NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

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I am not sure if this has been asked/addressed earlier but quick questions that come to mind and hope someone can help answer. How far into the base was his duplex? Were there MPs at the entrance of the base? Military bases are usually gated and guarded, not sure of security during that time though.

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I have no idea what to think about Jeff McDonald's guilt or innocence. My dad was in the army in 1970 (I was a toddler) and we were stationed/living in Killeen Tx. As a teen my mom told me about this case and over the years I come back to it. I've not read Fatal Vision or any of the books about the case, but have read many of the actual trial documents. I certainly won't profess extensive knowledge of it but the main thing I always come back to is the military trial. I was under the impression (maybe wrongly) that military court was run with much more precision, less collusion between judges/prosecutors/and police, harsher approach in proving guilt or innocence as the military is all about (I thought) honor and justice and less likely to be biased (by bribes, pandering judges trying to be re-elected etc). McDonald's military trial didn't prosecute due to "lack of evidence proving his guilt" and he was honorably discharged. He also passed a lie detector test "in overwhelming fashion". Ibe no idea really if he did it or not..we probably never will know unless we invent technology to read his mind, but it really stumps me that a military court/JAG found nothing substantial to tie to him yet 9 years later, all this "evidence" appeared and he was convicted. Which court bungled the in investigation? The military or the govt? Only one court can be right. Military (innocent), or govt (guilty). Anyone have any insight?
 
Thank you. When I originally wrote it the paragraphs did not look so jumbled in the preview. As for the house, it looks largely the same (I can take a photo if you'd like). I am not sure if it really was destroyed and rebuilt as I arrived to Bragg in 2010, and again since the place looks very much the same. The numbers of the address have been changed though, presumably to deter tourists.
 
jj44 said:
I am not sure if this has been asked/addressed earlier but quick questions that come to mind and hope someone can help answer. How far into the base was his duplex? Were there MPs at the entrance of the base? Military bases are usually gated and guarded, not sure of security during that time though.

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Click to expand...

The duplex is actually only about 1/4 mile from Bragg Blvd. In 1970 it was an open post so anyone had access.
 
jj44 said:
I am not sure if this has been asked/addressed earlier but quick questions that come to mind and hope someone can help answer. How far into the base was his duplex? Were there MPs at the entrance of the base? Military bases are usually gated and guarded, not sure of security during that time though.

Sent from my LGMS330 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I lived close to Ft Bragg back at that time. My cousin lived in Fayetteville, NC. At the time of the murders, Ft. Bragg was an open base -- meaning that anyone could drive through the base on "regular roads." Anyone could have driven down MacDonald's street on the base. I'm sure there were areas that were restricted -- training areas, etc. In fact, I went to a large family-type jamboree-cook-out when I was a teenager with a neighbor family who were definitely non-military folks. Roads in and out were open & unguarded. Since 911, as we know, all military base entrances, etc., are closely guarded, fenced, & totally restricted.
 
Something that should have tipped off investigators from almost the very start that MacDonald’s account was a crock was that when the MPs arrived, the house was dark. (There was no power blackout despite the rain.) Consider JM’s account and then see if you can discern for yourselves what I mean by that. Hint: Almost no one thinks this horrific crime was premeditated before that fateful night. It was sudden rage. Therefore, the good doctor had to think fast regarding his attempted cover-up. it was inevitable he’d make a mistake like this one (and others).
 
fatdumplins said:
Thank you. When I originally wrote it the paragraphs did not look so jumbled in the preview. As for the house, it looks largely the same (I can take a photo if you'd like). I am not sure if it really was destroyed and rebuilt as I arrived to Bragg in 2010, and again since the place looks very much the same. The numbers of the address have been changed though, presumably to deter tourists.
Click to expand...


ABC 11 Eyewitness News

March 14, 2008 9:00:00 PM PDT

FORT BRAGG -- A notorious Fort Bragg crime scene was destroyed Saturday. Authorities say former Army doctor and Green Beret, Jeffrey MacDonald, killed his pregnant wife Colette MacDonald and their two daughters, 6-year-old Kimberly and 2-year-old Kristen Jean.

They were found stabbed to death in the early morning of February 17th 1970 in their home. A jury convicted MacDonald nine years later.

The home is now one of 28 demolished to make room for a new neighborhood center.
 
