Casey's seizure? NEW INFORMATION 2011.09.08

JBean said:

You know this is an excellent point. My son cannot remember anything before or after his seizures by about 2 hours either way.

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could this be the "only half the story" JB is planning to present as the major defense. Prior history of seizure and perhaps memory loss to account for KC either blacking out and finding Caylee drowned and then memory loss or panic setting in and details a fog so she made up the story? Defense teams can really spin a yarn. Perhaps the "seizure" was drug related but depending on when it happened. could also have been part of her overall planned defesne stratagey if killing of Caylee resulted in her being caught or just to explain any erractic behavoir and lies on her part. Its a good thing the her history of lying, long precedes her seizure claim.

Most likely it was all a ploy, just like describing the major accident and injuries of Zenaida and family in the phony car accident story. Her lies are always very grandious and over the top or a way to divert attention from her actions or to gain sympathy from others. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the defense strategy. It just might show up. After all, they are grasping at straws to show their client as other than a totally manipulative lying sociopath.

JBean said:

Did CA know that KC had been drinking heavily?

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No, I don't recall either of the GP's mentioning that.

Casey was over 18, could she tell the ER doctors not to mention that to GPs?
I think it is odd the hospital ran so many tests if she was drinking the night before, sounded more like an alcohol overdose than a seizure to me.

Could she have fooled JG into thinking she was having a seizure or was JG just too young to know the difference from a seizure and what a person looks like that is having signs of alcohol poisoning(or any effects from too much booze)?

Seizure is so much more of a dramatic than telling someone you just drank too much the night before, I think Casey would go for the drama over the facts.

One of the problems with anything wrong with one's central nervous system is that if it's severe and pervasive enough, it can interfere with the autonomic and peripheral nervous systems as well. In psychopaths, such maladies as what was once called neurasthenia (a state of unnatural sedation) or epilepsy (seizure disorders) are far more frequent than in the general population.


took that from this site...http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_you_are_the_mother_of_a_sociopath_what_should_you_do
makes sense, Casey is a textbook psychopath/sociopath. That link also has some very interesting insight to what might be going on in Casey's mind.

JBean said:

Typical protocol in ER when a person is brought in for a seizure is some testing, definitely an EEG. More exhaustive studies to rule out tumors and lesions would most likely be up to the patient after release.
But because of HIPAA we may never know what testing was done, unless it comes out in her defense.

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TURBOTHINK said:

The trauma center in my area does not order EEGs for seizure patients. They usually treat the patient to stop the seizures if they are in Status epilepticus and if not just observe until the seizure stops.

HIPAA has no effect on court orders. I am sure they got a warrant for the medical information.

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JBean said:

Oh that is interesting, I'll be more careful about talking in such absolutes.
SE is a whole new ballgame as that is life threatening.
When I was referring to HIPAA, I meant we wouldn't be reading it in the newspaper , unless the defense were to reveal it. I don't think the prosecution would get the records and then release them to the press, do you?

I totally agree that the EEG's are a waste of time because unless they are sleep deprived EEG's it is rare to catch.
We don't take my son to the hospital for his seizures we just wait it out.

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As discussed by the posters above, HIPAA does prevent medical care providers from releasing a person's private medical info, etc.

In this case, one would expect that if the state wanted any such information, it would be subpoenaed. Copies would be released to the defense in fulfillment with discovery rules and present orders from Judge S re: discovery and production. After that, you can expect some requests for this information to be filed pursuant to the FL sunshine laws.

LI_Mom said:

All the accidents... make believe hospitalizations..... the endless DRAMA.....

You know..... I wonder if Caylee could have been a victim of Munchausen by Proxy?

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Reading what I read today, the news report that duct tape was on the mouth and there was a high level of chloroform in the car, I'm wondering if you're not right. I'm viewing this in the context of KC and Cindy's supposed fight on 6/15, and KC's "I'm a spiteful b*tch" comment, and her Zanny cover story...

I'm wondering if KC was intending on staging a kidnapping...I'm wondering if she chloroformed Caylee on 6/16, and put her in the trunk hoping to stage a kidnapping to hurt Cindy and to get attention/sympathy for herself...but something went wrong and Caylee died...chloroform and duct tape are signatures of kidnapping in the movies, if not necessarily in real life, so maybe she thought this would seem "convincing".

strach304 said:

Actually this has crept into my mind, that she really doesn't know what happened or if what happened had anything to do with a seizure. If it's drug related rather than say Epileptic that would be a good reason in her mind to cover it up and lie.

