Lisas parents

Lisas parents, inncoent or guilty of something to do with it

  • innocent totally

    Votes: 8 6.3%

  • Guilty

    Votes: 82 64.6%

  • innocent but complicit in some way

    Votes: 7 5.5%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 30 23.6%
  • Total voters
    127

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thanks ksstormy and redheadedgal for the videos and info

I dont think that dog handler is Mr Grime but I could be wrong, his dog looks like eddie, rip and bless his little cotton socks, also similar to keela, the blood dog, if it was mr grime and the cadaver dog indicated he would have used keela or if not usingher anymore another blood scenting dog to find forensics if no body was found

has it been reported anywhere it was Mr Grime?
 
Little Ol Me said:
I may have missed it, ..but I wasn't aware there was a video of the dog or handler that made the hit at the Irwin home on Oct. 17. The one indicated on the search warrent.
These video's seem to be from the Oct 19th search warrent. Is it known what dog or handler was used on the 17th?
Thanks.
Click to expand...


the cadaver dog hit in the home on the 17th and a warrant was then issued to search and or remove items from the home, is how i understand it, see original documents here

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf
 
you don't think this is grime? (and most likely morse... definitely not keela)

picture.php



grime from dec 2011 @ detroit re: d'andre lane/bianca jones murder trial:

martingrimebjcase.JPG


same gray hair... same facial expression...
 
redheadedgal said:
you don't think this is grime? (and most likely morse... definitely not keela)

picture.php



grime from dec 2011 @ detroit re: d'andre lane/bianca jones murder trial:

martingrimebjcase.JPG


same gray hair... same facial expression...
Click to expand...



that is him ok unsure if it was him at irwins
 
redheadedgal, i have looked again at the videos and have to agree it does seem like mr grime, after all, hes changed a little from 2007 i guess and here is a picture of morse about three quarters of the way down this page

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id421.html

certainly looks like the springer spaniel in the video

as I said before, mr grime has had considerable success and has wonderful and very stringent testing and training methods, so it changes everything for me in this case

This is a useful blog with lots of info on mr grimes dogs and cases worked on

http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.co.uk/
 
Clutchbag said:
redheadedgal, i have looked again at the videos and have to agree it does seem like mr grime, after all, hes changed a little from 2007 i guess and here is a picture of morse about three quarters of the way down this page... snipped for brevity
Click to expand...

i knew you'd see it :great:

thanks for the pic of morse... i was looking for one... he is definitely the dog in the vid as per the pattern of white and brown on his face.


:seeya:
 
upon watching the vids of the dogs again, i think grime had two dogs in KC... morse and lewis? the second one doesn't look like keela and i believe i read that eddie was retired...

i read an article where grime requested a no fly order while his dogs were searching at another crime scene in the US and one was requested and granted over lister st...
 
redheadedgal said:
upon watching the vids of the dogs again, i think grime had two dogs in KC... morse and lewis? the second one doesn't look like keela and i believe i read that eddie was retired...

i read an article where grime requested a no fly order while his dogs were searching at another crime scene in the US and one was requested and granted over lister st...
Click to expand...

BBB, ITA. There are two different dogs in those two different videos. I *think* the one in the Yahoo link is Keela. The markings on both of the dogs sides and the circle around the base of the tail sure look like Keela's markings. I can't say it absolutely is because it's such a long camera shot. LE did a good job covering their bases with the dogs, IMO. :moo:
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmHdPGyQt2M"]'Send In The Dogs' - Martin Grime - YouTube[/ame]

From 3.30 mins in here you can see keela at work and compare her markings

In general a great video
 
As far as I am concered, this case is over. The parents won't comply, won't cooperate. Such a shame Baby Lisa, such a da_m shame. I don't know for sure which one of them killed you, but I know one of them did. God bless you Bably Lisa, my prayers are you didn't suffer..:heartbeat:
 
4Jacy said:
As far as I am concered, this case is over. The parents won't comply, won't cooperate. Such a shame Baby Lisa, such a da_m shame. I don't know for sure which one of them killed you, but I know one of them did. God bless you Bably Lisa, my prayers are you didn't suffer..:heartbeat:
Click to expand...

You know, you may be right, I have been kinda thinking the same thing lately. The KCPD are pretty poor, as far as I have heard, & I am sure that Bradley's lawyer makes more in a week than their entire yearly budget. In this sick, horrid world of our today, MONEY TALKS.

That poor, poor little baby.
 
