17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

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I wouldn't be surprised that when LE arrived on the scene and made their survey, they knew there would be no charges and did minimal required investigation.

What happened when the LE arrived is a big question. Did they they heard SYG specifically mentioned, followed by a justification? I wonder if what they were told by GZ was enough to make them unsure, or uncomfortable or nervous--not sure how to proceed. I'm not saying that's right, it just is so strange.
JMO/IMO
 
I was just posting what a 17yr old person such as Trayvon could legally be allowed to do. Whether a 17yr old child should be allowed to operate a dangerous machine such as a car or be allowed to join the military and be given a deadly weapon is perhaps a question for another forum. But at this point in time it is legal for a 17 yr old to have these very serious responsibilities were a younger person would not. JMO.

A 17 year old, who is non military cannot own a gun and possess a concealed carry permit. GZ and TM were never on the same level, one was an adult with all rights and privileges of an adult and the other was a minor with all the rights and privileges of a minor. While a car can be a deadly weapon, it can and has been used safely by many. We can't compare a car to a gun.
 
When GZ confronted Trayvon he (Trayvon) was in the process of aggravated assault or he (Trayvon) was attempting to murder someone???? So there is a third person in this case?

Based on GZ's version of the facts, which will form the basis of his defense whether one agrees with his version or not, Trayvon physically assualted him first. So unless GZ had already pulled his gun in a manner that put Trayvon in fear of his life FIRST, Trayvon's alleged physical attack on GZ will be the operative allegation to meet that element of the SYG defense. Depending on whether GZ claims to have been in fear of great bodily harm, or in fear of his life, will determine whether he will assert that Trayvon was committing aggravated assualt or attempted murder on him at that time.

All of that is jmo.
 
Na, I'll stick with kid like George said.

Great point! And that's fine, too.

(Not directed at you Concerned Papa)... I just don't see the pluses in the debate...

teen, minor, kid, child...all should be equally perfectly acceptable.
 
Here's the SYG statute.


The last section says "or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony".

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Still I wonder what was it GZ thought he was preventing? By law, GZ could have just thought Trayvon looked like he was going to commit a felony so by law GZ could shoot Trayvon? I don't think so, GZ had to have something more then just how a person looks, by law. When GZ confroted Trayvon, the only thing Trayvon was doing is walking, I'm pretty sure walking does not mean there is going to be felony commited. Time will tell.
 
Snipped - Wouldn't let me quote your quote.
Here's the SYG statute.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


The last section says "or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony".

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

So, as stated in the statute, Trayvon Martin had the right to Stand His Ground. Thanks. Clears it up for me. :seeya:
 
I'm guessing that there is a MSM link, statistics, or evidence out there that would suggest that a well thought out decision takes 3 weeks. (I have no such information, though). I would further guess that the decision in this case would have to take about 3 weeks so that it falls in line with previously established standards for arriving at a well thought out decision.

Not my question, just thought I'd take a shot at it...

:moo::twocents:

Thanks, HH. Appreciate the explanation. :)

I was more interested in why the OP phrased it as if to imply it would be anything other than a well thought out decision. Since they declined to clarify, I'm left to my draw own conclusions.

so it will look like a well thought out decision

MOO
 
Snipped - Wouldn't let me quote your quote.

So, as stated in the statute, Trayvon Martin had the right to Stand His Ground. Thanks. Clears it up for me. :seeya:

A jury (if it gets that far) will have to ultimately decide if GZ 'attacked' TM or if they believe GZ's story (TM attacked him).
 
Still I wonder what was it GZ thought he was preventing? By law, GZ could have just thought Trayvon looked like he was going to commit a felony so by law GZ could shoot Trayvon? I don't think so, GZ had to have something more then just how a person looks, by law. When GZ confroted Trayvon, the only thing Trayvon was doing is walking, I'm pretty sure walking does not mean there is going to be felony commited. Time will tell.
I read the statute as saying one can use deadly force to prevent great bodily harm or to stop a forcible felony.
 
Snipped - Wouldn't let me quote your quote.

So, as stated in the statute, Trayvon Martin had the right to Stand His Ground. Thanks. Clears it up for me. :seeya:

Yes the law would apply to Trayvon as well. He would have every right to defend himself if attacked by GZ.
 
Based on GZ's version of the facts, which will form the basis of his defense whether one agrees with his version or not, Trayvon physically assualted him first. So unless GZ had already pulled his gun in a manner that put Trayvon in fear of his life FIRST, Trayvon's alleged physical attack on GZ will be the operative allegation to meet that element of the SYG defense. Depending on whether GZ claims to have been in fear of great bodily harm, or in fear of his life, will determine whether he will assert that Trayvon was committing aggravated assualt or attempted murder on him at that time.

All of that is jmo.

