The case for murder

CalElliot said:

Great point. The trouble with this whole case is the focus on investigating the victim rather than POI and potential suspects. Next step is to get the 911 calls released.

A HUGE red flag that LE is trying to block this. Why? And at whose bidding?

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Mrs. Holmes said:

Wow I just read one of the search warrants from July 15 and it seems obvious to me they thought RZ had killed MS and her suicide was her reaction. Even though she has been found dead they seem more interested in finding information about how she killed Max and not what happened to HER.

It turns out he died as a result of spinal injuries that caused the cardiac arrest.

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Pach said:

are there legal grounds or precedents in previous cases for blocking the release of 911 calls ?

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Mrs. Holmes said:

I think the perpetrator line for fear of destroying evidence would be a standard line in a search warrant.

I would think in their minds her suicide would further convince the police that RZ was likely the guilty party in Max's accident. Suicide is often seen as the actions of the GUILTY.

I think we have scene cases before that even after death a person in implicated in a crime?

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Mrs. Holmes said:

I think the perpetrator line for fear of destroying evidence would be a standard line in a search warrant.

I would think in their minds her suicide would further convince the police that RZ was likely the guilty party in Max's accident. Suicide is often seen as the actions of the GUILTY.

I think we have scene cases before that even after death a person in implicated in a crime?

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Mrs. Holmes said:

This isn't scientific or related to the post but at first glance when I learned of this story, I found the picture of JS unsettling. For me he gives off a creepy vibe. I wonder if all those botoxed people realize how strange they look. Maybe not... as they all seem to become part of some club and every one around them is all shot up and free of wrinkles. Even DS her face looks distorted by Botox.

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Mrs. Holmes said:

This isn't scientific or related to the post but at first glance when I learned of this story, I found the picture of JS unsettling. For me he gives off a creepy vibe. I wonder if all those botoxed people realize how strange they look. Maybe not... as they all seem to become part of some club and every one around them is all shot up and free of wrinkles. Even DS her face looks distorted by Botox.

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Mrs. Holmes said:

This isn't scientific or related to the post but at first glance when I learned of this story, I found the picture of JS unsettling. For me he gives off a creepy vibe. I wonder if all those botoxed people realize how strange they look. Maybe not... as they all seem to become part of some club and every one around them is all shot up and free of wrinkles. Even DS her face looks distorted by Botox.

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SmoothOperator said:

- Rebecca's cell phone being forensically investigated

- The inconsistent claim of a phonecall placed by Jonah Shacknai at 12:30am when there is no record of the call or message.

- A court documented lie from Jonah Shacknai repeatedly stating to LE that he never left the hospital during the hours in question.. This false statement used as probable cause in an affidavit for SW of Rady's security video to verify Jonah's statement..

- Found in a separate affidavit that Jonah changed that original statement(he'd made more than on one occasion) that he never left the hospital during the hours in question to his indeed having left the hospital around 1am and not returning to the hospital til after 7am(during those hours Rebecca's TOD along with discovery of her body occurred)

- there being no subpoenas for the RMcDH which would be mandatory in establishing Jonah's whereabouts during this time in question since he has changed where he states that he was from the hospital to now the RMcDH.

- there now being confirmed multiple witnesses to hearing a woman scream the night in question. ATLEAST one of those witnesses stating they attempted to tell LE of this more than once.

- confirmed witness that saw an UNidentified female at the Shacknai mansion during the time in question

- along with Nina's 10:41pm late night need to suddenly speak with Rebecca face to face.. When just hours prior she had been face to face with her having every opportunity in the world to discuss Max's accident as Rebecca was her ride from the airport when she arrived earlier in Coronado..

