Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #18 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

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Tuliptiptoe said:
I could be thinking of something else I read but I thought in the beginning they said the phone had NOTHING on it.

So he might have been wearing gloves, at least in the beginning when he grabbed Sierra and ditched the phone.

jmo, and I could be wrong, about the phone.
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I think what they meant was the phone records did not reveal anything. They found nothing on the phone that showed what happened to her such as text, calls.. etc.

They never mentioned fingerprints though, iirc.

IMO
 
That was how I understood the spokesman's statement too. When the driver tossed the phone, in his mind he had not committed a crime, although he intended to. I don't think at the moment he threw it, he was worried. Of course, he could not have been more wrong but he was under a rush of blood to the brain, not thinking rationally.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I think what they meant was the phone records did not reveal anything. They found nothing on the phone that showed what happened to her such as text, calls.. etc.

They never mentioned fingerprints though, iirc.

IMO
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"With no clues found with cell phone records or on her computer as active that Sierra LaMar was with Facebook and Twitter, and the fact that her cell phone was found in the opposite direction from what was supposed to be her way to school, one has to suspect that she was stalked and taken against her will."

Above quote from an article, I think you are correct.

I wonder if when they said she was being held against her will, if they actually thought that, and if so why? Or if it was just playing a game w/ AGT.

jmo
 
Hoping he tossed the phone quickly, without thinking, as she had it in her hand or was trying to use it. His DNA or prints should be on there, if so, and would make it much easier to link to him to "before" and "after" Sierra's abduction. Of course, his lawyer will say he found the phone and purse together, and then decided to move the bag to another location after he rifled through it...but most juries do have common sense and can put pieces together.

If Sierra was a 35-year old woman, it might be more difficult to prove she is not alive, without finding her body. But she is 15, with no way to take care of herself and survive, no reason to leave, i.e. escaping a bad relationship, and not even a boyfriend. She made enough references to not understanding why girls in high school have to have serious boyfriends to make it pretty clear she didn't have one. And clearly, this suspect is not a part of some organized ring of abductors who keep their victims alive for whatever purpose.

JMO...a jury will have common sense, but hoping Sierra will be found long before a trial.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Imo, to charge so soon they have an overwhelming amount of strong circumstantial evidence and far more cases are tried with convictions based on CE than case that have only direct evidence in them.

The DA is going to lay the case out link by link. The entire puzzle may not be there. It usually isnt in any case but it will have enough of the pieces there for the jury to see that no one other than this defendant did the things the DA is accusing him of.........

I do not believe that Sierra left with this man willingly but lets say for speculation sake she did. It still would not matter one iota. At anytime if Sierra wanted to go home and was held against her will by this then that is legally kidnapping someone. And not one juror is going to believe Sierra did not want to get away from this man who had intentions of doing grave bodily harm to her.

Imo, no jury is going to believe she even went willingly with a man she did not know and his defense attorney isnt going to find any link either between the suspect and the victim. So what reasonable juror is going to think she went willingly? CE are cases where common sense and logic will be in the forefront while connecting the dots. Does it make sense Sierra would go with a strange man and is never heard from again? Or that her own clothing that she was wearing that day wound up discarded along with her other personal possessions including her medication and has the suspect's DNA on it?

Not only do they tie him to Sierra's discarded items but they put Sierra in his car. So if he did not murder her then where is Sierra? The answer is obvious, imo. He kidnapped, raped, and murdered this young pretty girl because he could. There is no other logical explanation.

If they never find Sierra's body I dont think one person will question what his true motive was in committing this heinous crime. Why would he kidnap this young girl if it was not to rape her?

I dont know if he has murdered before but there is always a first time and violent people tend to esculate their violence especially if they arent caught right away.

No longer does it take many years in a missing body case. Regular citizens are more and more aware of them and these people will become potential jurors.

We have a beautiful girl on her way to the bus stop who never made it. We know now who she was with and imo, it was by force. This very social young girl who never went a day without social communication with either her family or friends and is gone but not without a trace. LE now knows who took Sierra away from her family and friends and in what vehicle.

