NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #21

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Mrs G Norris said:
Erm, no, it's not a custom here, and I've never seen it either, perhaps as a benefit for the immigration officials?
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Or she told so many lies to family they probably said I will believe it when I see proof or something along those lines
 
simlyme said:
Lisa Hires new prominent attorney, OMG ,what next,

http://primewriter.com/news-1246-headlines/?p=10752
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Kat said:
I think that's a blog. I'm not sure if we can trust that source JMHO.
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MSM links
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/16/dubs-assigned-elisa-bakers-case-ar-478084/
http://www.dubslawfirm.embarqspace.com/#/criminal-law/4532635515

Dubs is one of about 10 Catawba County attorneys permitted to defend clients facing the death penalty. Even though Baker has not been charged with Zahra’s murder, the case has gained nationwide attention and Hurley has decided that it is appropriate to appoint Dubs because of the likelihood that Baker will eventually be charged with the crime, Dubs explained.'

and, also from article.....

'Zahra Baker’s stepmother has been in the Catawba County jail since Oct. 10, and she’s had frequent visits from three people: her attorney Scott Reilly, attorney Lisa Dubs and private investigator Steve Elhers.

Lisa Dubs confirmed Friday that she has been assigned to Baker’s case as provisional council. According to court records, Dubs’ role is to “Conduct a preliminary investigation, determine if the defendant is indigent and needs appointed counsel, and protect the defendant’s rights pending appointment of trial counsel.”

So sounds like once they find EB indigent LD will withdraw in favour of a court appointed attorney to take the case to trial.

Advice to EB: Plead now, while you still have good attorneys working with you to negotiate a deal, if you go to trial its the DP fo shizzer. JMO
 
I keep going over in my head what could have happened at first I thought medical neglect but given EB's suspected Muchausen by Proxy that would have given her lots of attention I am now thinking it was a deliberate act out of some sick type of jealousy as far as AB goes I think he is a weak willed person who wouldn't disobey her and helped her in the cover-up Someone had to have helped her being that Mattresses are involved IMO
 
Just a couple of thoughts to throw out:

My husband and I have a pic of us signing our marriage certificate in Scotland. It was the photographer's prompting but after 3 years, 5000 miles, lots of court proceedings, a GAL investigation and a few grand to get us there I would have posed upside down hanging from the rafters had they asked me to. There was an extreme amount of both jubilation but also relief we'd finally made it. International relationships can be taxing at times to put it mildly.

Also...just food for thought...AB wouldn't have to necessarily be 'dumb' to be preyed upon by a psychopath (narcissist, sociopath, whatever you want to call it). People afflicted with cluster b personality disorders are master manipulators. They are chameleons and can appear to be whatever you desire. My theory, IMO, is that EB sold AB a whole different novel and once he and Zahra were in the States they were stuck. Please realise I am not excusing the father's action/inaction. I told my husband (the step) that if I (the bio) ever hurt our kids I would expect him to nail my a$$ to the wall personally. And I would do the same.
 
mytime said:
They found the mattress near the trailer park.

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13297637
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This is also from your link and it is what one poster was searching for:
"They need to come back and do some more," said Tabitha Haas.

Haas said Adam and Elisa Baker were spotted in the neighborhood about three weeks ago.

"They came here at night," Haas said.

Peggy Johnson claims a few days later, "the most awful smell was coming up out of the manhole in my yard."

She said authorities lifted the lid and looked inside, but only for a few seconds.

"They's another manhole in the holler that they need to come back and look at," Johnson said.

The place she talked about is hidden in a valley area behind a vacant trailer. It is in the same area where the couple was spotted.
 
BritsKate said:
Just a couple of thoughts to throw out:

My husband and I have a pic of us signing our marriage certificate in Scotland. It was the photographer's prompting but after 3 years, 5000 miles, lots of court proceedings, a GAL investigation and a few grand to get us there I would have posed upside down hanging from the rafters had they asked me to. There was an extreme amount of both jubilation but also relief we'd finally made it. International relationships can be taxing at times to put it mildly.

Also...just food for thought...AB wouldn't have to necessarily be 'dumb' to be preyed upon by a psychopath (narcissist, sociopath, whatever you want to call it). People afflicted with cluster b personality disorders are master manipulators. They are chameleons and can appear to be whatever you desire. My theory, IMO, is that EB sold AB a whole different novel and once he and Zahra were in the States they were stuck. Please realise I am not excusing the father's action/inaction. I told my husband (the step) that if I (the bio) ever hurt our kids I would expect him to nail my a$$ to the wall personally. And I would do the same.
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I tend to wonder about AB feeling 'stuck' in a foreign country with limited funds to leave coupled with his supposed falling out with his family over the move. He appears to me as the caveman type - i.e. 'man earn bacon, woman cook it'. Perhaps he found it difficult to accept defeat, call his mother and admit the move was wrong and ask for financial help and emotional support to bring himself and his daughter home. Just my opinion of course, one of the many possibilities we can throw around to arrive at some type of motive/conclusion.

