GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4

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unless someone was being sexually assaulted and had something stuffed in their mouth to stop them screaming and the assaulter was particularly brutal and accidentally killed them, but I would imagine that would lead to some pressure marks. I am really stumped on the cause of death.
As for the face not being identifiable, then perhaps the body was stored head down, in which case blood would have pooled in the face/head, causing it to disfigure.
 
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the possibility of solvent abuse causing Tia's death. Teenage girls can die extremely quickly from inhaling lighter fuel fumes as reported in this link. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1411690.stm

Lighter fuel is readily obtainable and probably hard to find in the lungs a week after death especially if you aren't specifically looking for it.
 
Thinking out loud...and trying to come to a reasonable conclusion.

What we know/assume:
- Tia Sharp is murdered on either the night of Thursday the 2nd or the early hours of Friday 3rd August, most probably by her step grandfather who is charged
- it is reasonable to assume that, because this is a domestic murder, the death is not pre-meditated. The discovery of her body in the loft of the house she most likely died in lends credit to this theory.
- police search the house 3 times before the fourth search uncovers the body. Most likely the police were alerted by cadaver dogs. This is despite the fact that it was a humid week and that prior searches inevitably would have included the loft.
- the neighbour is also arrested - he lives in a semi-detached property. Later bailed
- no cause of death ascertained from first post mortem but the likelihood is smothering

What doesn't make sense
- the house was searched 4 times prior to the discovery of the body
- unquestionably the body would have been releasing very strong smells. Yes the body could have been moved, but when? Tia was captured on CCTV on Thursday and by Friday she had been reported missing. When would there have been an opportunity for the body to be moved, and from where?

So really all that makes sense to me is that this was an accidental murder and that PM, the neighbour, may have been instrumental in concealing and/or moving the body. I don't think that NS or partner knew anything of it, and I doubt CS's involvement now too. But still - the body was found in CS and SH's loft. There really seems NO logical explanation for anything. For me, the biggest 'wtf' is when and where the body was found. I know the police apologised for "human error" but realistically how much 'error' could there have been? To miss out searching the loft on day 1 - maybe. To conduct 3 searches afterwards without a) smelling or b) seeing the body seems to defy logic and precedent wholeheartedly.
 
Distant Observer said:
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the possibility of solvent abuse causing Tia's death. Teenage girls can die extremely quickly from inhaling lighter fuel fumes as reported in this link. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1411690.stm
Click to expand...
If she died by something she did herself, as opposed to something being done to her - why would someone put her in the loft? If she'd overdosed on SH's drugs, well, he could have been done for that - but if her death was by a cause unrelated to him in any way, there'd have been no reason to put her in the loft. If she died from inhalation of solvent abuse, surely someone would have just rung an ambulance? Mind you, I'm thinking from a rational point of view, and Tia's family clearly weren't.
 
laserdisc10 - I can't find the post where you mentioned SH perhaps felt Tia got her own way too much when he said 'she wanted it, she got it'. He said it quite sharply, if I remember, almost resentfully.

Kind of hard to equate the Tia being shoved from pillar to post most of her life with the precious 'babe' everyone 'loved to bits' and wanted back.

I really do feel this was a drug or alcohol-induced attack. Some people under the influence of drink and/or drugs can flip just like that. They just need the slightest trigger, and that's it. Having watched different parts of the interview more than once, I got the feeling he is easily irritated and has a short attention span. Not a good mix if drugs or alcohol were involved.
 
soozieqtips said:
laserdisc10 - I can't find the post where you mentioned SH perhaps felt Tia got her own way too much when he said 'she wanted it, she got it'. He said it quite sharply, if I remember, almost resentfully.

Kind of hard to equate the Tia being shoved from pillar to post most of her life with the precious 'babe' everyone 'loved to bits' and wanted back.

I really do feel this was a drug or alcohol-induced attack. Some people under the influence of drink and/or drugs can flip just like that. They just need the slightest trigger, and that's it. Having watched different parts of the interview more than once, I got the feeling he is easily irritated and has a short attention span. Not a good mix if drugs or alcohol were involved.
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laserdisc10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soozieqtips
Yeah, sounds like it.



Not to forget: ' She wanted it - she got it' ... perhaps revealing that SH believed she 'got a lot/too much', 'got her own way' ?