- strangely and again inconsistent with what phone records show Nina claims the text message was over an hour earlier in the evening when she sent it.. Phone records prove it to have been 10:41pm not 9:30

- one of the newest pieces of info to come to light that IMO I find to be the most IMPORTANT is seeing the grave mistake made by a physician on staff at Rady's Children's hospital and his mistake included stating false claims of inconsistent injuries as well as his belief that Max was suffocated
Prior to the fall. His taking this so far as to have a pending protective order in place and LE's full involvement of these false allegations.. IMO with as far as this grave mistake was taken by this doctor including social workers and LE there is no way possible that the parents of Max were not informed of this physicians mistaken beliefs and the legal steps being taken because of those false claims and allegations.. It was only after Max's thorough autopsy which was found to have been extensive severe injury to spinal column and brain stem that his mistaken claims and allegations were 100% disproved and found to have zero basis.. Proving the fall to have been accidental as well as all injuries consistent with the magnitude of that fall.. Sadly for Rebecca this was found too little, too late!! She was already dead..

Feel free to add to my list of info and evidence that would warrant her case being re-opened and thoroughly investigated.

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defense101 said:

Hmmm reading search warrants again..... LE didn't request the hospital video surveillance video until the 24th of august. wtf is that all about what freaking investigating did they do until August 24th when they needed evidence to prove suicide???

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time said:

Per blunt force trauma to the top of Rebecca's head ...

Seems examination by an ME could determine what possibly made it and if it was enough to daze her, knock her out, etc.

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lauriej said:

..ahhh..so, they'll "just take his word for it" that he was in fact there from 1:00-7:00..

..and add it to their "just taking his word for it" as to what he said on the voice mail ( that was a big part of why LE says she decided to kill herself.)

..and they wonder why the public ( and her family ) doubts/questions SDPD???

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Mrs. Holmes said:

I wonder if you can tell if it was a right handed or left handed person that made those knots? I haven't watched the video do the knots match up EXACTLY .. left over right type thing?

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sorrell skye said:

ITA Time.

If the subgaleal hemorrhages were the result of RZ's head striking the balcony balusters, or the balcony supports below, or the shrubbery, or even the exterior wall of the house, there should have been evidence of those surfaces on her scalp and/or in her hair (i.e. minute paint flakes from the balcony, minute rust flakes from the balcony, plant material from the shrubbery, or particles of the surface of the exterior wall of the house), especially considering the impact of a 9'2" fall.

If her head contacted the shrubbery, strands of her hair should have also been found in the shrubbery and/or pieces of shrubbery should have been found in her hair - again, considering the impact of a 9'2" fall.

ETA: No materials of the above sort were noted in the AR, which leads me to believe @ this point in time that the subgaleal injuries were caused by something other than the above-noted surfaces or objects.

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CalElliot said:

To the Reinvestigation Reasons list, I would add that LE did not document nor release the total amount of tow rope used at the crime scene. (If the total amount is inconsistent with a standard tow rope of the same manufacturer, there's a missing piece of rope that was removed from the scene.)

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CalElliot said:

Astonishing indeed. Brings me back to these three questions:

• Why did Adam Shacknai immediately conclude that Rebecca "hung herself," as per his text to Jonah?
  
• Why did Jonah Shacknai immediately accept that Rebecca "killed herself" as per his call to Dina?
  
• Why did LE in turn pursue such a lop-sided investigation?

What could cause these three things to happen in sync?

Could the document addressed to Jonah have been a statement about Dr. Peterson's speculation about Max being suffocated? And if so, how and when did it get there? If not, what could it have been? When did LE learn about the Peterson aspects?

That LE treated RZ body so disrespectfully because LE, however wrongly, assumed she was a child murderer, would explain (but not justify by any stretch of the imagination) some of their actions.

Any thoughts on what else could have been in the room, planted or not, that could have been so persuasive?

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CalElliot said:

Astonishing indeed. Brings me back to these three questions:

• Why did Adam Shacknai immediately conclude that Rebecca "hung herself," as per his text to Jonah?
  
• Why did Jonah Shacknai immediately accept that Rebecca "killed herself" as per his call to Dina?
  
• Why did LE in turn pursue such a lop-sided investigation?

What could cause these three things to happen in sync?

Could the document addressed to Jonah have been a statement about Dr. Peterson's speculation about Max being suffocated? And if so, how and when did it get there? If not, what could it have been? When did LE learn about the Peterson aspects?

That LE treated RZ body so disrespectfully because LE, however wrongly, assumed she was a child murderer, would explain (but not justify by any stretch of the imagination) some of their actions.

