ID ID - Lonnie Jones, 13, Orofino, September 1951

STANDREID said:

Since he had money, I wonder why he didn't just phone a relative and tell them that he was stranded. Or, maybe he contacted a policeman and the cop was the perp.

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I wonder if the person,or persons who killed Lonnie took his money ? MOO

STANDREID said:

Since he had money, I wonder why he didn't just phone a relative and tell them that he was stranded. Or, maybe he contacted a policeman and the cop was the perp.

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Well I wouldnt want to jump to conclusions but the description of how his wrists were bent up behind his back and the fact that his killer made a point of removing whatever was binding them certainly makes one wonder.
Though you dont have to be a policeman to have handcuffs....Ive probably got about four pair hanging around in various drawers from my days as a Correctional Officer.
I cant imagine ever needing them for anything but there kind of expensive so Ive just never thrown them away.Seems like im always running across a pair when Im digging looking for something else.
In 1951 its a good chance none of his relatives up in Weippe even had a phone.

Lonnie was found totally nude?
Also, since he was blindfolded-there could have been more than 1 killer?

scriptgirl said:

Lonnie was found totally nude?
Also, since he was blindfolded-there could have been more than 1 killer?

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Its my understanding he was.
The blindfold business is somewhat intriguiging....Lonnie obviously saw whoever picked him up and Im sure he was aware what was happening to him.
Who's benefit was the blindfold for? Him or his killer?
Going on just a gut instinct Id say there was probably one killer.
Obviously this was crime of chance and impulse,I mean it was a totaly random series of events that put Lonnie there in Greer at that time of night by himself,its certainly not something that could have been anticipated by someone who had a premediditated plan to abduct him.
I think someone was returning from the fair or the bars (Saturday night downtown during the Fair was and is a riotus time,lots of stuff that has been simering all summer hookups,breakups fights ect. seem to come to a head during Fair weekend.)
Maybe someone with a skin full of alchohol and a headfull of bad stuff happened upon him and maybe he'd just been dumped by a wife or girlfriend or a crush ,stood up or beat up in a bar brawl and heres little Lonnie standing by the road....
Maybe someone whos wig is a little loose to begin with and maybe this weekend something caused it to blow all the way off and heres someone he can empower himself with and work out a few kinks he's always had and be completely in control of.
Of course you could speculate forever on this kind of thing and never know if its anywhere near what happend.

I don't think this was random. This person did this before.

i think it was the teens he was needing a ride home and they somehow looked shady to him but they offered and as they were riding to where they were going to dump him he started to ease up thinking ok. but what was he doing that late at the fair grounds?

also if the teens were truly good people why didnt they drive him all the way home or was that to out of the way or they could have just dropped him off at the police station. something tells me the teens were up to no good

scriptgirl said:

I don't think this was random. This person did this before.

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Yeah definitely,by random I didnt mean that I thought his killer hadnt killed before just that he happened upon Lonnie when and where he did.
Just a feeling once again but even if the killer hadnt killed a person before I would be willing to bet he'd done it before to farm animals.
The binding assaulting and slashing of the throat...it seems pretty organized for a first run.

smile22 said:

i think it was the teens he was needing a ride home and they somehow looked shady to him but they offered and as they were riding to where they were going to dump him he started to ease up thinking ok. but what was he doing that late at the fair grounds?

also if the teens were truly good people why didnt they drive him all the way home or was that to out of the way or they could have just dropped him off at the police station. something tells me the teens were up to no good

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Taking Lonnie all the way home would have meant an hour long drive up the Greer grade and accross the prairie ,and another hour and more back down and home to Kamiah.
They may not have had the time if they were up against a time limit to be home themselves.
I really think Lonnie was hoping to catch a ride with someone else returning back up the hill to Weippe from Orofino(sadly he probably did.)
I would like to find out if Lonnie had ever hitched from Orofino to Weippe before?
Being 12 years old you wouldnt think so but who knows?
But the Carnival should have closed by 10:00pm or 11:00pm and even if he went to the movie it would have ended by 10:00pm so where was he up until 12:30pm when the Kamiah teens encountered him at the bridge?
So many questions.

Any luck on getting those police files?