Seems reasonable to suggest that when NS was with SH, Tia was there as a baby and toddler -- so lots of attention devoted to the child, with SH relegated to the wings

NS moved on to have two more children with Niles and when SH took up with CS -- there was Tia again, who CS described as her 'life'

I've known step-parents who professed to dote on their step-children when others were around. In private though, it was a completely different story. SH was nothing, really - just a floating bed-mate destined to play second-fiddle to other people's children. No job, no money, no home of his own, no prospects and no children of his own that he doted upon or for whom he took responsibility (it's said he has a daughter whom he's rarely, if ever, spent time with)

He had to play genial step-grandfather. Playing the role convincingly provided him a portion of his roof and meals. Who knows though what festering resentment was brewing beneath. Maybe he would have liked to move elsewhere, but CS refused to be parted from her grandchildren? Without CS, SH would be back to living rough. And CS's extended family provided SH structure, support and semblance of belonging

Even though SH is not exactly the norm as males go, it must still have been difficult to reconcile being subservient to an older, strong female and cast as a grandad figure at 37 and with some form of mid-life watershed impending

Wonder how he really felt about playing baby-sitter to a budding teen who'd stolen his limelight for the past decade or so and whom his partner regarded as her 'life' - a child whose spending money very probably exceeded his own?
 
soozieqtips said:
If she died by something she did herself, as opposed to something being done to her - why would someone put her in the loft?
Click to expand...

One possibility could be the person who placed her in the loft would be held responsible if Tia had been experimenting with solvent abuse perhaps with their encouragement.

It seems that Tia probably died of some form of hypoxia. The great difficulty will be in determining whether it was smothering, choking, another type of asphyxia or inhalant abuse etc which caused it.
 
IHAVENOCLUE said:
I thought the vid pic of Tia looked too "matronly" for lack of a better word for a sight, small 12 year old, too.

Now that you mention it... It does look more like NS than TS.
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The cctv picture is not very clear certainly not compared to the pictures shown of jo yeates.

Looking closely I can not tell if it is NS or tia.

If it was NS it would explain Why it was NS's mobile was in the home of CS and SH.

If it was Natalie where was Tia?

The police would be able to enhance photos so sure would be able to tell who it was.
 
Typically there are a few general rules explaining what happens to the human body once it is dead. First and foremost—it decomposes. There are several processes by which decomposition is actually accomplished. Bacteria, temperature, scavengers, location, and other variables all play important roles. Let’s consider a second rule called Casper’s law. This tells us that in general, a body will decompose twice as fast in air than in water, and eight times faster in air than if buried. http://www.crimemuseum.org/blog/tag/decomposition/


here is a bit about decomp and body farms
 
Distant Observer said:
One possibility could be the person who placed her in the loft would be held responsible if Tia had been experimenting with solvent abuse perhaps with their encouragement.
Click to expand...
If Tia had died from solvent abuse, no one would ever know if she'd been encouraged to experiment with solvent abuse. So I still can't see why SH would have put her up there if he knew it couldn't be traced back to him (the possible solvent abuse).

Skigh said:
Looking closely I can not tell if it is NS or tia.
Click to expand...
NS is quite a bit bigger than Tia from all the pics I've seen. Tia looks about half the size and width of her mum in the CCTV shot. It looks like Tia to me. Wonder if the police found the bag she was carrying, or if SH and CS dumped it on their way to the 'fair'.


india99
SH was nothing, really - just a floating bed-mate destined to play second-fiddle to other people's children. No job, no money, no home of his own, no prospects and no children of his own that he doted upon or for whom he took responsibility (it's said he has a daughter whom he's rarely, if ever, spent time with)
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I know. We don't know how old she is or why he doesn't see her. We don't know who the mother of that child is or anything. It could've been a one-night stand for all we know. I wonder how she's feeling after all this?
 
It is strange that SH said that Tia left without a bag. If she arrived with a bag and did not take it with her then it would be still in the house where she left it.
 
Skigh said:
It is strange that SH said that Tia left without a bag. If she arrived with a bag and did not take it with her then it would be still in the house where she left it.
Click to expand...

New here BTW, hi everyone!

I also find it odd that SH did not pretend that TS had left the house with her phone and bag. It would not have been difficult to have hidden them with the body. It would have made his story much more convincing. I can only think that he was rushed and that after dealing with the body, and realising he'd left out her phone and bag, he had no further opportunity to hide them, before somebody had already seen them.

