GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #7

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In my mind there are two possible perps who won't go away.
G.R and M.W pop up time again. Just can't logically time either of them to Canynge Road 9.p.m.

Not enough clues left in the flat to suggest she was there long (from what we know)

Huhm:waitasec:
 
Here's a hypothetical ...

What if the victim had contacted her drug-supplier. He was busy. She said she desperately needed some stuff - Christmas was looming, elderly rellies and parents' friends and neighbours and then a trip north after that and not wanting to buy from strangers because you never knew what you were getting, etc.

The drug supplier is reluctant. He reminds the victim she still owes from last month. It will have to be cash, he says. She giggles and says he knows she's good for it and will catch up soon -- just lots of expenses at the moment with a new flat etc. and now Christmas and the trip north, etc.

He warns her -- 'I'm not kidding. I'm not a charity. If I don't get paid, the guys behind me don't get paid and that means they take a baseball bat to my knees' sort of thing

She says, ' Great. I'll be home in ten. We've some money put aside for the rent. I'll use that, don't worry '

He ducks away from the party and gets to her flat. She's already kicked off her boots, removed her jacket and is taking a sip of cider when she hears him pull up at the kerb. Or she sees him through the front windows

She nips down to his car and puts her hand through the window. He passes the packet to her. She calls out 'See you after Christmas ' and heads back to the flat. Maybe she'd thrust some notes into his hand or dropped them on the seat of the car. He counts and there's only half payment

Angry, he gets out of the car and follows her to the flat. If he's quick, she doesn't have time to close the door. Or, maybe he knocks and, still chuckling, she opens the door

But he's angrier than she expects. Maybe he's had a few drinks and isn't as controlled or easy going as the person she thought she knew. Whatever the case, she only has minutes to live

Maybe she tries to reason with him and/or jolly him out of his rage ? But he's heard it all before and he's had enough. Stupid girl thinks it's a joke, but she's taken advantage of the friendship one time too many, he says

Maybe she tries to make a run for it. He's taller, stronger, jerks her back with his arm, around her throat. She goes limp. He lets go and she falls to the floor. He tries to clear his head. Takes her pulse, maybe. Impossible. He hadn't intended to hurt her !

Five minutes pass. Thank god her boyfriend's away. Did anyone see him come in ? How could he know ?

He grabs her, lifts her up. Maybe at that point, he intends driving flat out to the hospital. How did this happen, he's asking himself

He quietly pulls the flat door closed, carries her to the car, lays her in the rear seat maybe and takes off. At traffic lights, he turns around, puts his fingers to her throat again, seeking a pulse. He's in a cold sweat. His life and career are in ruins. Over. Family shamed, friends will shun him. The lights change and he drives off again. He calls her name over and over but not a sound comes from her

He keeps driving. Can't turn up at the hospital with a dead body. How will he explain it ? No one will believe him

Before he knows it, he's out in the country somewhere. He has to do something. If he's stopped by the police or runs into someone he knows, he's finished. At the first chance, he pulls over. Can't see any lights nearby and no cars approaching in either direction. He pulls her from the car and rolls her into bushes and takes off

Then he realises that like an idiot, he left her bag and phone at the flat. Can't get back in. Doesn't want to go anywhere near the place. Has to get back to the party and be seen. But the police will find her phone and know she contacted him. So as soon as he can, he sends a fake message to her to say he didn't get her earlier call, sorry

A week of televised appeals and frantic back and forth phone and texts from friends etc. later, he knows he has to do something. It might take months before anyone finds her body. He knows he'll break before then. So he borrows a car ? Returns and moves the body to where she'll soon be found ? And when he lowers her near the quarry entrance, he brushes her cheek with a last goodbye, or maybe a tear falls on her, or a drop of terrified sweat ?

Or maybe that all happened the night she died when he placed her near the quarry ?

Just a hypothetical, just another theory, not intended as an accusation



Edit: An alternative: maybe the victim's phone call to him was actually code for ' I'm here. Meet me outside' ?

So they have their conversation in person and she tells him she needs some stuff

She doesn't have the payment on her but has some money at the flat

He says I'll drive you. And she left the pizza in his car. He later disposed of it

He stays in the car while she goes inside for the money. In those few minutes, she takes off her coat, kicks off her boots and takes a swig from the cider before returning to the car with whatever money she's able to find

.... then the story continues as outlined prior to the edit ?
 
So is there any sign of any other car arriving at JY house that evening do we know? Is there any CCTV footage at all?

The pizza was removed because if the the perb had left the pizza there the police may have known there would have been someone else there. perhaps due to the size of it. Also was JY a vegetarian, it was a vegetarian pizza?

Looking at the reconstruction JY was reading the label on the pizza before buying.

