Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4

JaneInOz said:

Does Anyone think this looks Like Jock Doe

This man has been missing since 1975 from Canada
He has Brown Eyes
He was 27

Some of the other things are a *little* different

But the face those eyebrows in particular - what do you think ?

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I'm sorry, but I don't think this is Jock Doe. Of course, I could be wrong, but I just don't see it.

TaraONeill said:

I don't think the moles should be the deciding factor, though. Like I said before, I think people are making too much of them. In some of the pictures they're barely noticeable, and in others it seems like they've darkened them. Like this for example. If you look at the picture on the right, they're not that noticeable (and even seem like they could be dirt or something, as there are several other spots on her face that look the same), but in the picture on the left, it's obvious that they've been darkened. It's possible that if they were as faint/not obvious as in the picture on the right, they could've been covered up with makeup. So, there's the possibility that if we saw a pic of her when she was alive we wouldn't even know she had the moles. Also, if she usually wore makeup to cover them, it's possible her family wouldn't even have thought to mention them when giving a description of her. Of course she didn't have makeup covering them when she died, but like the shaving legs thing, she was on vacation/camping...we don't know what her usual routine was like.

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The emphasis on the Jane Doe's facial moles has been stressed by the former coroner, Mrs Moore, who has been working on this case for years. She has used this characteristic to rule out potential matches and that is why I felt it noteworthy to mention it here.

Cambria said:

It is Locklair Road. ShadeTreePI lives in the area and went down Locklair Road and posted photographs of the road sign on the Mystery Couple thread, but I think the pics are in thread #2 somewhere. - just found it...pic is in thread 2, post 210, page 9 - it's blurry but you can make out Locklair.

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I checked that post out, and yes, I see it is spelled Locklair. Funny, google maps will only pull it up as Locklear Rd. Actually it doesn't matter because Locklear and Locklair have both been spellings in the past for Lumbee Indians named Locklear.

That road may have been named for a James Locklair/Locklear who moved down to Sumter Co. from Robeson & was listed on the 1850 census for Sumter Co.

JaneinOz, I ran across that guy before too, a couple of weeks ago. I discounted him because of the height difference & also the slant of his eyebrows. However, they are bushy and the hair & hairline looks good, nose looks good.

What I can't get to match up are the lines through the eyes, base of nose, and center of lips. Also, Arcand's ears are lower set than our John Doe's. And yet, something tells me you should go for it, and check it out. The lips, nose, hair are dead ringers.

rmf said:

The emphasis on the Jane Doe's facial moles has been stressed by the former coroner, Mrs Moore, who has been working on this case for years. She has used this characteristic to rule out potential matches and that is why I felt it noteworthy to mention it here.

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Ah, ok. I didn't realize that.

colette said:

I noticed Edward Joseph ARCAND was missing many teeth and had some temporary fillings, where as Jock Doe had expensive dental work, with crowns, ect. Arcand also has a hernia scar....Jock had an appendectomy and two shoulder scars.

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Good point about the teeth. I thought Arcand was a good possibility. After searching for these two for so long, that should have been the first thing I picked up on, since it is well documented what good condition Jock's teeth were in, but I totally missed it. Thanks!

I don't think this is our John either. Besides the missing teeth and the height, This guy has black hair. Our John has brown hair.

On another matter, I thought you guys might like to see this:

Type in these two addresses in Google Maps (one at a time, of course) then click on "street view". It'll give you a view of Locklair Road, both ends of it and you can virtually travel around that area to see what I saw when I visited. You can't access Locklair Road on this view, but you can see how desolate this area is. Judging by the way things look (since I've been there at different times of the year) and by the other photos of my own home address, these photos are about 2 years old and taken in the winter. However, not much has changed in this area. Note the spelling of Locklair Road. I promise - and I'll get a good photo next time I go, the way I'm spelling it is the way it is written on the sign. Weird that it is listed differently though...

2964 Old St John Church Road Lynchburg SC

10640 Douglas Swamp Road Lynchburg SC

Hope this gives you guys a better feel for this area.
Oh, FYI, the Does were found at the Douglas Swamp end of Locklair Rd.

shadetreePI said:

I don't think this is our John either. Besides the missing teeth and the height, This guy has black hair. Our John has brown hair.