It does seem as though he was interrupted in being able to cover up the crime properly, as though all he had time to do was put the body in the loft before CS came home. From then on he must have known that he had no chance, but clung on to a tiny bit of hope.
 
Hi all.

I'm new. It took 6 days to get registered and a lot has happened since then and I have read every one of your posts, but may i share some thoughts that may be useful?

I want to say first that several years ago my sister went out for a walk with her dog and never came home. After a massive search, she was found dead 8 days later. There was only Mum, Dad me and sis in our family - no other relatives left. From this experience, I would like to say:

1. The police missing the body in the loft after several searches - this makes no sense at all to me. The police came and searched our house a day after we reported sis missing, and used long thin poles with mirrors on the end with lights on which allowed them to see in dark spaces, round corners and under things. They also had super powerful torches and other kit. Our loft is like the one described in CS/SH's house, and with a thick layer of lagging. If my sister's body were in our house, they would have found it. I think that Tia's body cannot have been there when they searched the previous times.

2. If the body had been there all that time, there is no way that the smell of decomposition could have been missed when the whole family were upstairs in the house when the criminologist interviewed SH downstairs. I believe some of the family, other than SH/CS were complicit and others must have suspected.

3. A poster here several days ago said it would be unlikely that the family would be asked to identify a body after such a long time. I had to identify my sister's body after 8 days missing.

4. I think it very unlikely that a cause or time of death can now be established. If Tia's body had no defence injuries or such could no longer be detected if they did exist, they will be relying on toxicology. Alcohol will still be detectable in the body after that time, and some types of illicit and prescription drugs, if they were taken.

5. I first took an interest in Tia's case right at the beginning when I saw a tiny story at the bottom of a newspaper website. I felt something was very wrong from the beginning, so being isolated with a viral infection, I got to work finding out about this family on the web, including behaviour and information on their facebook pages and the relationships of this large extended and complicated clan.

All facebook pages were there for anyone to read the posts. Tia's was there, posts removed, but with 427 friends. I felt that there was dishonesty, because the the way that some of the family presented themselves to the media was contrary to what I knew about them on their FBs. I immediately that felt Tia had been murdered close to home and that she was not missing at all. The tea shirts, the mawkish candle parade "lighting her way home". NO. When a child is missing, for several days after, you don't eat, you don't sleep, you don't sit around smoking *advertiser censored*, you drive around, walk around, you phone everyone you know, you help the police and do everything to get info for them. You follow the police's advice re posters, media etc. If a child has been kidnapped, posters and t-shirts can freak out the kidnapper. You do only what the police tell you. You keep your head together and you focus. Ask anyone whose child has gone missing.

I don't believe that SH carried this out alone, nor, if he was involved in the death was it premeditated, on his part, to terminate Tia's life. Actually, I believe others were equally or more involved.

Finally, I have some questions that I can't find an answer to. - On the Thursday night when CS/CH was at work and Tia and SH were home, could SH have popped out for a drink and left Tia there? Could someone have called when he was out? Could some of his mates have come round? Do we know for sure that they were alone there all night?

Thank you for reading. I have many more thoughts but think I have said enough! ;) You have a great community of people here :)
 
opalsqueak63 said:
Hi all.

I'm new. It took 6 days to get registered and a lot has happened since then and I have read every one of your posts, but may i share some thoughts that may be useful?

I want to say first that several years ago my sister went out for a walk with her dog and never came home. After a massive search, she was found dead 8 days later. There was only Mum, Dad me and sis in our family - no other relatives left. From this experience, I would like to say:

1. The police missing the body in the loft after several searches - this makes no sense at all to me. The police came and searched our house a day after we reported sis missing, and used long thin poles with mirrors on the end with lights on which allowed them to see in dark spaces, round corners and under things. They also had super powerful torches and other kit. Our loft is like the one described in AS/SH's house, and with a thick layer of lagging. If my sister's body were in our house, they would have found it. I think that Tia's body cannot have been there when they searched the previous times.

2. If the body had been there all that time, there is no way that the smell of decomposition could have been missed when the whole family were upstairs in the house when the criminologist interviewed SH downstairs. I believe some of the family, other than SH/CS were complicit and others must have suspected.

3. A poster here several days ago said it would be unlikely that the family would be asked to identify a body after such a long time. I had to identify my sister's body after 8 days missing.

