The ransom note & Patsy Ramsey, letter by letter.

Did Patsy write the ransom note?

  • Yes, Patsy wrote the note

    Votes: 289 91.2%

  • No, Patsy did not write the note

    Votes: 28 8.8%
  • Total voters
    317

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my_tee_mouse said:
So just to be clear, you're saying that cursive was her preferred writing method before the death? And she continued to use that as her preferred writing method after the death? No going from printing to cursive or printing to typing or cursive to typing? Do we have expanded examples of this? (More before/afters?)
Click to expand...

Probably like the rest of us, she sometimes prints and sometimes writes cursive sometimes mixes the styles. I suppose it depends on the situation. The fact that her cursive didn't contain the same a's as the RN doesn't indicate that she changed her style of writing, as ST has alleged (thus adding to his 'totallity of evidence'). Even in her printed exemplar she did not consistently use the same 'a's as the RN. The RN consistently has all "manuscript 'a's".
 
DeeDee249 said:
Interesting that you voted yet have not read about the case. Possibly you'd feel differently if you had. Experts actually did not say Patsy didn't write it. They said they could not rule her out (out of all the people who gave samples). She was the ONLY one who was not ruled out as the possible author of the note.
If your theory about the brother is correct (and many agree with you), who else BUT a parent would have written it. An intruder wouldn't have written a fake RN to cover for a family member any more than a family member would have written a fake RN to cover for an intruder.
there were 4 people known to have been in the home the night JB was killed. The deceased (JB) and her parents and brother. That is a fact. While there is speculation that others (JAR, Grandpa P, friend of BR etc) may have been present, that has not been proven.
Out if those 4 people, one was a dead child, so that leaves the parents and brother. One of them had to have written the note and the handwriting matches Patsy's more closely than anyone else. JR and BR were excluded as the authors of the note. So that leaves Patsy.
If you haven't seen them, there are side-by-side examples of the RD compared to Patsy's writing on this forum and elsewhere on line. It's worth a look.
Click to expand...

Hi Dee Dee, I got here 3 years ago, NO at that time I had no clue this case was here, and I was riveted to the case when it did happen and for a couple of years after. My post was FROM what I had known about the case.
And, I do believe that a good hand writing analysis can tell. However, I am no handwriting analyst. I do understand that a Mom may protect her only living child and maybe you are right, maybe she did.
 
MurriFlower said:
attachment.php


Ok, here's an example from before the murder from PR from ACR. I count about 11 lower case "a"s, none of which are written typewriter style.
Click to expand...

Duhhh...that is because it is written in cursive writing....not print.
 
MurriFlower said:
Just remind me again. Wasn't ST successfully sued by the Rs??
Click to expand...

That means absolutely nothing..you can sue anybody for anything....


" Due to politics, an unworkable criminal justice system in Boulder, and frustrations too numerous to detail, Steve resigned from the investigation and, unfortunately, from police work in 1998. He would later speak out against the injustices he personally witnessed in the investigation.

Now, Steve has been wrongfully sued for libel by John and Patsy Ramsey, in connection with his role in that case and for expressing his First Amendment protected opinion concerning little JonBenet's tragic death."
 
songline said:
I voted NO Patsy did not write that note.
It is my belief that we have some very good handwriting analysts and she would not have escaped them
JMHO
Click to expand...

I get you, songline. But that's just it: she did NOT escape them.
 
MurriFlower said:
Perhaps SD can enlighten us, although we all now know he isn't ST, he does seem to know a lot about him.
Click to expand...

I don't know that much about him. Tricia and ACR probably more than me.

I had it in my mind that there was a discussion here that ST did a deal of some kind with the Rs that he wouldn't talk/write etc about the case, in return for something (dropping the suit?).
Click to expand...

If such a deal was made, I don't know what the terms were.
 
MurriFlower said:
The fact that her cursive didn't contain the same a's as the RN doesn't indicate that she changed her style of writing, as ST has alleged (thus adding to his 'totallity of evidence').
Click to expand...
No one is saying her cursive writing contains the same manuscript a’s as the RN. Her manuscript writing contains the same manuscript a’s as the RN.
You are misstating what ST said; he said that that her manuscript “a” with the “hood” vanished from her post homicide writing.
“We made a surprise visit to the home of Patsy’s parents…
While I steered Don Paugh into a conversation about taxes, Gosage sought some unrehearsed writings by Patsy and struck gold. “If Patsy didn’t write the [ransom] note, why not offer some handwriting to prove it?” he asked Nedra. She defiantly thrust a piece of paper at him and declared, “Patsy wrote that just this morning.”
As we drove away, Ron examined the list of addresses and telephone numbers Patsy had written. It included the name of her friend Barbara Fernie with an important, telltale correction.
In the 376-word ransom note, the small letter “a” was pinted in manuscript style 109 times and written in cursive lowercase style only 5 times. The entry on Fernie contained just such a printed manuscript “a” as the second letter of the word Barbara, but it had been boldly written over with a black felt-tip pen and made into the cursive-style “a.”
We had noticed earlier that in prehomicide writings, Patsy consistently used the manuscript “a,” but posthomicide, it disappeared from her samples of writing.”
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page174
The fact was that she didn't change her writing style at all, but cursive was her usual writing mode.
Click to expand...
Really???
The fact that the RN writer chose printing does not mean it was usual for PR to print. I just looked at a printed RN exemplar of hers and while the "manuscript 'a's" exist, there is at least an equal number of 'a's written normally. The RN has consistent manuscript 'a's.
Click to expand...
Actually PR used 3 styles of the letter “a” in the RN.
There were 5 cursive a’s and 109 manuscript a’s. of There was a mix of two styles of the manuscript letter “a.”
2ivlp2x.jpg


