Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #3

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Here's the thing...

The LE people in Sumter READ WS and they have been very tolerant of sleuthers contacting them. Since you want to slam them, they are going to be less receptive to us offering our help and that's not what WS is supposedly about.

So, if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, go ahead. I will not be part of it. We need their help, they only MIGHT need ours.
 
shadetreePI said:
Here's the thing...

The LE people in Sumter READ WS and they have been very tolerant of sleuthers contacting them.
Since you want to slam them, they are going to be less receptive to us offering our help and that's not what WS is supposedly about.

So, if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, go ahead. I will not be part of it.
We need their help, they only MIGHT need ours.....
Click to expand...

Shade Tree...
After 3 decades of not solving this case, Le needs all the help WE can give them and being more receptive..not less.

I haven't seen anyone criticizing anyone on the present LE force today.

The internet has some very smart people interested in discussing theories on Who and How this case was mishandled 32 years ago.
This should be welcomed, so it will never happen again.

If there's nothing to hide, and none of the guys are still on the force, why would the present Le care what we discuss?.

Many kind hearted people are especially interested in finding the names and families of these 2 beautiful,
young people who was murdered in cold blood and left by the road like 'road-kill"..

Do you have a theory, rumor or opinion about this case?
 
What are the public access laws for South Carolina records pertaining to very old murder cases....if any ???

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)

Like all federal agencies, the Department of Justice (DOJ) generally is required under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to disclose records requested in writing by any person. However, agencies may withhold information pursuant to nine exemptions and three exclusions contained in the statute.

The FOIA applies only to federal agencies and does not create a right of access to records held by Congress, the courts, or by state or local government agencies.

Each state has its own public access laws that should be consulted for access to state and local records....
 
From what I understand, since this is still an OPEN INVESTIGATION, the case records are not open to the general public for inspection.

Also, to echo the sentiments of a previous poster, the energy should be focused (IMO) on this case, not on second guessing public officials. Also, many of the folks that were working on this case in 1976 are still working on it. Mrs. Moore, the County Coroner, is one of them. Regardless, I think it is inappropriate to speculate and place blame on the investigators. Let's focus on finding the identities of this couple!
 
Everyone has different opinions on what LE did or didn't do to solve this back then. I agree, we should start concentrating on trying to ID these two poor kids again, although I'm starting to believe that it is next to impossible. I just can't believe with the press this case has received in the recent months that there haven't been any viable leads. :(
 
Since you want to slam them

I'm still unsure of how I slammed anyone. Nothing I said was insulting or offensive.


You have yet to suggest your theories.



Also, to echo the sentiments of a previous poster, the energy should be focused (IMO) on this case, not on second guessing public officials.

I was only answering a question in regards to what's previously been discussed in the 16+ pages of this thread before I was attacked. Personally I've always felt that crime investigation holds few clues to who the couple is. However, that's no reason to ignore a question for summarization of previously discussed material.

While I don't appreciate how I've been talked to, I can understand and appreciate why someone would feel strongly about this. In no way was my post meant to offend the Sumter PD or anyone, for that matter.

I've lived here, in South Carolina, all of my life. LE are my friends, relatives, neighbors, classmates, patients, etc. I hate that it's true and I'd never point fingers. But I don't ignore it either.
 
MaryBeth said:
I agree, we should start concentrating on trying to ID these two poor kids again, although I'm starting to believe that it is next to impossible. I just can't believe with the press this case has received in the recent months that there haven't been any viable leads. :(
Click to expand...



No no no, we can do it.

I'm surprised too, that there aren't many leads, but I think we've got a big lead with the Canada thing. And those who are making posts in french - Hopefully we'll get something with that.

I've been curious whether Jacques had any kind of an accent. I believe the guy at the campground said he didn't recall. Can anyone recall if I'm right? A french accent this far south is more on the rare side (besides LA, of course).
 
I believe they had some kind of a vehicle some place. I wonder if anybody ever checked for cars that had been towed in days or weeks later. I don't remember reading that Jane Doe had a purse on her That's very strange. I wonder if they could have met Henry's son at a bar and he killed them. He did accidentally run over someone and then later killed himself. Maybe it wasn't an accident??
 
I was reading something on the Zodiac, and it was stated that he began killing couples. I am not too familar with him, as in when he operated or where.

I am thinking that these unidentified person's family is no longer alive or they never bothered concerning themselves as to what happened to their children.
 
Teresa Larson said:
I believe they had some kind of a vehicle some place.