4. I think it very unlikely that a cause or time of death can now be established. If Tia's body had no defence injuries or such could no longer be detected if they did exist, they will be relying on toxicology. Alcohol will still be detectable in the body after that time, and some types of illicit and prescription drugs, if they were taken.

5. I first took an interest in Tia's case right at the beginning when I saw a tiny story at the bottom of a newspaper website. I felt something was very wrong from the beginning, so being isolated with a viral infection, I got to work finding out about this family on the web, including behaviour and information on their facebook pages and the relationships of this large extended and complicated clan.

All facebook pages were there for anyone to read the posts. Tia's was there, posts removed, but with 427 friends. I felt that there was dishonesty, because the the way that some of the family presented themselves to the media was contrary to what I knew about them on their FBs. I immediately that felt Tia had been murdered close to home and that she was not missing at all. The tea shirts, the mawkish candle parade "lighting her way home". NO. When a child is missing, for several days after, you don't eat, you don't sleep, you don't sit around smoking *advertiser censored*, you drive around, walk around, you phone everyone you know, you help the police and do everything to get info for them. You follow the police's advice re posters, media etc. If a child has been kidnapped, posters and t-shirts can freak out the kidnapper. You do only what the police tell you. You keep your head together and you focus. Ask anyone whose child has gone missing.

I don't believe that SH carried this out alone, nor, if he was involved in the death was it premeditated, on his part, to terminate Tia's life. Actually, I believe others were equally or more involved.

Finally, I have some questions that I can't find an answer to. - On the Thursday night when CS/CH was at work and Tia and SH were home, could SH have popped out for a drink and left Tia there? Could someone have called when he was out? Could some of his mates have come round? Do we know for sure that they were alone there all night?

Thank you for reading. I have many more thoughts but think I have said enough! ;) You have a great community of people here :)
Click to expand...

you can never say too much when you have gone through the same kind of tragedy.

you more than anybody will be able to advise on how people should be feeling in the days after somebody that young goes missing, i have no idea how they would feel and i hope i never do, you had no choice but to feel that way.

also you can give people an idea of what goes on after somebody has been reported missing, we know what goes on outside a house but not inside.

i don't want you to have to relive that experience at all and wouldn't even ask you to.

no doubt some people on here are going to ask how your sister died etc, that will be up to you to tell them, as for other things i doubt you will wanted to be reminded of, well only you can decide that.

and to all the people on this forum, please be respectful if asking questions, think first before you ask.

Welcome to the forum.
 
Hi opalsqueak - so sorry to hear about your sister. Losing someone so suddenly is a shock you never get over. I hope you've found some peace in your life since then.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about Tia. It's interesting what you said about how the police would normally dictate events after a possible kidnap, like the posters and t-shirts etc. But Tia's family seemed a little too organised and suspiciously quick off the mark. The candles, t-shirts and posters seem to have taken priority over getting their stories straight, and that's what's going to be their undoing, all the discrepancies.

A member noted earlier that SH had not addressed the 'kidnapper' at any point during his interview, instead, speaking directly to Tia, who as we know now, was already dead. Although Gran said she knew Tia was not staying away through choice, and the mum said "we think she's been taken" - not one of them asked the 'kidnapper' to let her go.

Also, I still find it strange that NS insisted they had an 'independent' witness who had seen her leave the house. It's like she was told to say it by Gran or DS, to ensure that it was known she definitely left the house.

I was thinking that if a cause of death can't be established, then we might never know what went on that day. I'm sure Hazell is thanking his lucky stars that the decomposition was pretty bad, as without concrete evidence of what actually happened to Tia, he can carry on telling more lies.
 
opalsqueak63 said:
Finally, I have some questions that I can't find an answer to. - On the Thursday night when CS/CH was at work and Tia and SH were home, could SH have popped out for a drink and left Tia there? Could someone have called when he was out? Could some of his mates have come round? Do we know for sure that they were alone there all night?
Click to expand...
We don't know for sure if Tia was alone all night with SH. He hasn't mentioned anyone else being there as far as I know, but as we know he's a liar, it could be quite possible that he had friends round, maybe even the next door neighbour who was arrested and then released. Whether he went out for a drink, I don't know. If he did, I think it's unlikely someone else came round and killed Tia, mainly because I can't see someone like SH taking the rap for someone else.
 
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