Again, no one is suggesting a style preference one way or another. The choice was undoubtedly based on the circumstances of what needed to be written, a personal letter written in cursive, a grocery list in manuscript etc.
ST noted only that the manuscript “a” was being avoided in post homicide manuscript writings.
This is just another one of those 'half-truths' designed to make PR look guilty.
Click to expand...
She didn’t need any help looking guilty.
 
That's a very interesting thread, certainly better than some of the recent chimp-like poo slinging.
 
cynic said:
No one is saying her cursive writing contains the same manuscript a’s as the RN. Her manuscript writing contains the same manuscript a’s as the RN.
You are misstating what ST said; he said that that her manuscript “a” with the “hood” vanished from her post homicide writing.
“We made a surprise visit to the home of Patsy’s parents…
While I steered Don Paugh into a conversation about taxes, Gosage sought some unrehearsed writings by Patsy and struck gold. “If Patsy didn’t write the [ransom] note, why not offer some handwriting to prove it?” he asked Nedra. She defiantly thrust a piece of paper at him and declared, “Patsy wrote that just this morning.”
As we drove away, Ron examined the list of addresses and telephone numbers Patsy had written. It included the name of her friend Barbara Fernie with an important, telltale correction.
In the 376-word ransom note, the small letter “a” was pinted in manuscript style 109 times and written in cursive lowercase style only 5 times. The entry on Fernie contained just such a printed manuscript “a” as the second letter of the word Barbara, but it had been boldly written over with a black felt-tip pen and made into the cursive-style “a.”
We had noticed earlier that in prehomicide writings, Patsy consistently used the manuscript “a,” but posthomicide, it disappeared from her samples of writing.”
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page174
Really???
Actually PR used 3 styles of the letter “a” in the RN.
There were 5 cursive a’s and 109 manuscript a’s. of There was a mix of two styles of the manuscript letter “a.”
2ivlp2x.jpg


Again, no one is suggesting a style preference one way or another. The choice was undoubtedly based on the circumstances of what needed to be written, a personal letter written in cursive, a grocery list in manuscript etc.
ST noted only that the manuscript “a” was being avoided in post homicide manuscript writings.
She didn’t need any help looking guilty.
Click to expand...

I admit your post seems convincing. Superficially anyway.

When you delve in to the actuals it becomes more complicated unfortunately. Note that the ransom note cursive a that is supposed to approximate PR's cursive a isn't really cursive at all. It just happens that the manuscript a was superimposed. It overlapped. Thats why the upper right corner of the 'a' is a sharp square in the ransom note sample whereas PR's sample cursive a is rounded as a cursive should be. So really, what you are presenting in the ransom note 'a' is nothing but manuscripts and no cursives. There is nothing unusual about the tail at the lower right because many of the manuscript a's from the ransom note have a tail leading to the next letter (failing to pick up the pen). The ransom note is not cursive.

It seems you are in error, no?

I tend to go by the handwriting and linguistic experts, including one from the US Secret Service and another UC professor who have indicated in a more professional setting that PR didn't write the note.
 
Interesting doesn't equate to correct....take the Bible for example ;)
 
Count the a's and a's yourself (and this was written while she knew she was being looked at):

picture.php

​

(To view images larger in Firefox: right-click, click "view image", then hit "Control +" repeatedly.)
.
 
MurriFlower said:
Just remind me again. Wasn't ST successfully sued by the Rs??
Click to expand...

Go here:

http://www.forstevethomas.com/index.htm

Read this:


A Letter From Steve Thomas

The frivolous lawsuit filed by the Ramseys has concluded.

I am sorry for the delay in making a public statement until now, but the Ramsey announcement of a resolution in March was premature.

I am bound by the terms of the settlement not to discuss its conclusive points but I can tell you this: it was a thoughtful, deliberate decision. For the record, I was not the one who sought out a settlement in this case.