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I'm another one who always wondered about this in this case. I do hope her lawyers insisted on her being tested regarding seizure disorder. (Also tested for drugs to see exactly what was in her system, for example if she could conceivably have been chloroformed or drugged by someone, possibly leading to confusion or not knowing things that had happened, or if she was on drugs that could have affected her perception, memory, or behavior.) What JG described sounded like a classic grand mal seizure. But one wonders if she could have had other seizures that were unnoticed. People can have so many seizure disorders that are not easily identified by the untrained eye, they can go undiagosed and be mistaken for behavior disorders. I knew someone who would go around putting things in weird places, leaving stuff all around the house, engaging in behavior not within their normal personality, saying weird things, etc. Some people don't fall down into a grand mal seizure but get disoriented or may even start throwing punches or get into fights, stuff like that, with certain types of seizures. My brother has epilepsy pursuant to a head injury he had when he was 12, started having grand mal seizures when he was 16, his seizures look a lot like what JG described. My brother's seizures have been completely controlled by meds for 20+ years now, thank heavens. But yeah a lot of us wonder the extent of any potential seizure disorder in KC's case, and for that matter, the extent of the fantasy life (for example, her fake work emails), what is the extent of this fantasy life in her mind, i.e., how much of it is real to her, which characters might actually be her, is there actually a shifting of identity or consciousness in her mind, is it related to a medical disorder, etc.

seagull65 said:

Yes, many of us have wondered about this in this case. I do hope her lawyers insisted on her being tested regarding a possible seizure disorder. (Also tested for drugs to see exactly what was in her system, for example if she could conceivably have been chloroformed or drugged by someone, possibly leading to confusion or not knowing things that had happened, or if she was on drugs that could have affected her perception, memory, or behavior.) What JG described sounded like a classic grand mal seizure. But one wonders if she could have had other seizures that were unnoticed. People can have so many seizure disorders that are not easily identified by the untrained eye, they can go undiagosed and be mistaken for behavior disorders. I knew someone who would go around putting things in weird places, leaving stuff all around the house, engaging in behavior not within their normal personality, saying weird things, etc. Some people don't fall down into a grand mal seizure but get disoriented or may even start throwing punches or get into fights, stuff like that, with certain types of seizures. My brother has epilepsy pursuant to a head injury he had when he was 12, started having grand mal seizures when he was 16, his seizures look a lot like what JG described. My brother's seizures have been completely controlled by meds for many years now, thank heavens. But yeah a lot of us wonder the extent of any potential seizure disorder in KC's case, and for that matter, the extent of the fantasy life (for example, her fake work emails), what is the extent of this fantasy life in her mind, i.e., how much of it is real to her, which characters might actually be her, is there actually a shifting of identity or consciousness in her mind, etc.

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A seizure disorder could explain why she might not remember something, but does not explain why she would perpetuate her lies.

You might want to look into the psych profile thread regarding the balance of your post, lot of information in those threads.

njbaker said:

One of the problems with anything wrong with one's central nervous system is that if it's severe and pervasive enough, it can interfere with the autonomic and peripheral nervous systems as well. In psychopaths, such maladies as what was once called neurasthenia (a state of unnatural sedation) or epilepsy (seizure disorders) are far more frequent than in the general population.

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thanks for this, that is very interesting.

It's amazing how more and more, medical/biological causes are being found for things that we used to think were voluntary behavior issues

I do not believe that Casey ever had a seizure.
But I do believe that she IS a Seizure to her entire family.

In the Gemeral population 5 yrs ago 1 in every 100 people have a form of seizure disorder. You can google the epilepsy foundation for more current stats. They will also answer any questions pertaining to seizures by just calling their 1-800 no. The more questions asked by lay people the more this disability becomes acceptable in the general population. If I'm correct the jails see more seizures amonst the prison population in people who have behavior disorders. The studies show the Left frontal cortex very active while the right brain seems somewhat dormant. For fun google, "Psychopaths faking seizures." I have a family member who suffers from seizures causing me to utilize the free advice of the epilepsy foundation like they were my new best friends & now they are. Seizure disorder is not cut and dry. As I have stated in the past, "Psychiatry and the law are meshed together to find truth," but this will not interfere with KC's judgement day. The brain made me do it is no excuse for KC in a court of law.

