators testified interviewing MR for information to use in that test ... The one and only way out of a 1st degree murder charge was to play the naive girl intimidated by her lover and implicate MR. She was first charged as an accessory, so it almost worked. It wasn't until MR was arrested and her interview with detective Smyth approx ten days later that her charges were upgraded to first degree murder. So I do not believe for one moment that she confessed because it was the right thing to do.*

Side note: TLM testified *“I said that I would take the fall for everything, that I would say it was all me. He had more to lose than I did. He had a life, a job, things going for him and I had nothing.”. *Now how could she if MR raped VS ... TLM could not take the fall for that...so I doubt that statement would have gave him any comfort ... But it would have made her look like the vulnerable naive girl she was trying to portray.*





*
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Yet she took her punishment and later confessed to the actual murder. No benefit for her in that. JMO
 
Even if the argument is that there was no street parking, it still doesn't explain why he didn't use the first parking lot. He chose the one up and around the corner. He also passed a side street and drove right past them without stopping. JMO
 
Macright said:
JMO ..TM testified that VS did not know TLM..then she testified that VS would not walk away with strangers...anyone else see something wrong with those two sentences...JMO
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thank you.
 
Most parents at a school close to me, even if the school has spaces for parking will go around the corner and park because if you are in a line up you usually have to wait your turn in order to drive out..there are always those slow kids that keep parents waiting and blocking others so rather than wait (and most parents are usually in a rush) you park around the corner or away from the school...also from my days of picking up kids at school the school yard doesn't usually empty within a couple of minutes..there are always kids hanging around either waiting for pickup or talking with friends...that leads me to believe in the short time period that TS left school and was picked up by TLM there had to be other parents and kids around...no time to try and talk a strange kid into coming with her which led me to believe at the start that TLM was not a stranger to TS....JMO that is why I think that MR dropped TLM off while he went and filled up and probably told her that he would park at the seniors home/care home just in case TS, the child she told him she had to pick up and babysit was tardy....JMO
 
flipflop said:
Did TLM really think this.....I guess compared to her, he had a car, and he received Pimp payments...so if this is what she calls "things going for him"!!! I wonder what she thinks of him now???
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well yeah, like all the other women, she probably actually believed that he was a contractor and a dance instructor taking care of his sick mom (and inexplicably driving a car which he probably had a good cover story for)
 
tmhco said:
Yet she took her punishment and later confessed to the actual murder. No benefit for her in that. JMO
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As far as I know she was not classified a dangerous offender so it very much was a benefit to her, she will be 44 if she does the full 25 years.

<modsnip>.
 
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