My absolute requirement for any resolution was the mandate that I would admit no wrongdoing whatsoever, nor would I personally pay a single dollar in settlement. And that is exactly what was achieved with this resolution. In fact, the book can continue to be published, advertised, quoted, and marketed. I will continue to speak on the case whenever I wish. I continue to stand resolutely by my book and the opinions I expressed in it. My beliefs have not changed.

The reality was this: I was well within my Constitutional rights to have stated my opinion regarding the events surrounding this murder. But this was a civil case. It was about money. Justice and "doing the right thing" do not always prevail in these cases, as we all know.

On the other hand, we would have enjoyed deposing and taking people in front of a jury, and discovering the truth. Unfortunately, financial constraints continued to prohibit this, as I was in no position to take on the Ramseys' wealth. In fact, I lost my house and savings during this struggle.

After almost 6 years, I can now look forward to a much brighter future. I continue to receive a warm welcome and tremendous support from police around the country. Although I miss police work, and have had invitations to re-join law enforcement, I have respectfully declined. I am taking my life in a new direction and am enjoying it with people I care about.

Again, I want to reiterate that I personally paid not one red cent, not one thin dime, not one single dollar to settle this suit. I tried to the very end to take a principled position in this tragic case, and I believe I have done so.

The future still holds hope that true justice for the murderer of an innocent girl will prevail. As I mentioned Proverbs 28:13 on Larry King Live, I still believe -- "without confession there is no forgiveness".

Please know how forever grateful I am to you for supporting me throughout this ordeal. I can tell you that there are no finer men than Daniel Petrocelli and Chuck Diamond, who supported me unequivocally. Perhaps this knowledge and explanation is some small consolation for your support and dedication in helping me with this fight.

Prior to my resignation in 1998, a man whom I admire greatly shared a famous quote with me: "It is a sin to remain silent, when it's your duty to protest."

Steve Thomas
6 August 2002
 
Ames said:
Write another shorter note? There wasn't time for that....they had staging that needed to be finished up. I am quite sure that he probably even helped her with the note...this is where I believe the "Listen Carefully" came from....he most likely was dictating to her what to write...Listen Carefully ...imo...wasn't meant to be written, it was instructions for HER. ...(snipped)...
Click to expand...

Interesting point. Not sure whether or not the "Listen Carefully" part was supposed to be in the note or not, but I do believe he dictated the note to her, at least part of it. They had a lot to do that night/early morning, and they probably divided up various tasks. Patsy probably couldn't bear to deal with JBR body so that was left to JR -- to move, stage, whatever -- after he calmed PR down when they realized she was in fact dead (or close to it). Back to the note: so he gave her the note as a job to write while he did other things. She probably couldn't think straight, couldn't get started, didn't know what to say. He threw out a few ideas and phrases and went away to do other things. He may have come and gone doing his part of the staging/clean up while she was writing - and threw out other ideas or half-heartedly listened as she read him what she wrote.

In the end, I think it was thrown together by PR w/o JR having time to read it - maybe she read it to him or read parts of it, but I don't think JR realized what it said in its entirety. This is all JMHO...
 
SunnieRN said:
Go here:

http://www.forstevethomas.com/index.htm

Read this:


A Letter From Steve Thomas

The frivolous lawsuit filed by the Ramseys has concluded.

I am sorry for the delay in making a public statement until now, but the Ramsey announcement of a resolution in March was premature.

I am bound by the terms of the settlement not to discuss its conclusive points but I can tell you this: it was a thoughtful, deliberate decision. For the record, I was not the one who sought out a settlement in this case.

My absolute requirement for any resolution was the mandate that I would admit no wrongdoing whatsoever, nor would I personally pay a single dollar in settlement. And that is exactly what was achieved with this resolution. In fact, the book can continue to be published, advertised, quoted, and marketed. I will continue to speak on the case whenever I wish. I continue to stand resolutely by my book and the opinions I expressed in it. My beliefs have not changed.

The reality was this: I was well within my Constitutional rights to have stated my opinion regarding the events surrounding this murder. But this was a civil case. It was about money. Justice and "doing the right thing" do not always prevail in these cases, as we all know.

On the other hand, we would have enjoyed deposing and taking people in front of a jury, and discovering the truth. Unfortunately, financial constraints continued to prohibit this, as I was in no position to take on the Ramseys' wealth. In fact, I lost my house and savings during this struggle.

After almost 6 years, I can now look forward to a much brighter future. I continue to receive a warm welcome and tremendous support from police around the country. Although I miss police work, and have had invitations to re-join law enforcement, I have respectfully declined. I am taking my life in a new direction and am enjoying it with people I care about.

Again, I want to reiterate that I personally paid not one red cent, not one thin dime, not one single dollar to settle this suit. I tried to the very end to take a principled position in this tragic case, and I believe I have done so.