I have followed this case for years. I have combed through all available evidence to the public. What I question is that MacDonald reports that he awakened to Colette and Kimberley screaming... "Help me Jeff".... and "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy...." when he awakened 3 male intruders were attacking him on the couch and a woman was standing there. If he was awakened by screams.. Colette and Kimberley were already being attacked... but by who? If the 3 intruders were at the couch attacking him, they can't be attacking the girls at the same time. Were there more than 4 intruders? It's impossible for 5-6 people to be in a small apartment and leave no evidence they were there. Also what weapons were being used on Colette and Kimberley? The intruders can't use the same weapons in two different places at once. The intruders in the bedroom didn't stop to borrow the weapons from the people attacking MacDonald on the couch. Evidence supports that the 3 weapons being used on MacDonald on the couch were the same weapons used to kill Colette, Kimberley, and Kristin. Again.. At the time he was attacked he reported hearing the girls screaming. How can they be screaming from an attack with the same weapons at the same time the attackers are at the couch attacking him? He left foot print evidence in the hallway whether it was from killing them or going room to room to check on them.... he still left physical evidence and he is one person. How did 4-6 people kill 3 people, walk through the house, and left no blood evidence anywhere? No shoe print, hand print, or fiber. But one man leaves a foot print after "checking on the 3 girls and attempting CPR" But not one intruder left one shoe print - they had to have gotten blood on themselves from closely and repeatedly stabbing the victims. Blood all over Colette's floor and not one time during the attack did the attacker step in her blood and leave a print anywhere. But the husband managed to leave a print. Also, if he attempted mouth to mouth on his wife like he said, then called for help from the bedroom phone, why was there not blood or a bloody fingerprint on the phone from him. He used two different phones and did not leave one blood smudge, fingerprint or handprint. I just can't find him innocent, no matter how hard I have tried.
 
Gr8nurse416 said:
I have followed this case for years. I have combed through all available evidence to the public. What I question is that MacDonald reports that he awakened to Colette and Kimberley screaming... "Help me Jeff".... and "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy...." when he awakened 3 male intruders were attacking him on the couch and a woman was standing there. If he was awakened by screams.. Colette and Kimberley were already being attacked... but by who? If the 3 intruders were at the couch attacking him, they can't be attacking the girls at the same time. Were there more than 4 intruders? It's impossible for 5-6 people to be in a small apartment and leave no evidence they were there. Also what weapons were being used on Colette and Kimberley? The intruders can't use the same weapons in two different places at once. The intruders in the bedroom didn't stop to borrow the weapons from the people attacking MacDonald on the couch. Evidence supports that the 3 weapons being used on MacDonald on the couch were the same weapons used to kill Colette, Kimberley, and Kristin. Again.. At the time he was attacked he reported hearing the girls screaming. How can they be screaming from an attack with the same weapons at the same time the attackers are at the couch attacking him? He left foot print evidence in the hallway whether it was from killing them or going room to room to check on them.... he still left physical evidence and he is one person. How did 4-6 people kill 3 people, walk through the house, and left no blood evidence anywhere? No shoe print, hand print, or fiber. But one man leaves a foot print after "checking on the 3 girls and attempting CPR" But not one intruder left one shoe print - they had to have gotten blood on themselves from closely and repeatedly stabbing the victims. Blood all over Colette's floor and not one time during the attack did the attacker step in her blood and leave a print anywhere. But the husband managed to leave a print. Also, if he attempted mouth to mouth on his wife like he said, then called for help from the bedroom phone, why was there not blood or a bloody fingerprint on the phone from him. He used two different phones and did not leave one blood smudge, fingerprint or handprint. I just can't find him innocent, no matter how hard I have tried.
Click to expand...

Welp, there ya go & great post.

I despise this evil creature.


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Gr8nurse416 said:
I have followed this case for years. I have combed through all available evidence to the public. What I question is that MacDonald reports that he awakened to Colette and Kimberley screaming... "Help me Jeff".... and "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy...." when he awakened 3 male intruders were attacking him on the couch and a woman was standing there. If he was awakened by screams.. Colette and Kimberley were already being attacked... but by who? If the 3 intruders were at the couch attacking him, they can't be attacking the girls at the same time. Were there more than 4 intruders? It's impossible for 5-6 people to be in a small apartment and leave no evidence they were there. Also what weapons were being used on Colette and Kimberley? The intruders can't use the same weapons in two different places at once. The intruders in the bedroom didn't stop to borrow the weapons from the people attacking MacDonald on the couch. Evidence supports that the 3 weapons being used on MacDonald on the couch were the same weapons used to kill Colette, Kimberley, and Kristin. Again.. At the time he was attacked he reported hearing the girls screaming. How can they be screaming from an attack with the same weapons at the same time the attackers are at the couch attacking him? He left foot print evidence in the hallway whether it was from killing them or going room to room to check on them.... he still left physical evidence and he is one person. How did 4-6 people kill 3 people, walk through the house, and left no blood evidence anywhere? No shoe print, hand print, or fiber. But one man leaves a foot print after "checking on the 3 girls and attempting CPR" But not one intruder left one shoe print - they had to have gotten blood on themselves from closely and repeatedly stabbing the victims. Blood all over Colette's floor and not one time during the attack did the attacker step in her blood and leave a print anywhere. But the husband managed to leave a print. Also, if he attempted mouth to mouth on his wife like he said, then called for help from the bedroom phone, why was there not blood or a bloody fingerprint on the phone from him. He used two different phones and did not leave one blood smudge, fingerprint or handprint. I just can't find him innocent, no matter how hard I have tried.
Click to expand...