Why did she go to Waitrose, Tesco and Bargain booze - very odd!
 
That could explain some things but, how did MW remove the body? When? Did he go back to the party? Or did he stay the night at the flat and remove the body the following day? Would he have taken the risk of GR returning eraly and finding him there? Does he ahve a car? And if he had been driving, had he been drinking too? Would the risk of being caught drink driving not prove too much?

Got to say the risks involved in moving a body to your car on that street are enormous. Not something you can do in a hurry, and certainly not when someone is likely to walk past, or looking out of a window i.e 9-10 ish.
Doing so is sheer lunacy.

With that in mind, and not wanting to sound like an experienced killer lol.
I'd try plan to do that move as stealthily as possible. I would choose 3-4 a.m when most people are asleep.
I really wouldn't want to carry the body in my arms. You wouldn't want to be seen of course.

Also another factor is how near can you get the car to the gate? From what I've seen that road looks fairly full of parked cars, that's going on last years street view, and four year old aerial images.

I'd want to edge that body out slowly, dragging it along isn't good. but sliding it on something quiet. Not a wheelie bin or anything to make a noise. I'd want to be low to the ground moving that body to be hid behind the bushes. Once at the gate you can have a good survey for faces at windows, anyone about on the street.

Then quietly pull your car up to the nearest spot if you can't get to the gate.

That's my opinion how risky that move is. Certainly not something you do in two mins at 9.p.m.
 
What is going on with this case?

Where are the DNA results?
Or is that info another lie?

The Crimewatch reconstruction needs to broadcast new information. Showing JY shopping will achieve nothing. Everyone knows that already.

It is obvious she never ate the pizza because she didn't have time to cook it.
She opened a bottle of cider, took a drink; enter the killer.

The murderer didn't muck about. Killers never do once their mind is made up.
This murderess act was over in minutes.
You can bet it was planned like a top ten Murder Mystery either. Perpetrators sometimes get lucky. That's why there are thousands of cases of unsolved killings.
 
Here's a hypothetical ...

What if the victim had contacted her drug-supplier. He was busy. She said she desperately needed some stuff - Christmas was looming, elderly rellies and parents' friends and neighbours and then a trip north after that and not wanting to buy from strangers because you never knew what you were getting, etc.

The drug supplier is reluctant. He reminds the victim she still owes from last month. It will have to be cash, he says. She giggles and says he knows she's good for it and will catch up soon -- just lots of expenses at the moment with a new flat etc. and now Christmas and the trip north, etc.

He warns her -- 'I'm not kidding. I'm not a charity. If I don't get paid, the guys behind me don't get paid and that means they take a baseball bat to my knees' sort of thing

She says, ' Great. I'll be home in ten. We've some money put aside for the rent. I'll use that, don't worry '

He ducks away from the party and gets to her flat. She's already kicked off her boots, removed her jacket and is taking a sip of cider when she hears him pull up at the kerb. Or she sees him through the front windows

She nips down to his car and puts her hand through the window. He passes the packet to her. She calls out 'See you after Christmas ' and heads back to the flat. Maybe she'd thrust some notes into his hand or dropped them on the seat of the car. He counts and there's only half payment

Angry, he gets out of the car and follows her to the flat. If he's quick, she doesn't have time to close the door. Or, maybe he knocks and, still chuckling, she opens the door

But he's angrier than she expects. Maybe he's had a few drinks and isn't as controlled or easy going as the person she thought she knew. Whatever the case, she only has minutes to live

Maybe she tries to reason with him and/or jolly him out of his rage ? But he's heard it all before and he's had enough. Stupid girl thinks it's a joke, but she's taken advantage of the friendship one time too many, he says

Maybe she tries to make a run for it. He's taller, stronger, jerks her back with his arm, around her throat. She goes limp. He lets go and she falls to the floor. He tries to clear his head. Takes her pulse, maybe. Impossible. He hadn't intended to hurt her !

Five minutes pass. Thank god her boyfriend's away. Did anyone see him come in ? How could he know ?

He grabs her, lifts her up. Maybe at that point, he intends driving flat out to the hospital. How did this happen, he's asking himself

He quietly pulls the flat door closed, carries her to the car, lays her in the rear seat maybe and takes off. At traffic lights, he turns around, puts his fingers to her throat again, seeking a pulse. He's in a cold sweat. His life and career are in ruins. Over. Family shamed, friends will shun him. The lights change and he drives off again. He calls her name over and over but not a sound comes from her

He keeps driving. Can't turn up at the hospital with a dead body. How will he explain it ? No one will believe him

Before he knows it, he's out in the country somewhere. He has to do something. If he's stopped by the police or runs into someone he knows, he's finished. At the first chance, he pulls over. Can't see any lights nearby and no cars approaching in either direction. He pulls her from the car and rolls her into bushes and takes off

Then he realises that like an idiot, he left her bag and phone at the flat. Can't get back in. Doesn't want to go anywhere near the place. Has to get back to the party and be seen. But the police will find her phone and know she contacted him. So as soon as he can, he sends a fake message to her to say he didn't get her earlier call, sorry

A week of televised appeals and frantic back and forth phone and texts from friends etc. later, he knows he has to do something. It might take months before anyone finds her body. He knows he'll break before then. So he borrows a car ? Returns and moves the body to where she'll soon be found ? And when he lowers her near the quarry entrance, he brushes her cheek with a last goodbye, or maybe a tear falls on her, or a drop of terrified sweat ?