This may have already been discussed. I'm just getting re - caught up on this case after not looking at it for awhile..... But, did they take crime scene photos of any kind? I know they may not have been suitable for public viewing, but it seems like most police departments would do that, even in those days. I'm just wondering because of all the confusion over the state of the body.

momtolil said:

This may have already been discussed. I'm just getting re - caught up on this case after not looking at it for awhile..... But, did they take crime scene photos of any kind? I know they may not have been suitable for public viewing, but it seems like most police departments would do that, even in those days. I'm just wondering because of all the confusion over the state of the body.

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I would have to assume so and I would imagine if they still exist they are with whatever remains of the files.
Three years after Lonnie's murder in 1954 my two teenage aunts and another teen age boy were killed in a car crash along the same stretch of road three miles from where Lonnies body was found.
Several photos of the demolished car in the weeds and rocks by the river that look like police photos were printed in the same newspaper I found the coverage of Lonnie's case in.
I dont really relish seeing these particular crime scene photos but it would clarify several key points I would like to clarify.
The files are something of a conundrum,I know several police officers and have been given different opinions about the existance of and the possibilty of my gaining access to the file.
Im going to have to be careful how I proceed and how and who I approach.
Also since ive discovered that local law enforcement was in fact NOT in charge of the investigation but this retired FBI /attourney from Washington State there are probably alot of documentation concerning the case that may have been in his possesion that local LE doesnt have.
It may be complicated.But nothing to do but try.

The time line is interesting... is it possible that the 2 teenagers who stated that they picked up Lonnie at 12 :30 are not telling the truth ? MOO

WHY was the FBI called in? Was there a rash of assaults on young boys they were investigating?
Also, if the FBI investigated, isn't there the freedom of information act you could apply to this?

scriptgirl said:

WHY was the FBI called in? Was there a rash of assaults on young boys they were investigating?
Also, if the FBI investigated, isn't there the freedom of information act you could apply to this?

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Thats the weird part...he wasnt an active FBI agent.He was retired FBI currently working as an attourney...from another state yet.Why in the world was he in charge of the case instead of local LE?
It doesnt make much sense at least to me.

liz b. said:

The time line is interesting... is it possible that the 2 teenagers who stated that they picked up Lonnie at 12 :30 are not telling the truth ? MOO

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Very possibly.

Kline, I've been reading this thread with great interest. It's wonderful that you've taken it on as a project - good luck! That poor child deserves the truth to be known.

The gagging and the posture of his hands (suggesting, clearly, post-mortem removal of bindings) made me wonder how long he'd been dead before he wound up by the river.

Also, the fact he seemed shook up when the teenagers picked him up hit a nerve with me - I was picked up while hitch-hiking by a total creep once, who proved some years later to be the brother of a ruthless serial killer, and under some suspicion of being an accomplice (I have NO doubt he was..). He did let me out of his car (which had no inside passenger door handles..) finally, on a deserted stretch of road by a cane field. Maybe I just didn't measure up as a victim, or something, but I also had a powerful and horrible feeling at the time that he was playing cat and mouse. The next car to come along (thankfully not too long after) had two young guys in it - I was more than a little shook up, but calmed down some as we went (I think I was actually still in a deal of post-creep shock).

It just reminded me of that, also because 12.00 is really late for a kid of his age to be getting home from a fair. Granted, he had money and probably had a good time with it - but was he 'sidetracked' by somebody there? Why didn't he snag a ride home with some of the people he knew? The timing suggests he was at the fair til the very last moment before closing, or even after closing.

Just a thought on the carnies - if that fair was annual, what's the likelihood of a carny who did a seasonal circuit getting to know the local area over time? I ask that because it might be possible to track what town fairs ran and when, and see if there were any similar crimes along the route.

It's a long time ago, and not all crimes are widely reported even today - but I doubt seriously that this was the killer's first crime. It just seems too practised to me, even if it was sheerly opportunistic. In my opinion, there has to be other victims out there, somewhere.

An additional thought: the report's mention of 'the condition' of Lonnie's body - could that imply that the killer had ejaculated on his body, without penetration? The wording made me think they were sparing the family that sort of detail, is all. It could also, of course, pertain to bruising and other signs of struggle.

