NC - Shaniya Davis, 5, Allegedly sold by mother 11/10/09 #12

Patty G said:

You don't have to have legal custody to make the decision to make a phone call to inform the father of what happened regarding the conversation between AD and the aunt regarding Shaniya.

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Do we know that there were no phone calls made?

What I am trying to say is no matter how many phone calls were made or what was said or who he brought to her house to get the child back SHE DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE THE CHILD BACK until they went to court do you know how long it can take a child custody case to go to court? It took mine A YEAR AND A HALF, we were married six months prior to our court hearing!

My point is this.....It would not have changed the outcome, she had this child in her hands and she was doing to her and with her what she wanted. and there was NOTHING that this father, short of kidnapping her himself, could have done to save her!

I gotta go! :banghead:

I am just shocked that people are making excuses about "custody"..

if it was me...I would be over there....I would get the cops there, the social workers there

The people going in and out of that trailer were felons..that alone should be enough to get some sort of emergency order

just think....Shaniya was not snatched by some unknown stranger...nor were the dad's side of the family just suddenly alerted to this danger when the momster reported her missing...they had known for at least 2 weeks that the slob nasty egg donor was keeping her...her very words seem to be a threat

I don't care what you have to do....they should have done it

How about driving out there and making a scene...let the cops come...they would have found a little girl hurt and hurting.....they would have walked in on felons consorting, drugs....maybe even a known sex offender...bring it on

Some seem to feel that when one KNOWS a kid is in an unsafe environment, with unsafe people, there is nothing to be done....sorry I don't buy that

and if the cops and social workers didn't do the job...I hear there are lots of biker gange in NC>>> frankly I would have gone out to a road house and hired some...or gone to a gun store and armed up myself

Casey Anthony had legal rights to Caylee.....
I bet Susan and James Baker had legal rights to Paul and Nina years ago
and on and on

the legal system regarding kids is so badly broken that people have to act

IF actions had been taken maybe Shaynia could be in counseling now and the monsters would be in jail
or better yet....if action had been taken earlier the rights of the pig Antoinette could be terminated years ago

Muffet said:

I might be reading too much into things, but I sensed some uncomfortable dynamics might be going on between the daddy and the aunt and, perhaps, others.

The strongest was the impression that the aunt was not OK with the dad's decision to let Shaniya go there at all to begin with. She outright said she was very uncomfortable with it, didn't approve of the egg-donor, said she wasn't as forgiving as her brother, emphasized her special relationship and how it had been stolen, and kept repeating that parents shouldn't turn our backs on our children.

Where is the father's fiance? Is there one? Or was that a false report?

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ITA

Exactly the Aunt is breaking my heart her pain is like a loving mothers. I think she saw AD for what she really was. Also in the presser a reporter asked the dad about what his older daughter said about how he knew AD used drugs and he did not want to talk about it.

Tom'sGirl said:

I believe his fiancé was at his side during the first presser along with his sister on the other side.

The articles state he has three children, but in his late wifes Obit it states his wife leaves behind two sons, and two daughters???

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Yeah, it just says, three children:

B, 20;
C, 17; and
C, 13

I have no idea what happened with the fourth. It also says his children "have mostly stayed with their grandparents" since their mother died.

lurkeyloo said:

We need to find out the date she was withdrawn from school. This would most likely be when the sexual abuse started. They could not afford for her to go to school and tell. KWIM?

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I would like to know about the school also...it seems to have been a school in the area where her dad lived...she was withdrawn (by who?) sometime in october

I still want to know how the dad/aunt could even enroll her in school without some sort of paperwork/agreement?? That is needed to enroll a child

I hope someone from Fayetteville will shed light on this

jnTexas said:

Oct 9th and 2 days of clothes makes since. Oct 9th is a friday. If my kids are going to my moms on friday night I will send 2 changes of clothes for the weekend.
Oct 31st makes no sense at all it was halloween.