I wonder if anybody ever checked for cars that had been towed in days or weeks later.

I don't remember reading that Jane Doe had a purse on her That's very strange.

I wonder if they could have met Henry's son at a bar and he killed them.

He did accidentally run over someone and then later killed himself. Maybe it wasn't an accident??....
Click to expand...

Very good points! Killed himself, why, how old was he????

I believe they had a vehicle also.

question is; where was it left or who took it, towed it or sold it for $$$ or used it for parts?

Maybe the male was playing pool or trying to sell the ring again and was targeted by the killer.

The female's shoes, would not hold up to hiking or walking any distance..with wedge heels the shoes would have her feet/toes hurting in no time..these shoes were more for wearing inside, not hiking.

NO backpacks, sleeping bags, no change of cloths, no female personal items, combs, toothbrushes, money, no food, no handbag, nothing. Yet, they were very clean.....It's my opinion these things were left somewhere, possibly in their vehicle or the killers.

I also think the 'noise' of the vehicle driving down that dirt road the night of the murders was a clue...
The vehicle was driving very fast and made enough noise to wake a person living near by. This leads me to suspect it was an older vehicle, possibly a van..or truck..Could this vehicle have had loud mufflers or a hole in the muffler pipe causing enough noise to wake a neighbor?..:detective:
 
Since you guys are discussing Locklair Road I thought I’d share some thoughts of my own with you.

I am attaching a link to a video I took back in June of Locklair Road. Let me warn you in advance, it’s the longest 4:14 minutes you’ll ever endure. I’d also suggest turning the sound off or else you’ll be subjected to my cheesy country music background. I’m a pitiful videographer, but at the time I was filming this for myself and not thinking about showing it to anyone else. That being said, I’d like to share some things with you before you view this clip.

First, you will see a paved road. This is St. John’s Church Road and is the easiest and most direct route from the interstate to Locklair Road. St. John’s is not a very well maintained road. The grass along the side of it was hip high. There are no dwellings on the first half of St. Johns (up to and just past Locklair Road). There may have been back in the 70’s, but I somewhat doubt it. The only house I saw on that road was burnt out, and looked like a newer constructed house, but then I could be wrong about that.

From St. Johns you turn right onto Locklair. It is a fairly decent dirt road but I want you to remember this: back in ’76 this was a “two rut” road. This leads me to one of my questions. I know that the truck driver that found our Does was cleared. However, a two rut road seems a highly unlikely place to park a big rig to “sleep”. You can’t turn a big truck around on that road today; it would have been much harder to do in 1976.

Another question I have is how did the killer(s?) know that this road didn’t just lead to someone’s house? They were either just unbelievably lucky, or they were locals.

As you watch this video, start paying attention to the right hand side of the road when you are about -1:37 minutes into it. You will start to see traffic traveling down the interstate. There will be a billboard on the right hand side, on Locklair Road. There is only a glimpse of it, and only for a second. See the patch of woods ahead? This is where our Does were found. Verna Moore told me that in some of the crime scene photos you can see the billboard. Obviously not in any photos we have access to, unless I’m wrong. But I haven’t seen any with the billboard in the background.

As for houses on Locklair Road, there aren’t any. And I saw no evidence that there ever have been any. Near the end of the clip I will scan across the field to the left. Waaay back there are some mobile homes. They might be as much as a mile away from Locklair, across open fields. I’m not questioning that someone heard unusual sounds. Having spent my whole life living in the country I know how well sound travels. I find it very believable that someone could get used to the interstate sounds (if there were any that night – at that very moment) and not even hear them, yet pick out another sound that was “unusual”.

As for the vehicle the killer(s) were driving, LE did get tire impressions that led them to believe it was a van. This fits nicely into what I have imagined the whole time: Our two Does traveling around in a funky VW bus. But then, that’s my imagination, not necessarily what they were driving. LE said a VAN, period.

I’m sorry I blew my top yesterday. It’s not like me to lose it that way. I’m not sorry for what I said, I just shouldn’t have lost it like I did. See, I have been extremely fortunate to get to work with LE on THIS case and I know how much they care about it. For me, it is an obsession that is on my mind every single day. Can you imagine spending 32 years like that? Imagine the frustration… And we are so fortunate today to have Internet access. This alone has opened doors that were never even available back then.

I hope that this video clip helps spark some new ideas. It has always been about our Does, and getting them back home.
Okay, here’s the clip:

http://video.yahoo.com/search/?p=locklair+road
 
Debbie Miller said:
I was reading something on the Zodiac, and it was stated that he began killing couples. I am not too familar with him, as in when he operated or where.