It is so easy to excuse, one by one, each and every seemingly suspicious action (and lack of action) by these parents. And I like to do that. I always want to be able to feel people are totally innocent; especially parents of missing/murdered children.

But it would be interesting if we could see a full, detailed list of all of those suspicious events. One or two ~ anyone could understand and excuse but even my conservative nature rebels against the number of excuses I have to invent to allow these parents to claim the quality of innocence.

The magnitude of excuses I am required to create in addition to their espoused right-to-adult-time attitude puts a real damper on my support of their innocence.
 
ExpectingUnicorns said:
It is so easy to excuse, one by one, each and every seemingly suspicious action (and lack of action) by these parents. And I like to do that. I always want to be able to feel people are totally innocent; especially parents of missing/murdered children.

But it would be interesting if we could see a full, detailed list of all of those suspicious events. One or two ~ anyone could understand and excuse but even my conservative nature rebels against the number of excuses I have to invent to allow these parents to claim the quality of innocence.

The magnitude of excuses I am required to create in addition to their espoused right-to-adult-time attitude puts a real damper on my support of their innocence.
Click to expand...

I totally agree.
... And when I saw a family member of Bradley's posting pictures on social media of a party that Deborah & Jeremy had at their home on the 7 month anniversary of Lisa's disappearance/demise, and I counted 4 different kinds of alcohol in the pics.... well... it just made things even MORE clear for me. Why would you continue to hold drinking parties, especially on the anniversary of the night your child was "kidnapped", when you claim to have been too intoxicated to remember the last time you even saw your missing baby?? As a parent, this simply makes NO sense to me.
 
ExpectingUnicorns said:
But it would be interesting if we could see a full, detailed list of all of those suspicious events. One or two ~ anyone could understand and excuse but even my conservative nature rebels against the number of excuses I have to invent to allow these parents to claim the quality of innocence.
Click to expand...

-jeremy's first overnight shift... and stayed longer than expected
-deb drank supposedly to a black out state with three young children in her care... children who were awake watching tv while she was drinking... yet she said she only drank/had her adult time when the children were in bed
-no report of any intruder evidence left at scene
-three cell phones reportedly missing
-call from one phone to MW's phone even though the two stay they don't know each other
-deb's voice mail was attempted to be accessed the night of the 3rd/4th
-cell phone pings don't go any further than 1/5th to 1/3rd (?) of a mile away from house
-dumpster fire night of the 3rd/4th that caught the attention of police
-deb's changing story about what happened that evening/night
-police tests conducted demonstrated difficulty of getting into house via window
-JI requested to end interview with police on october 7th
-police made announcement that parents had "stopped cooperating"
-deb said she hadn't asked the boys what they heard
-first interview with the boys was cancelled by parents
-cadaver dog hit on october 17th
-17+ hr very thorough search of home/property on october 19th with numerous items taken by police... if you watch video of that day it's very obvious that more than 7 items were taken as evidence... there were plastic bags full of items as well as paper bags and a few boxes... no idea why this all wasn't indexed... maybe it was and only those 7 items were made public?
-reports of recently overturned dirt in the backyard
-parents refuse to allow police to interview them separately
-national media only not local given interview rights
-allowing network to film boys on halloween
-parents go on dr phil and all deb wants to do is boo hoo over how mean the public is being to her on social media... as well, RR says the only time she cried in his presence was when she spoke of this same thing
-debit card theft/name change website that was really a stationary site
-7th mo anniversary party
-boys don't react positively to deb at first anniversary vigil
-police say they have been unable to clear the parents and would like to talk to deb as she and only she has information that is important to the case
-the missing vs kidnapped poster issue... does it really matter? but for some reason missing posters are being torn down and replaced with the other version
-JI's family having never met lisa
 