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Based on the child being dropped off on the 9th of Oct like the Dad said, and 2 days later the momster telling Aunt Cary she will never see the child again,,,wouldnt that give the Dad and Aunt time and hink factor, to realize this child was not in school,,thereby starting the process of finding out what in the h3ll was going on in that trailer? Just saying

danni said:

Do we know that there were no phone calls made?

What I am trying to say is no matter how many phone calls were made or what was said or who he brought to her house to get the child back SHE DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE THE CHILD BACK until they went to court do you know how long it can take a child custody case to go to court? It took mine A YEAR AND A HALF, we were married six months prior to our court hearing!

My point is this.....It would not have changed the outcome, she had this child in her hands and she was doing to her and with her what she wanted. and there was NOTHING that this father, short of kidnapping her himself, could have done to save her!

I gotta go! :banghead:

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Well if that is the case we might as well all just give up..."nothing we can do"....hello...drop a dime....call the cops, social workers....the drug squad...
call Antoinettes sorry job and demand that she be drug tested

call social services....call code enforcement ....call Nancy Grace

why not go to the media before all this occurred?? Maybe this will be a good lesson to other people to not sit back and expect the best from horrible people

Muffet said:

Yeah, it just says, three children:

Byron III, 20;
Cheyenne, 17; and
13-year-old Chivas

I have no idea what happened with the fourth. It also says his children "have mostly stayed with their grandparents" since their mother died.

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Maybe one of the other children was not his (mom's from a previous relationship...?)

LogicalMinds said:

Well if that is the case we might as well all just give up..."nothing we can do"....hello...drop a dime....call the cops, social workers....the drug squad...
call Antoinettes sorry job and demand that she be drug tested

call social services....call code enforcement ....call Nancy Grace

why not go to the media before all this occurred?? Maybe this will be a good lesson to other people to not sit back and expect the best from horrible people

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BBM- This can be the only good that comes from this. jmo

not_my_kids said:

If McNeil is the only one speaking out against the creature in court, then any defense attorney is going to say that he is only doing it to minimize his involvement. He has something to gain by making the jury believe that creature was the one behind it all and he was manipulated.

Just pray there is DNA, that will make that all a moot point.

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I had to walk away from this thread for a couple hours ........ clear my brain and calm my heart a bit.

What you speak of in your post is almost exactly what me and my husband have been discussing.

When I got back to the computer my husband had just come home from work and asked me if there was any new updates on the killer.

We sat down together in front of the computer and I went back a few pages and clicked on every link that was posted so that he and I could catch up.

Then, the analytical man that he is, he started asking me questions....saying he was playing devil's advocate.

His questions had me questioning this whole sad case.

The information about ED (Egg Donor) prostituting her daughter came from one person? MAM?
Just how reliable is MAM or was he trying to squeeze in a deal after being seen on camera in the motel?

If the only source of information about ED selling her daughter is coming from other low-lifes, how can we be sure there is any truth to that?

ED didn't appear to be an addict when Mr. Amity saw her in court.......no licking lips, no shaking, no excessive blinking...etc.

So I got to thinking....NOT that in any way do I absolve ED for her daughter's death, but what if, what if ED had seen so many cases on TV where the parents of a missing child end up on easy street.....fund raisers, etc. and she decided it would be an easy way to make a few extra bucks....either from the general public or Shanyia's Dad.

Maybe her crime is asking her friend to take the baby away for awhile so that she can garner some sympathy from the public.
Something goes horribly wrong and MAM does some quick thinking and comes up with the story about the selling of the baby because after all, he doesn't want to be in this alone, right?

These are just some of the things me and hubby were batting around while watching all the videos/news/vigil links.

I guess the thing that bothers me is that AD said that they'd never see Shaniya again. I know everyone's different, but I'd be all "hells to the no!" and drive the relatively short distance. I used to live in that area; it's really not that far. Just on the pretense of delivering more clothes, some favorite toys, etc. This child, for all intents and purposes, was undergoing a change of custody, per her father. Surely she'd need things or ask for things. Surely they'd insist on bringing more stuff down, even if they had to make excuses. "I just wanted to help you out by bringing more clothes, toys, her favorite book..."