The pedo theory is more than likely impossible, just trying to wrap my head around why someone would want to harm such a beautiful and defenseless child.

I still maintain there are a couple of issues here:

1) Visa troubles for AB

2) His apparent lack of judgement and the realisation he had made a huge mistake marrying her and relocating to the US.
 
SewingDeb said:
This is also from your link and it is what one poster was searching for:
"They need to come back and do some more," said Tabitha Haas.

Haas said Adam and Elisa Baker were spotted in the neighborhood about three weeks ago.

"They came here at night," Haas said.

Peggy Johnson claims a few days later, "the most awful smell was coming up out of the manhole in my yard."

She said authorities lifted the lid and looked inside, but only for a few seconds.

"They's another manhole in the holler that they need to come back and look at," Johnson said.

The place she talked about is hidden in a valley area behind a vacant trailer. It is in the same area where the couple was spotted.
Click to expand...

What's a 'manhole' in the US? I call a 'manhole' the small entry area into a roof.
 
It's usually a hole leading to water and sewer drains. There is a heavy metal cover, usually round in North Carolina) that can be lifted so a man/woman can go into the sewer to work.

It is a possible place to hide a body and should definitely be checked by police if there is a strong smell and it's located where E and A had been seen during the night a few weeks ago.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhole[/ame]
 
You beat me to it, Patty. : )

The smell from the manhole really bothers me and I hope it has been thoroughly checked out.
 
simlyme said:
Someone not too far back gave this link for pictures, http://www.flickr.com/photos/54746494@N07/
some of which I hadnt seen before, one in particular,actually 2, that brought a strange feeling to me .
The one with Z and other children,her hair is so blond in that picture, it almost seems to me that she was always being changed in her appearance, why?
She is beautiful as she is, why the many looks, it follows in line with SM always looking so different, does anyone else see that?
Also, the pics for the passports, does anyone know what house those were taken in?
It looks like to me the white material is hung on a twin box spring,theres a piece running across the box you can see through the fabric. Im still in shock with this tragedy, whens it going to end? :furious::furious:
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Very good question :hug: and I think found the answer right in your post. EB kept changing Z's look because she was so beautiful on her own. Her immature self was probably jealous of Z's young natural beauty. In one picture she completely hacks off her hair. It's like she tried to take her beauty away in as many ways possible.
 
Nosee_Parker said:
I tend to wonder about AB feeling 'stuck' in a foreign country with limited funds to leave coupled with his supposed falling out with his family over the move. He appears to me as the caveman type - i.e. 'man earn bacon, woman cook it'. Perhaps he found it difficult to accept defeat, call his mother and admit the move was wrong and ask for financial help and emotional support to bring himself and his daughter home. Just my opinion of course, one of the many possibilities we can throw around to arrive at some type of motive/conclusion.

The pedo theory is more than likely impossible, just trying to wrap my head around why someone would want to harm such a beautiful and defenseless child.

I still maintain there are a couple of issues here:

1) Visa troubles for AB

2) His apparent lack of judgement and the realisation he had made a huge mistake marrying her and relocating to the US.
Click to expand...

Yes she may have told him bs about what would happen to him if he went to cops he doesn't appear well read so him not being American he bought it hook line and sinker but then again she is locked up and now would be the time to start spilling his guts to LE if he was involved in a cover up and loved his baby at all btw I bet he overstayed his Visa, what do you think? IMO
 
This case is just ripping my heart out. Please, please let them find her. I don't want to see another Kyron case. I don't understand how these children can just disappear off the face of the earth and no one can figure out where they went. It seems impossible yet happens all the time. There has to be a better way to handle these cases. These poor little lost souls are just floating around somewhere out there, while their families sit in unending agony not knowing what happened.
 
I have looked and looked at photos of AB and Zahra side by side and I can not find a single feature that they share. Is it just me? Mabe I don't want to see any..
 
rbrnmw2 said:
Yes she may have told him bs about what would happen to him if he went to cops he doesn't appear well read so him not being American he bought it hook line and sinker but then again she is locked up and now would be the time to start spilling his guts to LE if he was involved in a cover up and loved his baby at all btw I bet he overstayed his Visa, what do you think? IMO
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I don't think he even had a visa. None is needed for tourists due to the VWP between the Commonwealth and the States. (link on last thread)

I think Zahra and AB came in the country as tourists and then possibly began seeking to apply for residency visas - this might explain the need for passport style photos after they entered the US. I think going the legal route was probably short lived once they realised how expensive and invasive a process it would be. EB would have had to prove a lot in order to sponsor them and I just don't see how. 125% income above poverty level, secure housing, proof the Aussie courts allowed Zahra to leave the country, etc.

