17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

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TonyGatto said:
His fingerprints are not in any database. He's never been arrested. Police don't just put something in an official report just by using a reverse directory. It would be hanky-panky if the original report did not contain it -- but the report was updated later without being noted that is was updated -- or -- they knew who he was at 3am and didn't contact his father and then feigned ignorance later in the morning when they met with him. I'm not saying any of this is fact -- I'm just speculating. Something isn't right here -- we can all agree with that.
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There are other ways besides an arrest that can get you in the database. We do not know everything about TM or if he ever applied for any program or job where he had to be printed.

And how would they contact his father at 3 am if his father was staying with his girlfriend? How would LE have that number?

LE does not do death notifications of children by calling a parent at 3 am and saying MAYBE we have your sons body here.
 
katydid23 said:
Yes, I DO know that a person has to have their prints on file. I put that POSSIBILITY out there because we don't really know if there MIGHT be a reason his prints would be on file.

As for the reverse directory, that makes sense to me. IF they had his Miami address, and it was 3 am, why would they call and wake up a parent at 3 am if they were not yet CERTAIN of the teens true identity?

And they do not do death notifications of a child by telephone like that. They would have sent someone out there in person the next morning , imo.

They went and visited the father immediately upon hearing of the missing person filing that morning. How else was LE supposed to know the kids parent was in that town at the time? They had a Miami address and they were not even sure it was the right ID.
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You'd think the parents would have called the police if he didn't come home that night...could that be how they knew?
 
katydid23 said:
There are other ways besides an arrest that can get you in the database. We do not know everything about TM or if he ever applied for any program or job where he had to be printed.

And how would they contact his father at 3 am if his father was staying with his girlfriend? How would LE have that number?

LE does not do death notifications of children by calling a parent at 3 am and saying MAYBE we have your sons body here.
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You actually think they printed his dead body, matched it against some still undisclosed database? So what do you make of all this?
 
katydid23 said:
Yes, I DO know that a person has to have their prints on file. I put that POSSIBILITY out there because we don't really know if there MIGHT be a reason his prints would be on file.

As for the reverse directory, that makes sense to me. IF they had his Miami address, and it was 3 am, why would they call and wake up a parent at 3 am if they were not yet CERTAIN of the teens true identity?

And they do not do death notifications of a child by telephone like that. They would have sent someone out there in person the next morning , imo.

They went and visited the father immediately upon hearing of the missing person filing that morning. How else was LE supposed to know the kids parent was in that town at the time? They had a Miami address and they were not even sure it was the right ID.
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Yea, sort of like they did when they finally managed to notify Tracy Martin about Trayvon's murder when the officer pulled out his phone and showed Tracy a picture of Trayvon laying face down on the ground with his eyes opened, saliva coming out of his mouth, and a tear on his cheek? <modsnip>


~jmo~
 
Horace Finklestein said:
A violent criminal side? GZ has no convictions, and may have been acting in self defense. <modsnip>
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--she's referring to her EX, not george.

"waltzing matilda"--"IMO, it sounds like GZ has two sides to his personality like my ex. He projected a good image to his friends and co-workers but wasn't really close to any of them but he had a violent, criminal side which he kept hidden for the most part."
 
Elley Mae said:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/46971618/

Of the seven calls placed by George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon Martin, there were five where he reported suspicious-looking young men in the area -- but he never mentioned the men's race without first being asked.
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This lends support to the argument that GZ is not a racist. It does nothing to mitigate the fact that he followed TM and ended up putting a bullet in his chest, killing him.
 
Horace Finklestein said:
A violent criminal side? GZ has no convictions, and may have been acting in self defense. < modsnip>
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GZ has a recorded history of violent confrontations. They are public record and a former co-worker stated that when GZ worked as a bouncer he was fired for throwing a woman across a table causing her bodily injury. It's not bashing when it's based on information that is known to be true. You don't have to have convictions to prove you have some control issues. GZ has history that has been continually unchecked. One has the right to ask questions why he has never been held accountable. Everyone has a right to question why he never faced charges in the past for his behavior, everyone. It appears to have influenced his decision to follow TM on that fateful night. GZ has no fear of being held accountable for his actions it's quite obvious in that lockup tape. jmo
 
TonyGatto said:
You actually think they printed his dead body, matched it against some still undisclosed database? So what do you make of all this?
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I never said that is how I thought they found his identity--just that they MIGHT have had his prints on file. You do not need to be arrested to be in that database. If he had joined the ROTC or the LE cadet program in high school for example, he would have his prints on file. Also, if he had a brush with the law at 14, we would not know that, but he would possibly have been printed.
 
TonyGatto said:
By all accounts yes. GZ was released in the 3am hour. Police confirmed TM's identity through his dad later in the morning, I believe in the 8am hour. What are you thinking?
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Until Tracy Martin identified his son, the authorities did not know that Trayvon Martin was an invited guest of a neighborhood resident.

At 3 am when George Zimmerman was released, the authorities were still thinking that GZ shot a prowler. Trayvon was a punk kid from out of town that had no legitimate reason to be inside his gated neighborhood and was clearly up to no good. This perception made it easier to accept Zimmerman's story that he was jumped from behind.
 
lauriej said:
--she's referring to her EX, not george.