What did you do with Sierra's body, Torres?
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Well said! Agree 100%
If there's a smiley for a :brokenrecord: I'll say it again - check the dumpters at the Safeway; AGT would have known when they are emptied...
 
The fact that Sierra wasn't able to escape from AGT's car makes me think that she was either knocked out, "stun gunned" or put in the trunk. Otherwise, I would think that she would have attempted to flee from the car and would have been successful (This may have happened though and maybe she wasn't) I'm assuming they passed at least one busy area where she would have the opportunity to jump out of the car. Since AGT's windows aren't tinted, i'm sure someone must have seen the two of them at some point during the drive...probably one of the many witnesses that LE has referred to.
 
OldSteve said:
Well said! Agree 100%
If there's a smiley for a :brokenrecord: I'll say it again - check the dumpters at the Safeway; AGT would have known when they are emptied...
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I *really* don't think it's the dumpsters at Safeway.

1. IMO, it doesn't fit with the rest of the crime.

2. The crime was committed in daylight hours, a grocery stores busiest normal day hours would be early morning before people go to work, lunch time, and after work.

3. I cannot speak for ALL Safeway stores but the one I worked at locked their dumpsters, AND had camera surveillance.

JMO
 
Tuliptiptoe said:
I *really* don't think it's the dumpsters at Safeway.

1. IMO, it doesn't fit with the rest of the crime.

2. The crime was committed in daylight hours, a grocery stores busiest normal day hours would be early morning before people go to work, lunch time, and after work.

3. I cannot speak for ALL Safeway stores but the one I worked at locked their dumpsters, AND had camera surveillance.

JMO
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My thought is AGT might have had access since he worked for Safeway - perhaps using them was part of his job?
 
OldSteve said:
My thought is AGT might have had access since he worked for Safeway - perhaps using them was part of his job?
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I have a hard time believing it. He worked there in 2010, I doubt things were exactly the same. Plus there are still the cameras.

And if MH did not have locks and/or cameras there is still the fact that it's daytime.

Produce department uses the dumpsters ALL day long and courtesy clerks dump garbage one time every hour the store is open. WAY too risky, imo.

And I just don't see him leaving the initial scene of crime and driving toward town. I think he either left her body in the general area of her house/bag/phone, or went somewhere secluded, esp. with his love of nature.

All jmo
 
OldSteve said:
My thought is AGT might have had access since he worked for Safeway - perhaps using them was part of his job?
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I don't think so because to him that was his safe hunting grounds. If a body happened to be found in a dumpster there goes his stomping ground to find more victims.

There is a RV park in the area where LE (UVAS)has been searching and dumpsters all over the place. Same trailer type that he lived in with his mom and wife. Perhaps they lived there once. I would concentrate in that area to search.

rvparkatuvas.jpg
 
krkrjx said:
I have no problem whatsoever with a circumstantial evidence case. I believe kidnapping could be proven if LE really has videos of this car in enough situations and at the right times and if Sierra's DNA is in that vehicle, especially if any was found in the trunk.

I am at this time concerned with what evidence LE has that says Sierra has died. They claim not to have any blood evidence but blood is not the only bodily fluid that might indicate a victim has died. So, does LE have something else?

I have thought about hairs but I do not know how long a person would have to be deceased for a death band to show up on a hair. So a hair with a death band on it is possible in this case, but is certainly not a given.

It appears as though something came back from the crime lab that points to Sierra having been in that vehicle most likely alive, and possibly after death. But what would that be? It seems reasonable to assume AGT cleaned out his car after the crime, but could he possibly be so far removed mentally from his criminal deeds that he didn't even bother to do that? Not probable, IMO. But still remotely possible.
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I'm not all that worried because SCSD has a proven history of being tight lipped and keeping lots of evidence very close.

I don't think they've exactly lied but they certainly mislead.

When they say they have skin fragments, that makes me think of something more than just skin cells. For an example, they might have pieces of skin embedded in a tire iron.