Christina Masewicz has a website - The Jeffery MacDonald information site that can answer many of your question. Colette 's brother Bob Stevenson will answer any questions you have. I''ve asked him asked the same question about the living room, and he said that Freddy Kassab spent a lot of time in the apartment going over jmo story re creating it, and drawing diagrams, and told CID his thoughts. CID did do an reactment of that night, putting five people in the living room, and they made a video, and used it to training agents 7 crime scenes .

Mr. Stevenson was still alive last I heard.
 
Gr8nurse416 said:
I have followed this case for years. I have combed through all available evidence to the public. What I question is that MacDonald reports that he awakened to Colette and Kimberley screaming... "Help me Jeff".... and "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy...." when he awakened 3 male intruders were attacking him on the couch and a woman was standing there. If he was awakened by screams.. Colette and Kimberley were already being attacked... but by who? If the 3 intruders were at the couch attacking him, they can't be attacking the girls at the same time. Were there more than 4 intruders? It's impossible for 5-6 people to be in a small apartment and leave no evidence they were there. Also what weapons were being used on Colette and Kimberley? The intruders can't use the same weapons in two different places at once. The intruders in the bedroom didn't stop to borrow the weapons from the people attacking MacDonald on the couch. Evidence supports that the 3 weapons being used on MacDonald on the couch were the same weapons used to kill Colette, Kimberley, and Kristin. Again.. At the time he was attacked he reported hearing the girls screaming. How can they be screaming from an attack with the same weapons at the same time the attackers are at the couch attacking him? He left foot print evidence in the hallway whether it was from killing them or going room to room to check on them.... he still left physical evidence and he is one person. How did 4-6 people kill 3 people, walk through the house, and left no blood evidence anywhere? No shoe print, hand print, or fiber. But one man leaves a foot print after "checking on the 3 girls and attempting CPR" But not one intruder left one shoe print - they had to have gotten blood on themselves from closely and repeatedly stabbing the victims. Blood all over Colette's floor and not one time during the attack did the attacker step in her blood and leave a print anywhere. But the husband managed to leave a print. Also, if he attempted mouth to mouth on his wife like he said, then called for help from the bedroom phone, why was there not blood or a bloody fingerprint on the phone from him. He used two different phones and did not leave one blood smudge, fingerprint or handprint. I just can't find him innocent, no matter how hard I have tried.
Click to expand...

^^ This.
 
Yep, Gr8nurse416, that's essentially what got him convicted. Good post, and there's this:

:welcome: to Websleuths, Gr8nurse!! We're glad you're here!

:daisy::daisy:
​
 
Gr8nurse416 said:
I have followed this case for years. I have combed through all available evidence to the public. What I question is that MacDonald reports that he awakened to Colette and Kimberley screaming... "Help me Jeff".... and "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy...." when he awakened 3 male intruders were attacking him on the couch and a woman was standing there. If he was awakened by screams.. Colette and Kimberley were already being attacked... but by who? If the 3 intruders were at the couch attacking him, they can't be attacking the girls at the same time. Were there more than 4 intruders? It's impossible for 5-6 people to be in a small apartment and leave no evidence they were there. Also what weapons were being used on Colette and Kimberley? The intruders can't use the same weapons in two different places at once. The intruders in the bedroom didn't stop to borrow the weapons from the people attacking MacDonald on the couch. Evidence supports that the 3 weapons being used on MacDonald on the couch were the same weapons used to kill Colette, Kimberley, and Kristin. Again.. At the time he was attacked he reported hearing the girls screaming. How can they be screaming from an attack with the same weapons at the same time the attackers are at the couch attacking him? He left foot print evidence in the hallway whether it was from killing them or going room to room to check on them.... he still left physical evidence and he is one person. How did 4-6 people kill 3 people, walk through the house, and left no blood evidence anywhere? No shoe print, hand print, or fiber. But one man leaves a foot print after "checking on the 3 girls and attempting CPR" But not one intruder left one shoe print - they had to have gotten blood on themselves from closely and repeatedly stabbing the victims. Blood all over Colette's floor and not one time during the attack did the attacker step in her blood and leave a print anywhere. But the husband managed to leave a print. Also, if he attempted mouth to mouth on his wife like he said, then called for help from the bedroom phone, why was there not blood or a bloody fingerprint on the phone from him. He used two different phones and did not leave one blood smudge, fingerprint or handprint. I just can't find him innocent, no matter how hard I have tried.
Click to expand...