The Jett Travolta thread helps illustrate the complexity and misconceptions about seizure disorders and their treatment.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77387

Hello, Everyone- First time poster but a long time lurker. I don't claim to be a professional but unfortunately have too much first hand experience as the primary caregiver to a family member w/TIE (Trauma induced epilepsy) and now SMI (Severe mental illness) due in large part, according to his team of doctors, to years of uncontrolled seizures. Part of what drew me to this case is the similiarities in his bad behavior and Casey's. Status Epilipitcus can be deadly but SUDDEP (Sudden Unexplained Death Due to Epiliepsy) can be also. More interesting (and more on topic) is the many types of seizures. Before I had to deal w/this on a personal level, someone said seizure and I thought Grand Mal. That isn't the type my family member has. He has complex partial seizures and many times, except for some weird behavior that was written off, it wasn't/isn't even noticable and thus went undiagnosed for years. Many of us "space off" sometimes- blank stare, just looking straight ahead w/o blinking- like we're daydreaming. These could have been going on w/KC, especially if she is a heavy drinker. My family member's behavior has progressed to something not unlike what the Anthony family has had to deal with, outside of the murdering. Just the ability to lie completely straight faced w/o any shame or guilt regardless of who he is hurting. He has stolen more money from me than I can count, took the car (knowing he can't drive w/seizures) and has had periods of hypersexuality (again, not unlike KC). He will steal money from our family to buy stupid, needless things (again, just like KC). Unlike the A's, however, he is in intense counseling, has been hospitalized 10x this year alone and is on a cocktail of meds. We don't deny his problems but at first, it was hard to believe. As many here that have dealt w/sociopaths have said, it is hard for a "normal" person to fathom the depths of depravity. My family member now wants help, doesn't want to live like this and willingly goes to counseling and takes his meds but it wasn't always that way. Please don't get me wrong, I am not defending KC and, IMO, I think KC should fry for what she did. Although we don't think my family member is capable of doing anything remotely close to murder, if he did I would aid the prosecution any way I could. Sorry so long but I wanted to throw out there what my personal experience has been and how it relates to this case. Thank you!

MD MOMMY said:

I haven't found any additional info other than it was earlier this year and JG took her to the hospital. Seizures could be a result of so many things..it's hard to speculate exactly why..ya know?

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I thought TL took her to the E.R.?

Nicole_LongIsland said:

I thought TL took her to the E.R.?

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Ooops yes JG took her to the E.R. but no where in the report did it state a reason for her seizure. Thus, I am wondering where in the 700 page document did LE locate a 911 call made in 2007 about heavy drinking being the reason for the seizure.

CASuzk said:

So Jesse took Casey to the hospital a while back for a seizure.
Anyone know why? Was this the first one? Is she epileptic and if so, was her driver's licence restricted?
I'm not sure what the time limit on driving following seizure is there in FL but in CA, you are restricted from driving until you have been without a seizure for some time. Doctors can face fines if they do not report patients who have had a seizure. This law has been in place since a man ran over several people here about 20 years ago.

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My original post got moved for some reason..Anyway, I am certain I read early on the KC did NOT have a drivers license. I bring this up bc as you said those who are eplieptic cannot legally drive for obvious reasons. I also know that it is standard procedure for a hospital to notify the DMV in cases like these.

Amberjack said:

Not sure if this is true or not....
I read somewhere that Casey only has a Driver's Permit
No Driver's License

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correct...KC did NOT have a license.

"News 13 has learned that she does not have a driver's license, only a learner's permit, so it was unclear how she got around with her daughter." Now I am wondering why GA & CA allowed her to drive. Wondering if she just snubbed her nose to taking the road test or if she had a license that was revoked due to the seizure JG took her to the E.R. for in 2007.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sideba...ed_over_casey_anthony39s_emotional_state.html

seizure (last paragraph)
The caller informed the 911 operator that Casey Anthony was having a seizure. The operator notes that Casey was "unresponsive and shaking" and that she had experienced "nausea all day and was drinking heavily" the night before.”

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7953974&version=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Nicole_LongIsland said:

correct...KC did NOT have a license.

"News 13 has learned that she does not have a driver's license, only a learner's permit, so it was unclear how she got around with her daughter." Now I am wondering why GA & CA allowed her to drive.

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Say what?! She had no license, yet Cindy and George provided a car for her to drive?!

Do they live ten minutes at a time, too?! They never contemplated the ruinous financial consequences they might experience if Casey were in an accident?

Outrageous.

I'm in the there-was-no-seizure camp. I think it was a Casey fabrication. I wonder what topic of conversation or activity she was try to avoid when she "seized." It seems to me that if Cindy or George said to her, one morning, "We really need to have a talk about what's been going on around here," or even, "We need you to pitch in," she'd find a "seizure" a mighty good way to postpone that discussion. Cindy and George walk on eggshells around her to avoid her wrath--they certainly would not press a Sick Little Princess to do anything she didn't want to do.

Not buying it for one second.

She didn't have a driver's license?

Yes she did have a licence. search the forum - someone linked a florida database that contains it.