What they've released so far isn't enough to make me feel 100% certain AGT is guilty but I'm not ruling out that they have more.
 
Tuba said:
You have nuclear DNA in mind, resident in the hair bulb but I am talking about mitochondrial DNA resident in the hair shaft and quite well protected after the hair is shed. The mitochondrial DNA is present and protected by the shaft even in a cut hair.
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You are correct and I am grateful to you for straightening out my confusion.

Thank you!
 
cluciano63 said:
I think this could change, that eventually they may want Sierra found badly enough, although it is not usually up to the family to make a deal as far as I know. They would be consulted, but if LE feels it is the best thing to do, they could do it anyway.

It depends, IMO, on whether and when the family accepts that Sierra is not coming back. Right now, they don't accept that. I wonder if LE has shared all of their evidence or just what they have made public.
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If the family thought Sierra was alive, wouldn't they be eager to make a deal to rescue her ASAP? If they don't want to plea bargain, that implies to me that they believe she was murdered.
 
Lera213 said:
I don't think so because to him that was his safe hunting grounds. If a body happened to be found in a dumpster there goes his stomping ground to find more victims.

There is a RV park in the area where LE (UVAS)has been searching and dumpsters all over the place. Same trailer type that he lived in with his mom and wife. Perhaps they lived there once. I would concentrate in that area to search.

rvparkatuvas.jpg
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He worked at both MG Safeway's, too....they could check both of then I would think. I'm assuming this was at the same time?
 
I don't know what information you are all referencing that specifically stated they have Antolin's DNA in Sierra's bag, and Sierra's DNA in his car. According to the document submitted to the court, both instances of "DNA" were shown to have a "strong association" with the DNA belonging to both individuals.
The term "strong association" is a statistical term, which does not have any quantifiable value. It is an indicator of a relationship, but does not provide any numerical value of that relationship.


Another point I wanted to bring up is the possibility that ATG and Sierra had some contact with each other on the basis of their shared appreciation for Extacy. If you look at the pictures on his myspace page, he has two references to E. One is part of a caption of a picture of a cat, which reads "Thizzin". Another reference is the picture that is a doctored skittles bag, with the word "Thizzin". Thizzin is a term which refers to the act of taking extacy. Sierra had already expressed her appreciation for the substance in her twitter posts so it stands to reason they may have had contact in the past.
 
stillwatersc said:
If the family thought Sierra was alive, wouldn't they be eager to make a deal to rescue her ASAP? If they don't want to plea bargain, that implies to me that they believe she was murdered.
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You are right...they must deep down know she is dead, if they in fact are saying no bargaining. But I think they said as far as locating her body.
 
GrainneDhu said:
It sounds to me like she has tried to get the truth from him at least once before and he denied it.

She says she doesn't think he would do something like that but (paraphrasing) she isn't his shadow, either, so she cannot know.

I guess I don't see the denial because I'm not 100% convinced myself. The facts outlined do look incriminating but there's not enough detail for me to connect all the dots yet.

His mother is admitting the possibility he did it, which is a huge step it seems to me.
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I was thinking about this on my way home today. I have a son, 22, my only son and my youngest child. If he lived with me and a policeman came to the door I would assume he was in trouble. If he said to me "there's no evidence", I would think he meant, "they can't prove it", which to me is totally different than I didn't do it.
 
LittleMissContrary said:
Another point I wanted to bring up is the possibility that ATG and Sierra had some contact with each other on the basis of their shared appreciation for Extacy. If you look at the pictures on his myspace page, he has two references to E. One is part of a caption of a picture of a cat, which reads "Thizzin". Another reference is the picture that is a doctored skittles bag, with the word "Thizzin". Thizzin is a term which refers to the act of taking extacy. Sierra had already expressed her appreciation for the substance in her twitter posts so it stands to reason they may have had contact in the past.
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SBM

They know each other because they both have an interest in a drug? Seems like a stretch. They both liked to smoke marijuana, too, but I don't think that means they might have known each other.
 
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