On another matter, I thought you guys might like to see this:

Type in these two addresses in Google Maps (one at a time, of course) then click on "street view". It'll give you a view of Locklair Road, both ends of it and you can virtually travel around that area to see what I saw when I visited. You can't access Locklair Road on this view, but you can see how desolate this area is. Judging by the way things look (since I've been there at different times of the year) and by the other photos of my own home address, these photos are about 2 years old and taken in the winter. However, not much has changed in this area. Note the spelling of Locklair Road. I promise - and I'll get a good photo next time I go, the way I'm spelling it is the way it is written on the sign. Weird that it is listed differently though...

2964 Old St John Church Road Lynchburg SC

10640 Douglas Swamp Road Lynchburg SC

Hope this gives you guys a better feel for this area.
Oh, FYI, the Does were found at the Douglas Swamp end of Locklair Rd.

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Shadetree, the map will only give me a satellite view, no street view.

I wouldn't worry about the spelling on Locklair, it's still just a form of Locklear.

Here's something I found, and although it doesn't directly relate to this case, it still may be of some interest here.

Robeson County, NC marriage records from 1799-1868

http://www.mountainpress.com/books/nc/details/fi-1037w.html

Here are all the different spellings of Locklear contained within.

LOCKELEAR LOCKLAER LOCKLAIR LOCKLEAR** LOCKLEER LOCKLEIAR LOCKLIAR LOCKLIER

How this happens is that many people in the US were illiterate back then, and didn't have an idea how to spell their last name so it was up to the census taker to determine the spelling or the bank or whatever entity with which they had business. Various spellings may have also served to distinguish 4 Locklear guys named John living in the same county. I'm just using that as an example.

Today, those with the spelling Locklair, may pronounce it as it sounds, different pronounciation for different spellings. However, those who are proud of their Lumbee heritage may pronounce it Locklear no matter the spelling. Still others may have abandoned their spelling variation in favor of the spelling Locklear. Bet you didn't want a genealogy lesson.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3769dmon.html

Has anyone posted this profile before? Subject has been missing since March 1976. Last seen in France, but he is originally from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Brown hair, brown eyes, slender build (128 lbs) and 5'7. Was 17 years old at time of disappearance.

Okay, I did some research on Bulova Accutron watches and here's what I found out:

Serial numbers that began with a letter were made in the USA (ex. A12345). So, the watch that "Jock" was wearing had a serial number of H918803 which means it was made in the USA. Each watch had a serial number and underneath a 2-digit age marker made up of one letter and one number. Here are some examples:

A9 = 1949 (this was the first dating done)
L0-L9 - 1950's, L0 = 1950, L1 = 1951..... L9 = 1959
M0-M9 - 1960's, M0 = 1960, M1 = 1961....etc... toM6 = 1966, etc.
N0-N9 - 1970's. N3 = 1973, etc.

According to the coroner's report, this watch was made in 1968 so I'm assuming the 2-digit age marker was M8 on the watch. Can anyone verify this?

Also, production of this type of watch stopped in 1977. And this information comes from Bulova's website: "Starting in 1948 Bulova began marking the back of watch cases with the year of the watch. To determine the age of a watch made prior to 1948, you would need to send it to Bulova service, as the only year indication for these watches is inside the casing. For watches from 1948 and 1949 the actual year is printed. After that, a letter denoting the decade followed by the digit of the year is marked. This practice began in the '50s, with the letter L. M signified the '60s, N the '70s, P the '80s, T the '90s and A the '00s (2000). So, for example, if P9 is on the case back, the watch was manufactured in 1989. The only way to know the value of a watch, unfortunately, is to have it appraised by a professional jewelry appraiser."

elliottness said:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3769dmon.html

Has anyone posted this profile before? Subject has been missing since March 1976. Last seen in France, but he is originally from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Brown hair, brown eyes, slender build (128 lbs) and 5'7. Was 17 years old at time of disappearance.

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Not sure if this is coincidental or not, but check out this link:
http://www.finddoctors.org/dr-daniel-cowan.html

This doctor, Daniel Francis Cowan, graduated from McGill University in Montreal, Quebec in 1960. Speciality is pathology and he currently resides in Galveston, Texas.

elliottness said:

Okay, I did some research on Bulova Accutron watches and here's what I found out:

Serial numbers that began with a letter were made in the USA (ex. A12345). So, the watch that "Jock" was wearing had a serial number of H918803 which means it was made in the USA. Each watch had a serial number and underneath a 2-digit age marker made up of one letter and one number. Here are some examples:

A9 = 1949 (this was the first dating done)
L0-L9 - 1950's, L0 = 1950, L1 = 1951..... L9 = 1959
M0-M9 - 1960's, M0 = 1960, M1 = 1961....etc... toM6 = 1966, etc.
N0-N9 - 1970's. N3 = 1973, etc.