I am thinking that these unidentified person's family is no longer alive or they never bothered concerning themselves as to what happened to their children.
Click to expand...

I'm not very familiar with the Zodiac murders either, but from what I recall they were mostly west coast, No. Cal. in the 60's. That doesn't dismiss it, however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_Killer
 
Teresa Larson said:
I believe they had some kind of a vehicle some place. I wonder if anybody ever checked for cars that had been towed in days or weeks later. I don't remember reading that Jane Doe had a purse on her That's very strange. I wonder if they could have met Henry's son at a bar and he killed them. He did accidentally run over someone and then later killed himself. Maybe it wasn't an accident??
Click to expand...

I don't ever remember reading that Lonnie Henry or his son killed themselves. Maybe I missed that somewhere along the line. Lonnie Sr. was born July 23, 1918 and died in May 1982. I have searched online and have not been able to find an obit on him. Someone else mentioned on this thread, I think it was shadowangel, that he had an obit for either Lonnie Sr. or Jr. but I don't think he can find it. But I'm not sure if Lonnie Jr. is alive or dead. I can't find an obit online for him either. Lonnie Sr. accidentally ran over a co-worker and another son of his drowned in the Pee Dee River. I believe all that happened around the time of the murders. That info is posted below in the Sole Supect article.

I do believe Lonnie Sr. knew more than what he told LE and WAS protecting someone, possibly Lonnie Jr.

Thanks, Shadetree PI for posting the video. It's very interesting and eerie to see the spot where they were found.

Sole suspect
About four months after the murders, police in the Darlington County town of Latta arrested Lonnie George Henry for drunk driving. Under the seat of his car they found a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson with the serial number filed off.
Police sent the gun to the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division's forensic lab for tests and later concluded that Henry's revolver had killed the mystery couple. Bullets taken from the bodies matched with the weapon.
When officers asked Henry point blank if he was the killer, his polygraph said he was telling the truth. No, he hadn't pulled the trigger. But several other lie detector tests implied he was lying about something, at least, maybe covering up for somebody. Investigators wondered if someone had stolen his gun and whether a relative or friend of Henry's had killed the couple in Sumter.
But case files say Henry did lie about how he'd obtained the gun, first telling officers that he'd bought it from a truck driver. Days after the purchase, Henry told investigators, he discovered the serial number had been filed off. By then, it was too late to return the item for a refund.
SLED recovered the serial number and investigators tracked the gun from its manufacturer to Henry's brother, who said he gave it to Henry as a Christmas present four or five years earlier.
The gun had been bought, stolen and resold several times before falling into the hands of Henry's brother. But he said the serial number was still there on Christmas Eve.
When confronted with the new information, Henry confessed to filing the serial numbers off himself.
It remains unclear why Henry lied if he was innocent. And it also remains unclear if he really was. Case files say Henry was a recovering alcoholic and had also gotten in trouble with the law for a slew of minor offenses.
At the time, his son had recently drowned in the Pee Dee River. He'd also accidentally killed one of his co-workers, by backing a dump truck over him.
Investigative psychologists even wondered if he'd killed the Sumter couple and simply couldn't remember doing it.
 
youshouldveknown said:
Not a definitive one.

Some say they were running drugs, which we have no proof for. Some say it was a robbery. I'm pretty sure there was no money found on the couple, but their jewelry was left behind. Now, to me, if I were going to kill someone for their money, I wouldn't take their jewelry to pawn it. That could be one more possible link to me. But that's just the way I see it.

The couple had bought ice cream with fruit (or possibly just fruit - per the contents in their stomach) beforehand, so we know they had come cash. It could be possible that they were seen at the ice cream stand with a billfold of cash. Perhaps even offered a ride by the killer with intentions of getting that money.

But we also know that JD was trying to sell his ring for travel money, so they very well could have been low. Now, low could be described as $20 to $100+ depending on how you think about it.

Regardless, these are the two theories that have been floating about. I tend to believe robbery over drugs just because there's no evidence of drugs.

No question is stupid ;)

P.S. Anyone is free to correct me. It's been a long case.
Click to expand...


I think your theory is brilliant! That sounds extremely plausible based on all the info that was released. This case breaks my heart and I would love to see these kids named and brought home. You all at WS are such and inspiration to me.
 
youshouldveknown said:
Blackwatch, for me, I just don't know enough about LH to make a firm connection between the two.