Or maybe that all happened the night she died when he placed her near the quarry ?

Just a hypothetical, just another theory, not intended as an accusation

Sorry but, no, no and no. I think for one, we have to put forward scenarios that are plausible based on the information that we have. The problem I have with this is that a lot of it (the majority) is seemingly unfounded speculation. This theory is just to0 wild, for want of a better word.

1. Drugs - no indication that she took drugs. No indication that MW took drugs let alone was a drug dealer. Someone - Zhivago? was doing some sleuthing re. his proffession.

2. I just can't imagine him drink driving somehow, to urgently get drugs to her, when she's behind on payments.

3. If he was her dealer, why is there no indication of regular communication between them over the past 18 months?

4. You don't say what happened to the pizza? He had his wits about him to remove it but not her belongings.

Again, I say no. Of all the possible scenarios that have so far been put forward, this has got to be the least likely.

Editing to add that I still haven't eliminated him from my list of suspects. Just can't yet imagine a plausible scenario. Trying to keep an open mind.
 
@ Phillb

He could have swung up into the driveway of the flats. Would have been close to JY's flat that way

Or, if anyone had seen a guy carrying a girl at that point in time, they'd think it was just another case of too much party indulgence

No-one's come forth to say they've seen anything though, which is often the way
 
Here's the Mirror's new article re: Jo having not eaten the pizza, as was discussed earlier:

Joanna Yeates did not eat the pizza she was seen buying on her way home just before she went missing, police have confirmed.

Avon and Somerset Police said tests on Miss Yeates' body concluded she had not eaten the mozzarella, tomato and pesto pizza before she was found dead on Christmas Day three miles from her flat.

Detectives said Miss Yeates had made it home to her flat in Canynge Road, Clifton because her shoes, coat, mobile phone, purse and keys were found there - although the pizza, the wrapping and its box are still missing.
---
During the filming of the reconstruction the actress playing Miss Yeates entered the Tesco Express on Regent Street in Clifton village.

She was wearing the same cream-coloured coat as Miss Yeates was wearing on the night she disappeared.

She also had a black rucksack and was carrying two plastic bags - including a white bag, which held the bottles of cider she bought previously at Bargain Booze, and a black bag of which the contents have not been revealed, but which police say are not significant.
much more of it, a good overview of the day's events, at
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...e-went-missing-police-reveal-115875-22859313/
 
@ Phillb

He could have swung up into the driveway of the flats. Would have been close to JY's flat that way

Or, if anyone had seen a guy carrying a girl at that point in time, they'd think it was just another case of too much party indulgence

No-one's come forth to say they've seen anything though, which is often the way
Yeah he could have got away with the drunk girl thing at the time, perhaps not putting her in the boot of the car of course. But once the missing persons call went up, or murder.

It's game over. Far too risky IMO.

I too don't but the theory there was any big drug thing going on either. It doesn't fit for me.
 
In response to discussion about people with black hats in the shops, I don't think it's possible. The person that did this had a car, and I doubt that person was parking and entering all of the shops that Joanna entered. If she was spotted on her way home from the pub, then the perp followed her slowly in a vehicle, perhaps doubling around the block now and then so as not to be noticed.

Regarding the brother's friend, GW, he was at a Christmas party at 8:20 and 9:20 when he texted her. I'm assuming that his cell records and locations were verified. That is not enough time for him to go to her apartment, attack her, and then return to the party. It is possible that she was attacked later that 9:20, although everything at this point (screams, pizza that was not eaten) point to the attack happening around 9 pm.
 
@laserdisc10

Carrying a deadweight is pretty impossible, so to carry a body and make it look like it were still alive is unlikely. Weekend at Bernies wasn't very accurate regarding the removal of a dead body!
 
Sorry to keep on but I somehow do not think its GR.

Here's why. If I was Mrs Yates I certainly would not be able to stand next to him in my appeal to the public. She must have considered him a suspect in light of the current evidence, unless she had been told that his alibi was completely substaniated.

I know he is rather inapprpriate in his dress code etc. but that does not make him a killer even though the evidence against him on here is rather compelling.