LOL OK obviously we are looking at this SYG law differently I'm saying GZ in the beginning had to have a reason for approaching Trayvon. Other then "he looks suspicious" Because Trayvon was defending himself from GZ is not reason for GZ to shoot Trayvon.
 
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Breaking: Quran-burning Pastor Terry Jones says he's planning to hold a #GeorgeZimmerman rally in Sanford on Saturday. #TrayvonMartin
 
I read the statute as saying one can use deadly force to prevent great bodily harm or to stop a forcible felony.


Same response as above :)
LOL OK obviously we are looking at this SYG law differently I'm saying GZ in the beginning had to have a reason for approaching Trayvon. Other then "he looks suspicious" Because Trayvon was defending himself from GZ is not reason for GZ to shoot Trayvon.
 
I see that some feel that referring TM as a child, which he legally is, is an attempt to gain further sympathy for him and his family. I have to wonder then, if the arguments against his being a child is an effort to reduce the sympathy for him?

I've been lurking for a bit, but I just wanted to say how much I personally agree with that.

I absolutely think that making Martin a less sympathetic victim is the end goal for far too many people. IMO, that is the primary reason why people argue so hard against his status as a minor, and it is also why his height and weight appears to be in such great dispute. For example, the police report puts him at 6'0" and 160lbs. Yet I've seen many posts that refer to him as taller and heavier - I had a recent discussion with someone who insisted Martin was 6'5" and weighed 190lbs. People want Martin to be bigger than he was because that makes him a more imposing figure, and makes Zimmerman's claim of a struggle far more dire.

IMO, people aren't looking for the "truth," or "accuracy" when they insist that Martin was not a kid, or make irrelevant claims about his school record, etc. What they're looking for is justification for Martin's death, and reasons to absolve Zimmerman of the shooting.
 
If you will look at the surveillance video taken upon his arrival to the police station, you will see the cops patting him down without the use of any type of gloves.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475
~jmo~

TY Adrienne, you're right. Guess I thought it was standard protocal - and just common sense - to always wear gloves in a professional setting when/wherever blood is involved. JMO~

Watching the part where the one officer is looking at the back of his head...
The officer touches something on the back of GZ's jacket, holds his hand out to look at it and then wipes his hand off on his pants.
I wonder what it was, if it were blood the officer was kind of dumb and gross at the same time.
 
I've been lurking for a bit, but I just wanted to say how much I personally agree with that.

I absolutely think that making Martin a less sympathetic victim is the end goal for far too many people. IMO, that is the primary reason why people argue so hard against his status as a minor, and it is also why his height and weight appears to be in such great dispute. For example, the police report puts him at 6'0" and 160lbs. Yet I've seen many posts that refer to him as taller and heavier - I had a recent discussion with someone who insisted Martin was 6'5" and weighed 190lbs. People want Martin to be bigger than he was because that makes him a more imposing figure, and makes Zimmerman's claim of a struggle far more dire.

IMO, people aren't looking for the "truth," or "accuracy" when they insist that Martin was not a kid, or make irrelevant claims about his school record, etc. What they're looking for is justification for Martin's death, and reasons to absolve Zimmerman of the shooting.

:wagon:

Awesome first post! ITA
 
The age of majority is not below 18 in a single state. So you're right, I'm not accurate in saying it is 18 in all states, but that's kind of splitting hairs.

Trayvon was not emancipated, he hadn't joined the military or any of what we are discussing. So he was not given the age of majority. He was a a minor. Saying tween, teen, child, minor, etc. is semantics. We all know he was 17 and not yet an adult.

One last thing, we do hear the term "child bride" so we don't always distinguish between teenagers and children.

My point was not mere semantics. My point is that the "age of majority" is a fluid, not static, concept.

IMO, one usually calls a teen a "child" when they are being reprimanded, and referring to TM as a child is insulting and disrespectful. Minor, kid, teen are much more age appropriate and, IMO, more respectful. I prefer young man and specifically use it to show respect toward TM.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:
 
Watching the part where the one officer is looking at the back of his head...
The officer touches something on the back of GZ's jacket, holds his hand out to look at it and then wipes his hand off on his pants.
I wonder what it was, if it were blood the officer was kind of dumb and gross at the same time
.

Well if it was anything gross it was probably part of Trayvon's heart or chest or back. IMO


Using the scientific/medical definition of gross.
 
TRUE. He was their child.

But when describing GZ and his following someone he thought was suspicious, saying he was 'hunting down a child' seems disingenuous. Because he was following a teen who was about 6 ft tall, and obviously not a little child.

I really do not care how it is sliced or diced. Mentally Trayvon was still a child, regardless how tall he was. Subject to fears and many other factors and more vulnerable than a 28 year old.. He did not think like an adult yet.If he was a 17 year old midget would he be more like a child?
 
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