I'm so sorry if this sounds classist or elitist, but if I had a child that had been living in comfort and in this case relative luxury, I'd have a hard time leaving her there without more oversight. It's not the trailer thing. Lots of fine people live in trailers. But it was rundown and since it was a one-night stand, they couldn't have known what the people were like around there.

I'm not blaming the dad and aunt. Goodness knows they must be absolutely distraught and miserable. I just think we're missing something. Maybe AD had something to hold over his head. Maybe she made some scary threats that he didn't take seriously and now he can't bring himself to revisit it. I don't doubt his grief and his innocence, but there are two sides not meeting up here. The image of the doting father and aunt who lavished so much love on Shaniya, and the fact that she was left at a ramshackle, dirty trailer with only a couple days' of clothes and no one drove down there. Did AD request some space to make it work? For you parents out there, would you be able to grant that space?

Updated

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/6435879/

"Police said one issue holding up any charges is who would have jurisdiction in a murder case – prosecutors must prove where a slaying occurred. Lee County authorities have referred all questions to the Fayetteville Police Department."


""I woke up this morning, and my daughter was not in the house. I don't know if she walked out. I don't know what going on, but she's not here," Davis said.

Later in the nearly three-minute call, her voice is completely calm as she noted twice that Shaniya knew how to unlock the front door.

"I'm telling you she knows how to unlock it. I'm hoping that she didn't unlock it and walk out," Davis told the dispatcher."

I think there were many things that went wrong. I also understand that although it seems reasonable that you can get a child from a bad situation, that was up to Dad - the Aunt had no legal rights, and if Dad wasn't on the birth certificate (do we know?), he probably wouldn't either until he proved paternity.

The Aunt was helpless in all of this. And even for Dad - they were dependent on the good will of AD until (if) the state intervened. Unfortunately, too many kids are left with parents in horrible conditions. It shouldn't happen, but the bio parents rights seem to trump the best interest of the child too often, IMO.

Did they call to check on her? If they tried and they refused to answer, someone should have gone over and checked things out. At least make sure she's in school. I tend to think this was poor judgment (not that they expected this, but still - a precarious situation, anyway). That doesn't mean Dad deserved what happened to his daughter, of course. I'm just sayin'.

southernvagirl said:

Based on the child being dropped off on the 9th of Oct like the Dad said, and 2 days later the momster telling Aunt Cary she will never see the child again,,,wouldnt that give the Dad and Aunt time and hink factor, to realize this child was not in school,,thereby starting the process of finding out what in the h3ll was going on in that trailer? Just saying

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It should. Thinking there is more to this than we know. The m's comment should have sent up a red flag fast, and for whatever reason (?) it didn't. Why?

danni said:

Do we know that there were no phone calls made?

What I am trying to say is no matter how many phone calls were made or what was said or who he brought to her house to get the child back SHE DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE THE CHILD BACK until they went to court do you know how long it can take a child custody case to go to court? It took mine A YEAR AND A HALF, we were married six months prior to our court hearing!

My point is this.....It would not have changed the outcome, she had this child in her hands and she was doing to her and with her what she wanted. and there was NOTHING that this father, short of kidnapping her himself, could have done to save her!

I gotta go! :banghead:

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Yes, I am aware of child custody, the court system and all that it entails. All I know is "if someone told me I couldn't see my niece again" and she had been living with me for all those years, I would fight, crawl, call in the National Guard, DCFS and more, but first call the father. :banghead:

Thank you Patty G for posting Aunt Carey's press video. I wanted to hear what she said but HLN cut it off.
Between the photos at the hotel and hearing the Aunt's statement I'm going to have to take a break for a while. I can't quit crying.
RIP sweet angel Shaniya!