According to the coroner's report, this watch was made in 1968 so I'm assuming the 2-digit age marker was M8 on the watch. Can anyone verify this?

Also, production of this type of watch stopped in 1977. And this information comes from Bulova's website: "Starting in 1948 Bulova began marking the back of watch cases with the year of the watch. To determine the age of a watch made prior to 1948, you would need to send it to Bulova service, as the only year indication for these watches is inside the casing. For watches from 1948 and 1949 the actual year is printed. After that, a letter denoting the decade followed by the digit of the year is marked. This practice began in the '50s, with the letter L. M signified the '60s, N the '70s, P the '80s, T the '90s and A the '00s (2000). So, for example, if P9 is on the case back, the watch was manufactured in 1989. The only way to know the value of a watch, unfortunately, is to have it appraised by a professional jewelry appraiser."

Click to expand...

I also did some research on the watch earlier in the week. I found the same info about the Bulova watch serial #s and I'm confused, as I was when I looked this up a couple years ago too. I also found that the letter M was used to signify the 1960s. So how could the serial number on his watch start with an H? Shouldn't it be M918803? They started with As in the 1940s and skipped the letters B through K, using the letter L to signify watches made in the 1950s. And the M9 watch was made in 1969. Here is a link from one of the websites I found the info on:

http://www.thewatchguy.com/pages/BulovaSerial.html

I just don't understand how the serial # on Jock's watch could start with an H if they didn't use the letter H. Unless the watch was made in another country and overseas they used letters between B and K? I'm sorry if this was explained before and I missed it or forgot it. The only explanation I can think of is that possibly the watch was made and purchased overseas and had a different serial # than those made in the USA?

Cambria said:

I also did some research on the watch earlier in the week. I found the same info about the Bulova watch serial #s and I'm confused, as I was when I looked this up a couple years ago too. I also found that the letter M was used to signify the 1960s. So how could the serial number on his watch start with an H? Shouldn't it be M918803? They started with As in the 1940s and skipped the letters B through K, using the letter L to signify watches made in the 1950s. And the M9 watch was made in 1969. Here is a link from one of the websites I found the info on:

http://www.thewatchguy.com/pages/BulovaSerial.html

I just don't understand how the serial # on Jock's watch could start with an H if they didn't use the letter H. Unless the watch was made in another country and overseas they used letters between B and K? I'm sorry if this was explained before and I missed it or forgot it. The only explanation I can think of is that possibly the watch was made and purchased overseas and had a different serial # than those made in the USA?

Click to expand...

H918803 was the serial number, but there should have been an additional number on the watch besides this one. This number may have been M8, but it was not notated on the coroner's report.

elliottness..Good find.
Does anyone know if there is a picture of Jock's Bulova Accutron watch, front and back?
Quote:
October 25, 1960
Bulova Accutron, the first watch to keep time through electronics, is introduced. It is the most spectacular breakthrough in timekeeping since the invention of the wristwatch. This revolutionary timekeeping concept of a watch without springs or escapement is operated by an electronically activated tuning fork.
The Accutron watch goes on to become a presidential gift to world leaders and other dignitaries.
President Johnson declares it the White House's official Gift of State.

2000
On October 4, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani proclaims Bulova Day in New York City, in recognition of Bulova’s 125th anniversary.

JaneInOz said:

This is another photo of him with another photo of Jock as a insert to compare

Date Last Seen: June 08, 1975
Place Last Seen: His residence in Coleman, Alberta
Age at Time of Disappearance: 27 years
Red shirt; blue denim jeans; blue denim jacket
Additional Information:
ARCAND left his residence in Coleman, Alberta driving his 1969 Ford Falcon
stationwagon.
On July 15, 1975 his car was found abandoned 50 miles north of
Coleman.

The Hairline Eyebrows Nose Jaw all seem to fit...

Click to expand...