Any thoughts on what else could have been in the room, planted or not, that could have been so persuasive?

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CalElliot said:

One possibility: If it was a two-person job, one person could have propped up RZ body on the table while the other worked backwards to what turned out to be the bed to do the deed. That is, IF they used the tow rope's full uncut length, which I personally don't believe is the case. LE left out total rope length in their reports.

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time said:

I like how SD Sheriff's invoked the "Science doesn't lie" meme, yet any average middle school student could come up with more that should have been investigated.

I would take your questions a bit further. Did the cut/frayed end of the rope over the balcony match the other end hanging down? If not, then that would suggest the stories don't match, the rope was longer, etc. If I were teaching middle school students to 'investigate' a mock up version of this, I'm afraid they would not receive passing grades for the same performance we got from LE.

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Mrs. Holmes said:

From Time
Quote:
Expert pathologists have confirmed that Rebecca died while on her back – not from or while hanging. Lividity was fixed in her back, not in her legs or feet. Renowned pathologist Dr Cyril Wecht has reviewed the autopsy report and has concluded this is not a suicide and that she had blunt force trauma in four places on the top of her head, inconsistent with the fall and consistent with blows that could have rendered Rebecca unconscious.


WOW... just WOW!!!! this has to re-open the case.... and the murderer is still out there and getting all this info

Will JS cut and run for the border with all his money.... ????

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deanna82437 said:

Here are some links to the Dr. Drew episodes where the family attorney Anne Bremner was a guest and first spoke of RZ death occurring while she was on her back. As you can see it was early this month.

9/06 - Dr. Drew - Guest - Anne Bremner
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/06/ddhln.01.html

9/08 - Dr. Drew - Guest Anne Bremner - speaks of death came while on her back
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/08/ddhln.01.html

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Sharyne said:

[/B]


Since I do watch a lot of CSI shows and Forensic Evidence shows, I'm sure from the actual, true cases on Tru TV of Forensic Evidence shows, they now claim to be able to get finger prints from INSIDE gloves, and DNA as well.

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IWannaKnow said:

BBM




This is my best guess. I didn't have everything perfectly tied so the feet didn't come up as far as I thought they should have but this is what I think happened and she was cut down soon enough and laid on her back in the grass to account for the livor mortis on her back:

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greenpalm said:

FWIW, I set up the scenario on my porch, I was easily able to hop twice without losing my balance with my hands and feet bound. I also had my husband try to pick me up and throw me over without stepping off the carpet. He was able to do it by hooking one arm around my shoulders and the other under my knees. He didn't need to move his feet out onto the balcony where footprints other then mine would be left at all. (he didn't really throw me over )

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TorisMom003 said:

One thing to remember when thinking about the livor mortis, Rebecca was on her left side with her arms behind her back and her knees and legs bent while on the grass. If the livor mortis shows an even area across her back as opposed to more on her left side then it could not have been due to her being on the grass for all of those hours after Adam "cut her down".

MOO

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lauriej said:

..this is how sgt. nemeth explains the rope at the press conference..

http://www.10news.com/video/29065367/index.html
---approx. 36:40---press conference september 2/2011-




---------seriously, the "suicide weapon" and it's "possible" that's where it came from?

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AZlawyer said:

One of the things that convinces me that this was a murder and not suicide is that people who try the FIRST time to commit suicide don't anticipate--given their state of mind--that they will try to fight death when it comes. So such a person would not think to tie themselves up or gag themselves. That sort of planning comes from previous unsuccessful suicide attempts. Specifically, the self-gagging would come from a previous attempt in which she had disabled herself physically from resisting, but then called out and was saved. So there would have been a witness to that event. And the self-restraint used in that attempt would have been used because of an even earlier attempt in which she freed herself before dying. So IMO a "suicide" like this one would be at least a third attempt--and there is no info whatsoever about RZ ever previously attempting suicide or even being mentally inclined toward such a thing.