There again I could change my mind tomorrow.
 
Sorry but, no, no and no. I think for one, we have to put forward scenarios that are plausible based on the information that we have. The problem I have with this is that a lot of it (the majority) is seemingly unfounded speculation. This theory is just to0 wild, for want of a better word.

1. Drugs - no indication that she took drugs. No indication that MW took drugs let alone was a drug dealer. Someone - Zhivago? was doing some sleuthing re. his proffession.

2. I just can't imagine him drink driving somehow, to urgently get drugs to her, when she's behind on payments.

3. If he was her dealer, why is there no indication of regular communication between them over the past 18 months?

4. You don't say what happened to the pizza? He had his wits about him to remove it but not her belongings.

Again, I say no. Of all the possible scenarios that have so far been put forward, this has got to be the least likely.



We often say 'no' when we're fixated on something else

Everything I've written is entirely possible

In fact, it's a lot more plausible than trying to convince that the guy who loved her for some reason killed her, yet there's no sign of a struggle on the body and police said no sign of forced entry or struggle

As many here will remind you, they'd been in communication via texts, online, FB etc. during those 18 months. And we've no reason to believe they hadn't met. Who said they hadn't met -- a suspect ? We don't know what's fact and what isn't

There's been no suggestion of drugs in the same way we don't even know what she was wearing when she died or when her body was discovered

We know next to nothing. But what we do know is, apart from her killer perhaps, MW may well have been the last person who spoke with her

So all theories are equally valid, seeing as we're fishing in the dark with the crumbs fed us by the media and LE

Pays to keep an open mind, don't you think ?
 
Do we know if she was actually dead by the time MW texted?

Does anyone thinks its possible that strangulation could have been an accident!!!

I still wouldn't rule out a 'sexual game' gone wrong...... in fact would account for a lot imho

Got to say the risks involved in moving a body to your car on that street are enormous. Not something you can do in a hurry, and certainly not when someone is likely to walk past, or looking out of a window i.e 9-10 ish.
Doing so is sheer lunacy.

With that in mind, and not wanting to sound like an experienced killer lol.
I'd try plan to do that move as stealthily as possible. I would choose 3-4 a.m when most people are asleep.
I really wouldn't want to carry the body in my arms. You wouldn't want to be seen of course.

Also another factor is how near can you get the car to the gate? From what I've seen that road looks fairly full of parked cars, that's going on last years street view, and four year old aerial images.

I'd want to edge that body out slowly, dragging it along isn't good. but sliding it on something quiet. Not a wheelie bin or anything to make a noise. I'd want to be low to the ground moving that body to be hid behind the bushes. Once at the gate you can have a good survey for faces at windows, anyone about on the street.

Then quietly pull your car up to the nearest spot if you can't get to the gate.

That's my opinion how risky that move is. Certainly not something you do in two mins at 9.p.m.

like a snowboard/ski wheelie bag? ......

snowboard_bag_wheelie.jpg


oh dear, I wish I hadn't mentioned snowboarding....
 
Where does it state that her and MW had regular contact during the 18 months? Sorry I can't find this information so must have missed this?
 
Sorry to keep on but I somehow do not think its GR.

Here's why. If I was Mrs Yates I certainly would not be able to stand next to him in my appeal to the public. She must have considered him a suspect in light of the current evidence, unless she had been told that his alibi was completely substaniated.

I know he is rather inapprpriate in his dress code etc. but that does not make him a killer even though the evidence against him on here is rather compelling.

There again I could change my mind tomorrow.

I totally see where you're coming from. The only thing I can think is:

1. JY parents burning desire to see the perp caught and prosecuted is so strong it's giving them the strength and driving them to do things that you wouldn't have thought possible. Justice for JY. I think the've been so strong and dignified, making that statement last night like that must have taken real courage.

2. Rubbish, I've forgotten what I was going to say..:banghead: Will try and remember but it was very compelling... take my word for it. I remember!!! CAn't get the true lies video out of my head where the victims sister made appeals with the husband (perp) all along suspecting him. In the end she made the taped phone call that led to his confession. The desire for justice was so powerful that she was able to sit there right next to him through those appeals.
 
Good point Phillb. And perhaps one of the reasons LE are confident she got home.


They couldn't be because her prints would be on the bottle at point of purchase. It could confirm only that she touched the bottle at some point.
 
I could easily be persuaded the 'constriction of the throat' could have been an accident, as I've said several times

Not for one second do I believe it had anything at all to do with 'sexual games'
 
Luna 15
I still wouldn't rule out a 'sexual game' gone wrong...... in fact would account for a lot imho

Yes that was exactly what I was thinking Luna. And I feel that is the answer but who with!!! JMO
 
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