JaneInOz...good find! I'm inclined to believe this is our 'Jock", both have teeth missing and Jock had a appendectomy scar??...while Joseph Arcand had a Hernia scar...easily mistaken for a appendix scar.....what are the odds?
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Notice, "our S.C.Jock" does have some missing teeth, and a 'bridge where some missing teeth were.
and a 4” (10 cm) appendectomy scar and two 2” (5 cm) scars on his right shoulder.
'Jock' had very elaborate and expensive dental work with bridges and crowns.
Jock had an acrylic or porcelain crown on the left front tooth and fillings in most upper teeth.
He also had some missing teeth in top and bottom but noticeable in top back left. He was missing his lower wisdom teeth.

justthinkin said:

Shadetree, the map will only give me a satellite view, no street view.

I wouldn't worry about the spelling on Locklair, it's still just a form of Locklear.

Here's something I found, and although it doesn't directly relate to this case, it still may be of some interest here.

Robeson County, NC marriage records from 1799-1868

http://www.mountainpress.com/books/nc/details/fi-1037w.html

Here are all the different spellings of Locklear contained within.

LOCKELEAR LOCKLAER LOCKLAIR LOCKLEAR** LOCKLEER LOCKLEIAR LOCKLIAR LOCKLIER

How this happens is that many people in the US were illiterate back then, and didn't have an idea how to spell their last name so it was up to the census taker to determine the spelling or the bank or whatever entity with which they had business. Various spellings may have also served to distinguish 4 Locklear guys named John living in the same county. I'm just using that as an example.

Today, those with the spelling Locklair, may pronounce it as it sounds, different pronounciation for different spellings. However, those who are proud of their Lumbee heritage may pronounce it Locklear no matter the spelling. Still others may have abandoned their spelling variation in favor of the spelling Locklear. Bet you didn't want a genealogy lesson.

Click to expand...

More knowledge is never a bad thing!
You don't see the little "Google Man" on the map (where you can drag to increase or decrease your view)?

If you do see him, just drag him and drop him on the map where you want to "virtually" walk around. I think it's pretty cool, but then sometimes I'm pretty easily amused!

rmf said:

The emphasis on the Jane Doe's facial moles has been stressed by the former coroner, Mrs Moore, who has been working on this case for years. She has used this characteristic to rule out potential matches and that is why I felt it noteworthy to mention it here......

Click to expand...

The more details the better when searching for anyone...details solve cases!

I believe Jocks 4 inch scar called a appendectomy scar is too long for an appendix scar and is in fact is a possible hernia scar..
Notice this sentence below, some reports had overlooked or left out the word 'undergoing'..."He was undergoing extensive dental reconstruction and had two scars on his left shoulder."

Quoting Ms. Moore:

Both were white, with olive tones to their skin and were between 18 and 26 years old.

She was 5-foot-6, weighed about 105 pounds and had brown hair, blue-grey eyes, long eyelashes and two small moles to the left of her mouth.

She wore a white blouse over a peach halter top and blue Levi's jeans cut off into shorts with a floral scarf as a belt. She wore purple and pink wedge shoes and three silver rings with embedded gems.

He was just over 6 feet and weighed about 150 pounds. He had brown hair, brown eyes and bushy eyebrows.

He was undergoing extensive dental reconstruction and had two scars on his left shoulder.
He wore a red Coors T-shirt, blue jeans and brown sandals. He had a Bulova Accutron gold watch and a gold ring with a gem and the engraved letters JPF.

Their autopsy notes describe the couple simply: "slender, attractive" and "well-developed, well-nourished."

Three decades after he first saw them, Dr. Garvin once again returned to the couple's remains. He took bone samples he hopes will yield DNA.

Without something to compare the DNA with, however, it will be of little help. That means hope in Sumter County again turns to Canada.

"If someone in Canada came forward and said, ‘I think that is my brother or sister,' or whatever, then we could obtain an oral sample from them to compare. It's our best bet," Sgt. Mackessy said.

Added Ms. Moore: "I cannot understand how two young people disappeared from somewhere and that their parents would not be looking for them. It is unreal that after all this time - it will be 32 years this summer - that nobody seems to be looking for them."

Or maybe they have just been looking in all the wrong places.