I believe it's been said that his son was into drugs - one way or another - but I can't remember where I've read that or if it was just speculation. I'll have to check again.

It definitely is a possibility that LH was covering for his son. But like I've said previously, I just don't see a lot of evidence for drug running, other than they travelled, and that's not really indicative.

What are your theories?...
Click to expand...

Youshould...I am digging for details so I can put forth an intelligent theory.

The couple could possibly have had a large baggie of Pot for their private use. They all were possibly smoking a joint driving down the road with the killer, then the killer kills them and takes the pot and their money.

Does anyone know Lonnie Jr.'s age in 1976?? Where he worked, went to school or lived, and vehicles they owned?

IF he was involved in the murders and Henry was covering for him,
he had to be 16 yrs. and could possibly been as old as 40 yrs.. if Mr. Henry was 58 yrs. old at that time..

That would make Lonnie Jr. somewhere between 48 yrs and 72 yrs give or take a few months, as of 2008....
Has LE questioned Lonnie about what he knows of the case in the last few years? He just may know the answer to most of our questions..
A people search on the computer finds many people.
 
Thanks Nyla.

Letsthink, keep it up! That's a good theory!

I remember reading Pee Wee Gaskins' autobiography in high school and thought that perhaps this couple were his victims, but he was in jail before 1976.

My psychology teacher in high school used to tell us stories about seeing him driving around in his hearse and her mother would say 'That's Pee Wee, he's weird.'

Anyway, the autobiography was an interesting read.

Here's some information on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pee_wee_gaskins
 
After watching this video I am now wondering how the truck driver ended up on that road and why? I do think it's possible he could have killed them. At first I thought well if he did do it he wouldn't have called it in but yes he would have because if somebody did see his truck around there they would be questioning him. However if he comes forward and gives an excuse as to why he was in the area etc nobody would think much of it later. My question now is this....Did the LE ever check the inside of the truck out? Do they have the drivers name and the company that owned the truck? I wonder if the driver picked them up at the truck stop, robbed them and then killed them and dumped their bodies.
 
It was a good, clear video. thanks

I rule OUT the truck driver only because he did not have access to the murder weapon ...and the tire marks was from a Van....2 major clues.

The smoking gun is: Lonnie Henry Sr. had the murder weapon 4 years BEFORE the murders and 4 months After the murders.

It doesn't take a 'rocket scientist' to know WHO that points the finger at.

There's no doubt in my mind, Lonnie Henry Sr. died knowing Who shot that couple, and why, and IF LE keeps stalling, Lonnie Jr., will do the same.....

Thus the good ole boys can retire, keeping their 'good' names and the truth/details of this case will never be known...forever buried in the cold case files....jmo
 
Teresa Larson said:
After watching this video I am now wondering how the truck driver ended up on that road and why? I do think it's possible he could have killed them. At first I thought well if he did do it he wouldn't have called it in but yes he would have because if somebody did see his truck around there they would be questioning him. However if he comes forward and gives an excuse as to why he was in the area etc nobody would think much of it later. My question now is this....Did the LE ever check the inside of the truck out? Do they have the drivers name and the company that owned the truck? I wonder if the driver picked them up at the truck stop, robbed them and then killed them and dumped their bodies.
Click to expand...

Thank you Teresa. I was hoping that the video and some of the other things I shared would spark some new thoughts and theories.:clap:
 
Teresa Larson said:
After watching this video I am now wondering how the truck driver ended up on that road and why? I do think it's possible he could have killed them. At first I thought well if he did do it he wouldn't have called it in but yes he would have because if somebody did see his truck around there they would be questioning him. However if he comes forward and gives an excuse as to why he was in the area etc nobody would think much of it later. My question now is this....Did the LE ever check the inside of the truck out? Do they have the drivers name and the company that owned the truck? I wonder if the driver picked them up at the truck stop, robbed them and then killed them and dumped their bodies....
Click to expand...

Teresa L...How did the truck driver get the pistol from Mr. Henry, kill the young couple and then, give it back to Henry??

WHY would Returning the pistol cause Mr. Henry to scratch the serial numbers Off and put the pistol under his vehicle seat...a felony...Hmmmm!


I can think of several reasons the truck driver could have been traveling that road...do these theories make sense to anyone?

1. The truck driver could have been a married man and had a "sweetie" somewhere in that area..
2. Remember it was the 1970's, maybe he had pot plants, planted out there and he checked on them at night.....
3. Spotlighting a deer!
 
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