Great first post...and :welcome: to WS.

His story makes no sense on so many levels.

Who is going to go begin attacking little girls, while their big strong soldier father is asleep on the couch?

But there is one thing that has never made any sense to me at all. And the jurors probably had a similar reaction---to one glaring problem.

I know with all of my heart, that if intruders broke into my home, and tried to kill our babies, my husband would be DEAD before the children were. No way that he would have been alive at the end of his family being murdered in their beds.

If he wanted to make the story believable, he should have gone harder with his own injuries, and just killed himself with then and there...
 
People Magazine Investigates: The Accused----Dr Jeffrey MacDonald--" The Real Story"


UGH, another bogus tv special trying to make these convicted monsters 'innocent.'

This was so one sided. So much of the states evidence was ignored, and they tried to run with the hippies carrying candles and chanting 'kill the pigs.'
 
katydid23 said:
People Magazine Investigates: The Accused----Dr Jeffrey MacDonald--" The Real Story"


UGH, another bogus tv special trying to make these convicted monsters 'innocent.'

This was so one sided. So much of the states evidence was ignored, and they tried to run with the hippies carrying candles and chanting 'kill the pigs.'
Click to expand...

Ugh is right. I watched a little and couldn't stomach any more. Just like the recent "documentaries" on Scott Peterson and the Menendez brothers. A very unfortunate trend.
 
katydid23 said:
Great first post...and :welcome: to WS.

His story makes no sense on so many levels.

Who is going to go begin attacking little girls, while their big strong soldier father is asleep on the couch?

But there is one thing that has never made any sense to me at all. And the jurors probably had a similar reaction---to one glaring problem.

I know with all of my heart, that if intruders broke into my home, and tried to kill our babies, my husband would be DEAD before the children were. No way that he would have been alive at the end of his family being murdered in their beds.

If he wanted to make the story believable, he should have gone harder with his own injuries, and just killed himself with then and there...
Click to expand...

I remember hearing about a man who said something similar at a town meeting when there was a series of rapes in a community. There's no way he'd allow his wife to be raped, he would die before he'd let it happen, and no man would stand by and allow it to happen either.

That man spoke at a meeting about the East Area Rapist. Eventually EAR came into his home, bound the man, and raped his wife.
 
PaulR said:
I remember hearing about a man who said something similar at a town meeting when there was a series of rapes in a community. There's no way he'd allow his wife to be raped, he would die before he'd let it happen, and no man would stand by and allow it to happen either.

That man spoke at a meeting about the East Area Rapist. Eventually EAR came into his home, bound the man, and raped his wife.
Click to expand...

Well, then EAR was smarter than the 4 alleged intruders that came into MacDonalds home because they didn't bother to tie him up.

And there were FOUR stoned Hippies, all high on drugs, but not one of them left any DNA or any footprints or fingerprints behind. The only bloody footprints were MacDonald's, mixed with his victims blood in different rooms.

MacDonald's blood was not found in the living room, where he claimed he was stabbed by the ice pick. But his blood was found in the bathroom sink. Where investigators say he stood, looking into the mirror, so he could carefully stab himself in the right places.
 
Here's what else makes absolutely no sense in his story: He claimed when he got to his wife, she had a knife/ice pick in her chest and he pulled it out and started CPR. A doctor, of all people, would know that you don't pull out an object impaled in a chest---you secure it. It acts as a plug and retards the bleeding. Pulling it out and then starting CPR would cause blood to shoot out of the wound and accelerate the bleeding (assuming she was still alive and had a heart beat) . I've followed the case fairly closely but I've never heard that brought up. Makes no sense.
 
Rocco said:
Here's what else makes absolutely no sense in his story: He claimed when he got to his wife, she had a knife/ice pick in her chest and he pulled it out and started CPR. A doctor, of all people, would know that you don't pull out an object impaled in a chest---you secure it. It acts as a plug and retards the bleeding. Pulling it out and then starting CPR would cause blood to shoot out of the wound and accelerate the bleeding (assuming she was still alive and had a heart beat) . I've followed the case fairly closely but I've never heard that brought up. Makes no sense.
Click to expand...

But he had to pull it out---he needed to stab himself to set up his alibi. Besides, his wife was dead already so he wasn't worried about spurting...
 
Awful, awful crime. He was not half as clever as he thought he was. Evil man.
 
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