"waltzing matilda"--"IMO, it sounds like GZ has two sides to his personality like my ex. He projected a good image to his friends and co-workers but wasn't really close to any of them but he had a violent, criminal side which he kept hidden for the most part."
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Yes, and what were the two sides that GZ supposedly has, like the ex? Nice side and violent criminal side.
 
From the 911 call:

Zimmerman:

It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]
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When GZ made this statement at 7:13:14 pm, one thing becomes very clear.

When he pulled the trigger three minutes and twenty seven seconds later, he knew it was just a young boy he was killing.
 
LambChop said:
GZ has a recorded history of violent confrontations. They are public record and a former co-worker stated that when GZ worked as a bouncer he was fired for throwing a woman across a table causing her bodily injury. It's not bashing when it's based on information that is known to be true. You don't have to have convictions to prove you have some control issues. GZ has history that has been continually unchecked. One has the right to ask questions why he has never been held accountable. Everyone has a right to question why he never faced charges in the past for his behavior, everyone. It appears to have influenced his decision to follow TM on that fateful night. GZ has no fear of being held accountable for his actions it's quite obvious in that lockup tape. jmo
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By that token TM had an incident in which he had jewlery that wasn't his and a burglary tool...yet that is clearly disregarded when it is relevant to whether he may have been casing homes. That's considered "bashing" though. TM had a criminal background as well, but with no convictions.
 
Footwarrior said:
Until Tracy Martin identified his son, the authorities did not know that Trayvon Martin was an invited guest of a neighborhood resident.

At 3 am when George Zimmerman was released, the authorities were still thinking that GZ shot a prowler. Trayvon was a punk kid from out of town that had no legitimate reason to be inside his gated neighborhood and was clearly up to no good. This perception made it easier to accept Zimmerman's story that he was jumped from behind.
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But look at the Washington Post link. They reported that all of TM's info was in the 3:26am police report. IMO, that's what we should be trying to sleuth.
 
Concerned Papa said:
From the 911 call:



When GZ made this statement at 7:13:14 pm, one thing becomes very clear.

When he pulled the trigger three minutes and twenty seven seconds later, he knew it was just a young boy he was killing.
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Yes and he knew it was a young boy that was attacking him as well.
 
LambChop said:
GZ has a recorded history of violent confrontations. They are public record and a former co-worker stated that when GZ worked as a bouncer he was fired for throwing a woman across a table causing her bodily injury. It's not bashing when it's based on information that is known to be true. You don't have to have convictions to prove you have some control issues. GZ has history that has been continually unchecked. One has the right to ask questions why he has never been held accountable. Everyone has a right to question why he never faced charges in the past for his behavior, everyone. It appears to have influenced his decision to follow TM on that fateful night. GZ has no fear of being held accountable for his actions it's quite obvious in that lockup tape. jmo
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One ex-coworker anonymously telling a story does not make it true, imo.
If he really threw a woman across the room she would have sued or had him arrested, imo.
If ee accept that story, then we have to accept the one about TM punching the bus driver, imo. But there is no verification.

I am not saying he wasn't controlling, or obnoxious or out of control. But I do not see a lot of proven info that he was ,in fact, violent. He and his gf had a matching set of restraining orders. But he had no DV arrests that I know of.

He made calls about 6 suspicious persons, but did he ever attack or grab any of them before?
 
mercuriod said:
You do know that to get a result from running someone's prints that person has to have their "prints" on file somewhere, such as after an arrest where they were fingerprinted, joining the military, working for the federal, state or local government. etc. We know that TM did NOT have a criminal record, he was only 17 so he was not in the military or a government employee. So just how would the police department have been able to ID him from "prints"?

If they used a reverse directory and located his ID from that why did they not contact his parents? Why did it take his father calling around and requesting to file a missing person report for the police to finally notifying him of the death of his son?

jmo, imo and all that jazz
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What about a driver's license fingerprint/thumbprint on file if Trayvon has his license?
 
TonyGatto said:
He had a misdemeanor conviction from the felony arrest for the physical altercation and resisting a law enforcement officer in the bar incident.
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Wasn't it a plea deal?? The officer agreed to drop the charges if GZ attended an anger management program? Records were never sealed because he obviously had issues later with domestic violence charges from his ex. I think GZ was hoping all those incidents would disappear from the public record within a few years so he could put his application into LE. I believe that is why he had not applied sooner. He couldn't until someone helped him get those records sealed. But in GZ's mind, he was already acting the part of LE. jmo
 
Horace Finklestein said:
By that token TM had an incident in which he had jewlery that wasn't his and a burglary tool...yet that is clearly disregarded when it is relevant to whether he may have been casing homes. That's considered "bashing" though. TM had a criminal background as well, but with no convictions.
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I haven't seen where TM had a criminal background...the kid has never been arrested last I read..

I just had to run a full scan...it seems I've got a redirect malware...after looking at articles on TM...:what:

someone doesn't want me looking...:giggle:
 
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