The future still holds hope that true justice for the murderer of an innocent girl will prevail. As I mentioned Proverbs 28:13 on Larry King Live, I still believe -- "without confession there is no forgiveness".

Please know how forever grateful I am to you for supporting me throughout this ordeal. I can tell you that there are no finer men than Daniel Petrocelli and Chuck Diamond, who supported me unequivocally. Perhaps this knowledge and explanation is some small consolation for your support and dedication in helping me with this fight.

Prior to my resignation in 1998, a man whom I admire greatly shared a famous quote with me: "It is a sin to remain silent, when it's your duty to protest."

Steve Thomas
6 August 2002
Click to expand...

Hmmm??

www.dailyreportonline.com
Attorney for Parents of JonBenet Ramsey Lands Two Libel Settlements
R. Robin McDonald
Fulton County Daily Report
March 19, 2002
In a one-two punch, L. Lin Wood Jr. has settled two unrelated libel cases: one brought by the parents of JonBenét Ramsey against a police detective turned author and a second filed by AirTran Airways Inc. against the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Wood reached both settlements with attorneys at Washington, D.C.-based Dow, Lohnes & Albertson -- his legal arch-nemesis in libel litigation.
The terms of both settlements are confidential, Wood said. The Atlanta lawyer said he reached a verbal settlement last Friday on behalf of John and Patsy Ramsey WITH ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING FORMER BOULDER, COLO. POLICE DETECTIVE STEVE THOMAS. AirTran's libel suit against the Plain Dealer settled two weeks ago

Wood said both cases settled after his clients secured favorable court rulings from two federal judges in Atlanta.
ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THOMAS, co-author Don Davis and their publisher, St. Martin's Press, offered to settle with the Ramseys the same day that U.S. District Judge Willis B. Hunt Jr. decided the libel case could be tried in Georgia, said Wood. Ramsey v. Thomas, No.1:01-cv-801 (N.D. Ga. March 17, 2002). Thomas and Davis wrote "JonBenét: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation."
Sean R. Smith, an attorney at Dow, Lohnes& Albertson, which defended Davis and St. Martin's, declined to comment on the case. The firm is also local counsel for Los Angeles attorney Daniel M. Petrocelli, who represented Thomas. Petrocelli was not available for comment.
David Kaye, senior vice president for legal affairs at St. Martin's in New York, neither would confirm nor would deny that a settlement agreement has been reached.
The Ramseys sued Thomas last year, claiming that his book on the investigation of their 6-year-old daughter's 1996 murder laid the blame for the slaying squarely on Patsy Ramsey. The suit accused Thomas of libel and slander and sought $80 million in damages. As a Boulder, Colo., police detective, Thomas was assigned to investigate JonBenét's death. In 2000, a grand jury declined to indict the Ramseys for their daughter's slaying. The Ramseys moved to the Atlanta area in 1997.
Wood said Hunt's order means that, "If you write the book, baby, you distribute it in Georgia, you make money on it in Georgia, and the plaintiff lives in Georgia, you can be sued in Georgia."
Wood said that trying the case in Georgia "is inherently more fair."
"Think about how difficult it would be for most individuals to have to go to Colorado or New York to pursue a libel case even though the damage occurs to them where they reside," he said.
And, in the Ramseys' case, the couple "clearly is going to be treated more fairly in Georgia where they have not suffered the negative publicity that they suffered in Colorado."
Thomas' attorneys had argued that the suit could not be tried in Georgia but, rather, must be tried in Colorado where JonBenét was killed and where the majority of the book was written.
Hunt disagreed. "First, both Mr. Thomas and Mr. Davis traveled to Georgia, though Mr. Thomas more often than Mr. Davis, to do research on the Ramseys and to visit certain locations located in Atlanta in preparation for the book, including the home of the Ramseys and the grave of JonBenét Ramsey," Hunt wrote.
"Second, the book has been heavily marketed and sold in Atlanta, Georgia, a likely high sales area due to the fact that the Ramseys re-located here from Boulder, Colorado.... Mr. Davis and Mr. Thomas have not denied the fact that they derive substantial profits from the sales of the books, including those sales performed in Georgia. At the time the book was published and released for sale, Mr. Thomas and Mr. Davis were accusing Georgia residents of a crime, thereby affecting their reputation in their home community of Atlanta, Georgia....Almost all of the harm, or the 'effects' resulting from the book would take place wherever the Ramseys lived at the time the book was published, marketed and sold."
Wood said the settlement with Thomas "totally vindicates" the Ramseys. However, he noted that Thomas "doesn't have a whole lot of money."
He added, "The dollar amount is irrelevant to the Ramseys. They sued this case as a matter of principle." Like most settlements, the defendants made no admissions. But, Wood insisted, "The result speaks for itself. How many people settle a libel case?"


Ahhhhh!!
 
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