I found this article, in which the Sheriff states he was convinced Lonnie had been transported from wherever he was killed to where he was found:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...-VXAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OvYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4226,4047487

He was last seen around midnight. Then there's a couple hours he was likely alive after that, says the coroner - so where'd he spend those? At the fairground? In a vehicle? In another part of the woods (but why then move him again..?) On the property of somebody who lived nearby? He wasn't moved all that far from where he was last seen, so my guess is either a vehicle or a nearby property or both. He was likely tied up alive, died while bound and had the bindings removed after (for convenience of transport, or the bindings could have helped ID the killer somehow) - possibly he was moved several hours after death, if his hands retained that shape. Rigor mortis takes a while to set in, doesn't it? So there's potentially a bunch of hours the killer had Lonnie - both alive and dead - in his possession.

It'd be worth also checking out whether either of those two 'highschool' boys (isn't 19 kind of old for high school?) or the truck driver went on to have trouble with the law.

Ausgirl said:

I found this article, in which the Sheriff states he was convinced Lonnie had been transported from wherever he was killed to where he was found:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...-VXAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OvYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4226,4047487

He was last seen around midnight. Then there's a couple hours he was likely alive after that, says the coroner - so where'd he spend those? At the fairground? In a vehicle? In another part of the woods (but why then move him again..?) On the property of somebody who lived nearby? He wasn't moved all that far from where he was last seen, so my guess is either a vehicle or a nearby property or both. He was likely tied up alive, died while bound and had the bindings removed after (for convenience of transport, or the bindings could have helped ID the killer somehow) - possibly he was moved several hours after death, if his hands retained that shape. Rigor mortis takes a while to set in, doesn't it? So there's potentially a bunch of hours the killer had Lonnie - both alive and dead - in his possession.

It'd be worth also checking out whether either of those two 'highschool' boys (isn't 19 kind of old for high school?) or the truck driver went on to have trouble with the law.

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Nice Find Aussiegirl! I hadnt seen that particular article!
I agree with all of your points.
Ive wondered if he had been accosted before the boys picked him up by somebody.
Unnatural advances by an adult would shake any 12 year old up and chances are he wouldnt tell the teenagers about it.
Maybe the killer tailed them to Greer.
And your right, that late practicaly everyone would be gone from the fair I would think.What was he doing instead of snagging a ride home earlier?
And yes Im sure his killer had him for a few hours alive.
Its hard to say whether he was dumped where he was found by the river Sunday morning or days later.It does appear Rigor set in while his hands were bound.
He could have been killed in the woods on the Greer Grade or near Weippe down some logging road in someones barn or anywhere.
Ive always thought the site he was dumped was telling in that its about as far in the opposite direction from Weippe that you can get, in the opposite direction of the searches without driving back into Orofino.
I dont really get why he was dumped in that fashion anyway.
Back in those days between Greer and Weippe there would have been Billion places where ten minutes with a shovel would have insured he would NEVER have been found. Hell,there still are.
I dont believe it was the killers first time either.
The method of binding and execution seem pretty organized.
I think your right about 'The Condition of the body' statement I really think it was the authorities way of sparing the family and Lonnie the stigma of homosexual assault.That was my immediate impression as well.
"Yeah Lonnie fought the good fight and the degenerate wasnt able to have his way." Which I find hard to believe.
It would be interesting to find out if any other crimes in the vacinty of the Carnival took place then as now many Carnies were ex cons and not the most upstanding sort.
And what better way for a pedophile to be in contact with children then the carnival circuit?
Anyway thanks for the article and your input!

The killer wanted Lonnie to be found. Seems like they were thumbing their nose..
Was there any talk about any of Lonnie's family not being upright other than this "cousin"

I just find it odd that no one at all claimed to have seen Lonnie from 6 :30, when his grandmother left, and ( supposedly) 12:30. when he was picked up by the 2 high school boys... No one remembered selling him anything at the fair ? No one saw him at any of the arcades,or the midway at the fair? And no one remembered him at the movie he mentioned to his grandmother ? I'm wondering if he was actually at the fair for those 6 hours... MOO

Also, who did Lonnie live with ? With his parents ? I didn't read anything about them... Was a reward for information about his murder ever put up ?