Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

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Have they ruled out pool water? Maybe Caylee drowned, KC freaked out and threw her in the trunk. I don't know...just throwing it out there.

(Apparently I'm a little late to the punch! Sorry for suggesting the same idea as others!)
 
Just a thought... I don't have any experience with dead bodies :sick: , but it seems like it would be hard to put a dead (already) body into a fetal position. Why would you do that anyway? My guess would be that Caylee died in the fetal position if that is what the outline indicates. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

What do y'all think? Could you and would you put a dead body in the fetal position?

I would think it'd be difficult. I guess it depends on how long the person had been dead. I certainly don't think it could be done if rigor had already set in....or it would be REALLY difficult rather.
 
I believe that I see the area. It is oriented on the left side of the trunk, half way on the spare tire cover and halfway on the carpet to the left. It is a light rust color and it looks to me that the head was pointing toward the back seat and the lower body pointing to the end of the car, body laying on its left side. The mark straddles both the carpet to the left of the tire well and the covering of the tire well, as well as the slope down into the tire well. As if the liquid had run down the slope. I can see where the knees were up, into the fetal position.

Aqua

Aqua, what picture are you referencing?
 
l_b5f709b1510dc55779166f1573dae625.jpg


l_d1cfdd4af6e7ac0644ac8c9149811548.jpg


l_101332a3e6f97355a510f05ccfd0f70b.jpg


Sorry...I don't see it.

momtective, can you please share the source and date of these pictures? Are they the ones that are supposed to show the stain/outline/impression? TIA
 
Did yawl hear what was said by the forensic doc on NG?
 
what???? my phone rang.
tia

Okay... please excuse my rudimentary explanation but for more clarity, please see the transcripts.

(Bear with me... ugh.) So, the doctor explained how the outline could occur. I guess if the body sits for a while in that state, the fluids, etc., would seep and create molds and fungus, etc., and not necessary HAVE DNA in it but would be a telltale sign that, in fact, a body was there.
 
OK, pp. 50-55 of this doc explains that the FBI did not obtain any DNA typing results for any of the trunk liner samples. I believe it is a big overstatement for ClickOrlando to say that the FBI determined that the stain did not contain any bodily fluids. You can't always get DNA results from an item that contains DNA (especially if it gets "cleaned" first....).

http://www.clickorlando.com/download...9/21146801.pdf


Someone else posted a link to this document in which the FBI explains BEFORE it did this testing (p. 73) that it would "attempt to recover any possible DNA" but it was "highly unlikely to recover a type." Which says to me that they believed recovery of DNA from this particular item would be very difficult REGARDLESS of whether the stain was composed of bodily fluids or not. And it looks like they were right.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFile...-8858-8939.pdf
 
Okay... please excuse my rudimentary explanation but for more clarity, please see the transcripts.

(Bear with me... ugh.) So, the doctor explained how the outline could occur. I guess if the body sits for a while in that state, the fluids, etc., would seep and create molds and fungus, etc., and not necessary HAVE DNA in it but would be a telltale sign that, in fact, a body was there.

Thank you for responding. This poor child never had a chance. No wonder the dp is on the table.
 
I did an invert image thinking maybe something would come up... but I didnt see anything
 
I did an invert image thinking maybe something would come up...

Is this the pic that was posted earlier in this thread? I think we need to stop posting those--I am 99.9% certain that this was some member's Sunfire (or a friend of a member) and she took pictures and posted them here so we could stop speculating about the size of the trunk, etc.

So far, the only photo of the ACTUAL trunk that I know of is the terrible black & white one in the report that was released today.
 
Is this the pic that was posted earlier in this thread? I think we need to stop posting those--I am 99.9% certain that this was some member's Sunfire (or a friend of a member) and she took pictures and posted them here so we could stop speculating about the size of the trunk, etc.

So far, the only photo of the ACTUAL trunk that I know of is the terrible black & white one in the report that was released today.

Thanks. That's what I was afraid of ~ I think it may have inadvertently misled some of us.
 
A member posted a picture of their Sunfire last year during a debate about how small the wheel well was. Just fyi, that set of pics looked like those photos and not the crime scene ones.
 
Thank you for responding. This poor child never had a chance. No wonder the dp is on the table.


and I am so very glad that the dp is on the table (like the lethal injection table I hope). Especially after reading the news headlines and finding out this new info. It just brings all the anger towards KC out on the table again too.
 
For those wondering if the stain could be because it dripped off Caylee after she drowned in the pool, you need to check on the effect of Luminal on areas treated with Chlorine bleach. IIRC areas that were treated with bleach will show up very brightly under Luminal. And I read here that the stain only glowed a little bit. So that might rule out the pool theory.
 
Then what is causing the smell if there is no decomp fluid?? So confused......

Rotten food. Its a simple as that. Rotten food is a decomposing body. I need a link to a report that says the smell comes from a decomposing human body.

I hear consistent with.
I hear decomposing body, but not decomposing human body.
I need to hear something official that says the smell came from a decomposing human body.
 
So what could cause something like this? I mean, short of being soaking wet (from water, or some other substance), it seems impossible to me that the outline of a body would materialize, since it's been noted that it was not caused by any body fluids....unless...the carpet of the car had recently been treated with something.

This is the same fbi lab tech that imagined an image on the duct tape.

This is the same fbi lab tech that is imagining an image of a child in a stain.

This is the same fbi lab tech that got her dna on the duct tape and contaminating the evidence.

Is she just out of school or what?

If I am wrong please correct me.
 
Forming a theory - Baquacil is proprietary, and I'm not sure if this patent is saying it contains copper. The date of the patent application I linked is dated 1996. IIRC, the A's used Baquacil in their pool, instead of chlorine. Could this explain the luminol glow?


Snipped from Wiki:
Drawbacks
Luminol has some drawbacks that may limit its use in a crime scene investigation:

Luminol chemiluminescence can also be triggered by copper or copper-containing alloys, horseradish, and certain bleaches[citation needed]; and, as a result, if a crime scene is thoroughly cleaned with a bleach solution[specify], residual bleach will cause the entire crime scene to produce the typical blue glow, effectively camouflaging any organic evidence, such as blood.
Luminol will also detect the small amounts of blood present in urine and it can be distorted if animal blood is present in the room that is being tested.
Luminol reacts with fecal matter, causing the same glow as if it were blood.
Luminol's presence may prevent other tests from being performed on a piece of evidence. However, it has been shown that DNA can be successfully extracted from samples treated with luminol reagent.[4] [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol[/ame]


Snipped from freepatentsonline:
The invention discloses a composition and method for the enhancement of polyguanide based water sanitizing systems and for conversion of such systems to alternative water sanitizing systems if desired. The method includes the addition of an enhancing or conversion agent selected from the group consisting of a halogen salt, a Bromohydantoin and a chlorobromohydantoin in an amount to provide a concentration of approximately from 1 to 50 parts per million. Sodium borate and/or polyphosphate may also be added to the system to improve the effectiveness of the enhancing agent. The system may be converted to an alternative water sanitizing system by the addition of a sanitizing agent selected from the group consisting of chlorine, copper, silver, quaternary ammonium compounds, and polyquaternary ammonium compounds, which may be released into the water at a rate of 0.01 to 1 ounces per hour per 10,000 gallons of water for a period until conversion is complete.

Edit to add: copper is a known anti-bacterial
Edit to to add: link to freepatentonline http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5527506.html

sorry about that, I guess its getting late
 
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