Guys, I hope someone mentions this case to the Vidocq Society Members, this is a mysterious case that definitely needs solving..
Quote:
Vidocq Society Members (V.S.M.'s) evaluate, investigate, refocus, revivify and solve the unsolved deaths officially brought to them.

V.S.M.'s are forensic professionals and motivated private citizens who, as a public service, donate deductive, scientific and other talents for the common good.
A long-unsolved homicide or death is the focus of a Vidocq Society meeting during which the case and its evidence are dissected for members and invited guests, all with an eye towards rekindling or refocusing the investigation......

elliottness said:

Okay, I did some research on Bulova Accutron watches and here's what I found out:

Serial numbers that began with a letter were made in the USA (ex. A12345). So, the watch that "Jock" was wearing had a serial number of H918803 which means it was made in the USA. Each watch had a serial number and underneath a 2-digit age marker made up of one letter and one number. Here are some examples:

A9 = 1949 (this was the first dating done)
L0-L9 - 1950's, L0 = 1950, L1 = 1951..... L9 = 1959
M0-M9 - 1960's, M0 = 1960, M1 = 1961....etc... toM6 = 1966, etc.
N0-N9 - 1970's. N3 = 1973, etc.

According to the coroner's report, this watch was made in 1968 so I'm assuming the 2-digit age marker was M8 on the watch. Can anyone verify this?

Also, production of this type of watch stopped in 1977. And this information comes from Bulova's website: "Starting in 1948 Bulova began marking the back of watch cases with the year of the watch. To determine the age of a watch made prior to 1948, you would need to send it to Bulova service, as the only year indication for these watches is inside the casing. For watches from 1948 and 1949 the actual year is printed. After that, a letter denoting the decade followed by the digit of the year is marked. This practice began in the '50s, with the letter L. M signified the '60s, N the '70s, P the '80s, T the '90s and A the '00s (2000). So, for example, if P9 is on the case back, the watch was manufactured in 1989. The only way to know the value of a watch, unfortunately, is to have it appraised by a professional jewelry appraiser.".........

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elliottness, very good find! I agree, something is wrong with the information we have about the gold, Bulova watch..:waitasec:

NOtice the information given on this 1974 Bulova watch I found forsale on the net.
(for example only)
Vintage Gold Filled Bulova Accutron #2032 Tuning Fork Watch
Manufacturer: Bulova
Condition: Excellent
Model: Accutron #3410 Size: 30mm x 26mm
Movement: 2032 Tuning Fork
Serial Number: 612,873
Case: Gold Filled
Crystal Type: Plastic
Estimated Date of Manufacture: 1974

Mysterylover said:

JaneInOz...good find! I'm inclined to believe this is our 'Jock", both have teeth missing and Jock had a appendectomy scar??...while Joseph Arcand had a Hernia scar...easily mistaken for a appendix scar.....what are the odds?
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Notice, "our S.C.Jock" does have some missing teeth, and a 'bridge where some missing teeth were.
and a 4” (10 cm) appendectomy scar and two 2” (5 cm) scars on his right shoulder.
'Jock' had very elaborate and expensive dental work with bridges and crowns.
Jock had an acrylic or porcelain crown on the left front tooth and fillings in most upper teeth.
He also had some missing teeth in top and bottom but noticeable in top back left. He was missing his lower wisdom teeth.

Click to expand...

Yes I think so too.

So what next ? can we send it somewhere ? to see if it is ?

Mysterylover said:

Guys, I hope someone mentions this case to the Vidocq Society Members, this is a mysterious case that definitely needs solving..
Quote:
Vidocq Society Members (V.S.M.'s) evaluate, investigate, refocus, revivify and solve the unsolved deaths officially brought to them.

V.S.M.'s are forensic professionals and motivated private citizens who, as a public service, donate deductive, scientific and other talents for the common good.
A long-unsolved homicide or death is the focus of a Vidocq Society meeting during which the case and its evidence are dissected for members and invited guests, all with an eye towards rekindling or refocusing the investigation......

Click to expand...

Why don't you contact them about this case? I know from another case that people wanted to submit on WS that according to the rules on their website you have to have the cooperation of the LE unit that is investigating the case and also permission from the families of the victims. Unfortunately, we don't know who the families are, but in this situation I would hope they would make an exception. I don't know if they investigate unidentified victims or only murder victims or missing persons whose identities are known. They are very highly thought of all over the world so it would be worth a shot.