redheadedgal said:
-jeremy's first overnight shift... and stayed longer than expected
-deb drank supposedly to a black out state with three young children in her care... children who were awake watching tv while she was drinking... yet she said she only drank/had her adult time when the children were in bed
-no report of any intruder evidence left at scene
-three cell phones reportedly missing
-call from one phone to MW's phone even though the two stay they don't know each other
-deb's voice mail was attempted to be accessed the night of the 3rd/4th
-cell phone pings don't go any further than 1/5th to 1/3rd (?) of a mile away from house
-dumpster fire night of the 3rd/4th that caught the attention of police
-deb's changing story about what happened that evening/night
-police tests conducted demonstrated difficulty of getting into house via window
-JI requested to end interview with police on october 7th
-police made announcement that parents had "stopped cooperating"
-deb said she hadn't asked the boys what they heard
-first interview with the boys was cancelled by parents
-cadaver dog hit on october 17th
-17+ hr very thorough search of home/property on october 19th with numerous items taken by police... if you watch video of that day it's very obvious that more than 7 items were taken as evidence... there were plastic bags full of items as well as paper bags and a few boxes... no idea why this all wasn't indexed... maybe it was and only those 7 items were made public?
-reports of recently overturned dirt in the backyard
-parents refuse to allow police to interview them separately
-national media only not local given interview rights
-allowing network to film boys on halloween
-parents go on dr phil and all deb wants to do is boo hoo over how mean the public is being to her on social media... as well, RR says the only time she cried in his presence was when she spoke of this same thing
-debit card theft/name change website that was really a stationary site
-7th mo anniversary party
-boys don't react positively to deb at first anniversary vigil
-police say they have been unable to clear the parents and would like to talk to deb as she and only she has information that is important to the case
-the missing vs kidnapped poster issue... does it really matter? but for some reason missing posters are being torn down and replaced with the other version
-JI's family having never met lisa
Click to expand...

Thank you, redheadedgal! It took you no time at all to come up with this long list!

And that's exactly the point I was hoping to make. While the validity of each and every one of these things can (and should) be argued ~ it is the mere number of them that cannot be logically argued. The totality of them is, imo, quite convincing that the parents are involved in some manner.

Oh, maybe I'm wrong. Could it possibly be they have been sucked into the same unfortunate vortex that Casey and Caylee experienced? Is this possible? Is it even more probable that, since Baby Lisa has never been found, that they will fare even better than Casey Anthony and family? Perhaps they won't even have to endure a pseudo trial like the Anthonys did.

My, my, my. Maybe it's just me. I was raised to believe that if a crime was committed against a child, that that child's victimization took precedence over everything and everyone else. That all other adults would put on their superman capes and never rest until that child was found. And if you're not strong enough to do that until the child is accounted for ~ then you should do it until you literally collapse.

Judge Judy would probably agree with me. But maybe it's just a generational thing. Real old fashioned, you know, like marriage.
 
AND...

- DB's changing the time that she supposedly put Lisa to bed

- DB's changing story about whether one child was in bed with her, two were with her or none with her (As she reported in the interview that she gave where she was inside the house and stated that the boys were "here in their beds" and pointed to their bunk beds.) Might have been Dr. Phil.

- DB's ability to switch from crying to being almost giddy when being interviewed

- DB making the statement that she "didn't care what anyone thought of her" but yet cried and whined about how people were being mean to her on Facebook and other social media sites.

- DB saying at one time that an intruder couldn't have come through the window, and then changing it to the window being the entry of the intruder.

There are more...I'm tired right now though...
 
-deb saying she was scared to go into the backyard b/c she afraid of what she might find
-deb's seeming control over jeremy with her hand on his knee in interviews
-jeremy saying "or someone who cheated on her husband"
-that darn cat jade keeps asking about :D
-a four yr old knew exactly the time she saw lisa at the house?
-in one of the newsreports (megan kelly?) there was drywall cut out behind the bedroom dresser which was visible since the dresser was moved away from the wall just after the search... is this easily explained b/c jeremy (an electrician) was re-wiring the house... or was it cut out by investigators during the 17+ hr search of the house?
 
-deb said she hadn't asked the boys what they heard
-first interview with the boys was cancelled by parents


what could be innocent excuses for these two points

They are definitely red flags, especially the first one!!
 
DB and JI referring to BL in past tense which conflicts with the benevolent kidnapper story they push. :moo:

DB's very limited use of BL's name in some of her interviews. :moo:

There should be a whole category for the statements of the attorney and Bill S. I find their public statements extremely suspicious, especially if you think of it from the perspective that they believe the parents are innocent. Why are they on television casting doubt, pushing misconceptions and sometimes outright lies for people they believe to be innocent?

From some of the GMA interview
Bill S questioned whether the cadaver dog was trained.

Joe T said the cadaver dogs could hit on a dirty diaper or 10 other non-human-remains items.

Joe T said something to the effect of there’s really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time.

From the Dr Phil Show
Joe T pushing the 2 men with a baby and the man in white sightings.

Joe T inflating the time the parents were interviewed to 40 hours.

Joe T states they are working with LE and the FBI, he doesn't know how well those two agencies work together.
 
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