Here's a great OT article about "Is the Killer the Caller?". I don't have time myself tonight, but ya'll should analyze SOS's (upgraded from just a Pile of S) 911 call:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/

Exerpt: "Fortunately, 911 calls are recorded. Therefore, investigators have access to a transcript, the actual call, and, thus, important evidence. They can examine both the words and the tone of voice. An analysis of the calls can provide investigators with immediate insight and interviewing strategies to help solve homicide cases."

Hi - this is my first post - I have been a guest/lurker for awhile now. This case is breaking my heart.

I think that the pain of Shaniya's father and aunt is palpable, and I can't even begin to imagine the depths of what they are going through. At the same time, however, there are several inconsistencies in the information about the time Shaniya spent with AD that aren't adding up for me.

First, Dad says Shaniya went to ADs on October 9, Aunt says, October 31.

Second, Dad says, Shaniya was going to stay three weeks, then AD asked for another weekend. Aunt says, she was there for a weekend and then AD told her that, she (the aunt) was never going to see Shaniya again and there was nothing she (the aunt) could do about it.

Third, the school says that she was withdrawn in October. Dad says, he didn't know that she wasn't going to school. Aunt was listed as the guardian on the school's records. (IMO, guardian on school records would have to be aware of Shaniya being withdrawn from school)

There are several possible explanations for some or all of these inconsistencies. Off the top of my head:
- mistaken news reports (always a possibiliy, as we have seen).
- aunt was not relaying the trouble going on with AD to the Dad, who was out of town because.... she didn't want to worry him? She felt they couldn't do anything until he got back? She obviously didn't think the situation would result in any imminent harm to Shaniya.... This is a bit odd as well though, since the most recent reports are that the aunt was much more suspicious of AD than the dad, and wasn't the dad phoning Shaniya while away? And if he wasn't allowed to talk to her (by AD) wouldn't he be concerned that something was up.

There is something here, like so much that has to do with this case, that is not adding up.... JMO.

PS - I know that I haven't provided links to alot of the information summarized above (and haven't figured out how to yet), and much of it is from my memory of different information that has been posted, so if I have been inaccurate, I apologize in advance.

I don't think anyone needed to confess for cops to find the body. The "inside" information may be from their own investigating. It just takes time.

All they needed to do was follow the surveillance tapes, noticing the direction of travel from the hotel (or start looking in both directions). Along the way there are probably many opportunities showing the car traveling past businesses (gas station, fast food, grocery, etc..). Then they should notice a larger gap of time between one camera and the next indicating that the car stopped for a period of time somewhere inbetween. This "gap" would become the search area. (And it makes sense that they had a fairly large chunk of road to search since he would choose a rural stretch without any cameras)

Presented with this info and knowing they would find her, perhaps MAM gave in and told them more specifics. But they didnt really need him to eventually find her body. They just needed to follow her trail. The starting point is most important and they had that.

I am really so emotionally distraught over this case. I start to cry every time I think about that poor little girl. -trillian

I am a stepmother to a 13 year old girl whose Mom probably has Borderline Personality Disorder. In my case, the mother has full custody of the child.

Over the years, I have had to watch my husband in his interactions with his ex-wife, and it has been heartbreaking. There were a number of times when I begged my husband to report her emotionally, verbally and sometime physically abusive behavior to the authorities and to try to get custody of his daughter but he never would-- he would not go against the mother.

Sometimes these men who get themselves involved with women like my husband's ex or like (God forbid) Momster, they just cannot imagine that the mother of their children can really be that bad. It's like they want their kids to have this "perfect mother" so badly that they make seemingly irrational decisions regarding the care of their kids. IMO the Aunt was probably helpless in such a situation -- just as I was as a stepmother to a girls whose mother was destroying her spirit, day after day.

In this case, though, I would have gone over to Momster's house and gotten the little girl back -- as I would imagine that Momster would probably not gone to the authorities to fight it. But, that is in hindsight. I do not imagine the Aunt or the Father knew what was really going on. Sad... so very sad.