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Pach said:

Not sure if posted. Here's a new Forbes Business magazine news article on the Coronado case:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/09/25/money-mystery-murder-in-spreckels-mansion-case/

9/25/2011 @ 12:45PM
Money, Mystery, Murder(?) in Spreckels Mansion Case

By Victoria Pynchon

“A woman screams for help at 11:30 p.m. in a 27-room historic mansion in Coronado, California; a 6-year-old child, Max Shacknai, has fallen two days earlier and is in critical condition; the millionaire boyfriend and father of the child, Jonah Shacknai, and his girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, have been consumed by the boy’s care and condition in the hospital.”

So writes litigator and legal analyst Anne Bremner in her post More Questions than Answers – Justice Requires that Rebecca Zahau Case Be Reopened over at guest contributor Cathy Scott’s true crime home Women in Crime, Ink.

We’ve reported on the Zahau case ourselves here and here. My own last post noted that the San Diego Sheriff’s office agreed to re-open the case if they had any new leads. If you read Bremner’s article, there appear to be new leads aplenty. Yet the Zahau family’s continued calls for the investigation to recommence appear to be falling on deaf ears.

Why We Follow Money, Murder and Possible Corruption

She Negotiates is a deal-making blog for women hosted by the women’s business page of a mainstream financial magazine, Forbes.com. So why would we cover the purported suicide (and possible murder) of the live-in girlfriend of a pharmaceutical company CEO?

And why does the family persist in its belief that Rebecca Zahau met with foul play even though the state attorney general just last week declined Jonah Shacknai’s request to review San Diego County law enforcement findings about the deaths of his girlfriend and his 6-year-old son?

Why We Write

Whether Rebecca Zahau committed suicide or is the victim of foul play is less a concern for us than the possibility of corruption in the justice system. I don’t mean to sound callous. Of course a young women’s suicide or murder is tragic and heartbreaking. But that’s not why we write.

Guest contributor Cathy Scott writes because murder is her true crime gig. I write about the possible corruption of the justice system because the act of negotiation is the act of a free people and the principled basis for a free and vital economy.

Our freedom to contract is as important as our freedom of speech, assembly and religion. Every time we negotiate an agreement, we place our trust in the legal system to enforce that agreement if our bargaining partner turns out to be a snake oil salesman or is simply incapable of doing what she promised she would do in exchange for the promises we’ve made to her.

If we can’t trust the justice system to be . . . just . . . then we burden our economic energy with self-enforcement a la the Sopranos. And you know how ugly – not to mention time-consuming – that can be.

Criminal vs. Civil Justice

The line between the criminal and civil justice systems is not a bright and obvious one as the prosecution of civil cases following high profile criminal exonerations have proven. Think O.J. criminal (not guilty) vs. O.J. civil (“guilty”). A failure of the criminal justice system imperils the civil justice system as well because it diminishes the trust people and business place in its equitable functioning.

And those people currently occupying Wall Street aren’t feeling the love of either the economy or the justice system right now. Faith in both systems is a necessary pre-condition to an orderly society that also values free expression and the fair distribution of resources.

I do not write about the Zahau family’s request for the criminal investigation to be reopened because I have an opinion about suicide vs. murder or some other type of wrongdoing. I write about it because questions have been raised and remain unanswered. Because the law should not, cannot distinguish between the investigation of a suspicious death from the balcony of a millionaire’s mansion and one from the fire-escape of a housing project. It should not, cannot distinguish between a suspect who is the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and one who is a barista at Starbucks.

Why It’s Personal

I also write because Mr. Shacknai’s PR firm – Sitrick and Company - took the trouble to view my profile on LinkedIn after I posted Cathy Scott’s first article on the Zahau death. I didn’t like that, particularly because they weren’t simply looking for contact information, not having bothered to contact me.

It felt creepy. I don’t expect anything like it to ever happen again.

Anne Bremner, the attorney whose reporting we quote here, represents Rebecca Zahua’s family as they press authorities for a more thorough investigation into Rebecca’s death. Click here if you wish to donate to the Rebecca Zahau Fund.

About the Author - http://blogs.forbes.com/people/victoriapynchon/

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deanna82437 said:

Interesting comment on the below site that I posted yesterday. Written by writeaboutit. A MUST READ.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/09/25/money-mystery-murder-in-spreckels-mansion-case/

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sorrell skye said:

At the very least, it's apparent that LE was investigating MS's accident as a possible child abuse case/homicide, based on the probable cause hearing of July 15, 2011 for search warrant (#41920).