Sadly - even had AB been too embarassed to rely on family members the embassy would have helped them get home. He would probably face a ban, fine and perhaps a small amount of incarceration but they would have gotten Zahra back to Oz. :(
 
Hubby and I were just reminiscing about how difficult it really was getting past the borders when we visited one another. I had to prove I was going back to the States when I visited (letter from employer, return ticket, etc.) and it was even worse for my husband going into the US at Newark.

I can't help but feel Zahra fell through every crack along the way. Legally she shouldn't have been allowed to leave Oz without a court order according to the AFP website much less being moved half a world away. (And I think, on a personal note, AB gives loving parents who do LEGALLY move their children to a foreign country a bad rap. GRRR.) Someone speculated AB should have been more involved post-relocation and I couldn't agree more.

http://www.afp.gov.au/policing/family-law/family-law-kit.aspx
 
SewingDeb said:
It's usually a hole leading to water and sewer drains. There is a heavy metal cover, usually round in North Carolina) that can be lifted so a man/woman can go into the sewer to work.

It is a possible place to hide a body and should definitely be checked by police if there is a strong smell and it's located where E and A had been seen during the night a few weeks ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhole
Click to expand...

Thank you!

Isn't it funny how we refer to things differently. When I first read the 'manhole' reference, I immediately thought 'how would they know the smells coming from someone's manhole'! In Australia, the manhole is usually a square - approximately a foot in diameter with a cover to allow access into the roof area. My husband had to climb up the other day to check out central heating unit.

Because I'm too lazy to quote again, to the previous poster who questioned Zahra's hair cuts/colour, I'm also puzzled about that. If (and I mean 'if) she were from a loving, stable environment, then one could reconcile that given her previous cancer treatment and subsequent hair loss then it would be understandable to over-indulge her in the makeover department - you know, to make her feel pretty, good about herself etc. But, I don't believe her creative hair do's were the result of loving pampering. It strikes me as odd/weird.
 
BritsKate said:
I don't think he even had a visa. None is needed for tourists due to the VWP between the Commonwealth and the States. (link on last thread)

I think Zahra and AB came in the country as tourists and then possibly began seeking to apply for residency visas - this might explain the need for passport style photos after they entered the US. I think going the legal route was probably short lived once they realised how expensive and invasive a process it would be. EB would have had to prove a lot in order to sponsor them and I just don't see how. 125% income above poverty level, secure housing, proof the Aussie courts allowed Zahra to leave the country, etc.

Sadly - even had AB been too embarassed to rely on family members the embassy would have helped them get home. He would probably face a ban, fine and perhaps a small amount of incarceration but they would have gotten Zahra back to Oz. :(
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It has been a long time since I read about visas and passports I am sure a lot has changed I should study up on it. I feel awful for Zahra's loved ones in OZ the hell they must be going through
 
Nosee_Parker said:
I tend to wonder about AB feeling 'stuck' in a foreign country with limited funds to leave coupled with his supposed falling out with his family over the move. He appears to me as the caveman type - i.e. 'man earn bacon, woman cook it'. Perhaps he found it difficult to accept defeat, call his mother and admit the move was wrong and ask for financial help and emotional support to bring himself and his daughter home. Just my opinion of course, one of the many possibilities we can throw around to arrive at some type of motive/conclusion.

The pedo theory is more than likely impossible, just trying to wrap my head around why someone would want to harm such a beautiful and defenseless child.

I still maintain there are a couple of issues here:

1) Visa troubles for AB

2) His apparent lack of judgement and the realisation he had made a huge mistake marrying her and relocating to the US.
Click to expand...

Relocation to another country is problematic for even the best prepared ie those like me who take the time to get to know the person they are going to marry and the place they are going to be relocating to.

Even for those who have all their affairs in order and the financial wherewithal to survive during the initial period, culture shock is very real and difficult to cope with. You'd think there wouldn't be a lot of differences between life in the UK and life in the USA but there are and some quite profound differences too.

Add to that not knowing many people, add to that isolation from family and friends 'back home', homesickness in general and on the pettiest level missing little things you always took for granted there but can't get here.

I really struggled in my first year and I had everything in place before I came, a loving and supportive spouse, a nice home and comfortable lifestyle to come to so I can only imagine how difficult it must have been for AB with none of those assurances or cushions.

That's not to give him a free pass btw, I hold him fully responsible for the choices he made especially those regarding Zahra who should have been his first priority but sadly appears to have been way way down his list.
 
Nosee, we're learning from each other. I can't imagine having to climb up to check a heating and air conditioning unit (on a house anyway). Ours are usually located outside the home or in a small closet on the first floor.
 
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