Page 6, line 21, DDA Cano asked Det. Adkins:

Detective, what training and experience do you have regarding the investigation of child abuse?

Det. Adkins goes on to list his pertinent experience.

Reading down further, page 8 of the probable cause hearing, beginning @ line 19:

At approximately 648 in the morning, Coronado Police Department received a radio call of a female who had hung herself at the above listed address.

Based on Det. Adkins testimony in court, it does seem as if consensus had already been reached with regards to suicide (but I will add that Det. Adkins is with the Coronado PD & may have been out of the loop of RZ's death investigation).

Here's the part I find most interesting - on page 11, Det. Adkins conveys his reasons for wanting to seal the search warrant, one of the reasons being (lines 19-21):

We do not wish to divulge the information contained within these documents for fear that the perpetrators can destroy evidence.

This search warrant was applied for & granted on July 15, 2011. RZ died two days prior on July 13.

My question: Since Det. Adkins was clearly investigating MS's death as a possible child abuse/homicide case, and RZ had died 2 days prior, who is the possible perpetrator(s) that he feared might destroy evidence?

Certainly not RZ. She was deceased, so it was obviously impossible for her to destroy evidence if the search warrants were made public.

ETA: Gosh - after reading my post, I'm not sure if it even belongs in this thread. I apologize for the off-topic, but I was responding to an earlier post. Perhaps I should move it to another thread.

ETA II: If the medical personnel & LE had relayed their suspicions regarding possible child abuse/homicide to MS's parents, and these suspicions were relayed to other family members - in my mind, that may provide motive for RZ's death, if RZ was murdered. There - now I'm on topic.

But I would still like to know who Det. Adkins was referring to when he testified that he feared the perpetrators might destroy evidence.

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time said:

Women in Crime link

Expert pathologists have confirmed that Rebecca died while on her back – not from or while hanging. Lividity was fixed in her back, not in her legs or feet. Renowned pathologist Dr Cyril Wecht has reviewed the autopsy report and has concluded this is not a suicide and that she had blunt force trauma in four places on the top of her head, inconsistent with the fall and consistent with blows that could have rendered Rebecca unconscious.

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Oh, my... this is news to me, but maybe others already saw this.

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sorrell skye said:

BBM

I'm skeptical of the bolded portion of this article.

The last we heard from Dr. Wecht was on Websleuth's radio on 9/18/2011, and he did not make any conclusive statements regarding the manner of death. IIRC, he was very careful to avoid making any definitive claims. What I remember him saying was that, in his opinion & based upon the AR, the manner of death should have been undetermined pending further investigation (paraphrasing).

Furthermore, I doubt that Dr. Wecht would come to any conclusion without conducting his own autopsy.

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Morag said:

If the rope was 75' or 60', then how much was left over after the 'project'? If x=the length for the feet, and y=the length for the hands, and z=the length for the noose, then x+y+z= either 75' or 60'. And if the total is less than 60' or more than 60' but less than 75', then where is the leftover piece? It is unlikely that Rebecca would have cut it all up and then left the property to dispose of the leftover bit. If it's not on the floor of the balcony room, where is it? Gotta be somewhere on the premises.

The SDSO did not tell us the exact lengths of all the bits, nor where any other lengths of rope might have been found, and I believe that this omission was deliberate.

And where are the tiny, ravelled bits of rope that would be near where the rope was cut, on that light gray carpet, or on the backyard table, or on the concrete walk, or in the grass of the lawn. Are those bits missing also, or was the rope cut elsewhere, or was the guest room vacuumed?

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sorrell skye said:

BBM

I'm skeptical of the bolded portion of this article.

The last we heard from Dr. Wecht was on Websleuth's radio on 9/18/2011, and he did not make any conclusive statements regarding the manner of death. IIRC, he was very careful to avoid making any definitive claims. What I remember him saying was that, in his opinion & based upon the AR, the manner of death should have been undetermined pending further investigation (paraphrasing).

Furthermore, I doubt that Dr. Wecht would come to any conclusion without conducting his own autopsy.

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