OK - Donald 'Joe' Neff, 61, Poteau, 14 May 2009 - #1

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Hi Sailor Bug I was going to correct a couple of times and answer a few of your questions.
Yes the gf saw him at 7am, and yas drives a red truck.
He paid his water bill around 10 am then went across the street to Napa and paid his bill there, then probably headed to bar. The crime scene was discovered by a customer and gf right before noon on the 14th.
About 4:30 or 5 pm on the 17th is when his body was discovered.

Thanks so much for all the contacts !!!! I am going to start e-mailing the other ones right away. Thanks everyone!!!!
 
WHO MURDERERED of Joe Neff
(July 31, 1947 - May 14, 2009)

Please just copy paste or add/correct any information/questions or even if you just want to improve what we have here...Thanks

-Joe Neff was last seen at about 9-10AM Thursday in a local store paid his water bill around 10 am then went across the street to Napa and paid his bill there. Prior to that, a female (Joe's Gf saw him at 7am) said LeFlore County Sheriff Bruce Curnutt.

-Neff was discovered missing Thursday May 14, 2009,
-crime scene was discovered by a customer and gf right before noon on the 14th 62 yr old Joe Neff's black Chevy SUV that was parked at the scene Long Branch Saloon, 68155 US 59, near Poteauwhat
-Evidence was found inside the saloon--> definitely signs of a struggle and an injury inside. "We do believe that the bar owner Joe Neff may be injured.The gf(45?) (of Neff) is the employee who called authorities. Neff's girlfriend who came to open the bar that day. She found blood inside, and Neff's trademark cowboy hat had been left behind.

-The saloon was equipped with security cameras, but authorities have yet to review any footage. There is a surveillance camera that still remains in the bar. LE said hey had the tape from this system. However, they would never say if it captured what happened in the bar.

-Several individuals were interviewed as persons of interest.

-The day Neff disappeared, witnesses told investigators they saw an older model red pickup parked at the bar. That vehicle has never been found (Gf has red truck)

-At the actual crime scene the vehicles behind the sheriffs tape are...the car belongs to the first customer and the red truck belongs to the gf. The OSBI checked both vehicles before they were released. Sheriffs and OSBI stayed until early the next morning collecting evidence and studying the crime scene.

-Neff kept a safe inside a room in his Poteau home. Investigators said thousands of dollars were taken from the safe.

-LE claimed "this was personal" (Familytold this from the get-go)

-Interviewed people who have been banned from the bar, but nothing came up during the interviews that led police to believe someone had held a grudge. Neff has not had to ban anyone from the bar recently.

-Investigations spent much of Friday at Neff’s home, on Country Club Road, just outside of Poteau city limits. Authorities conducted a ground search for Neff Friday: however, but planned to expand the search today and Sunday to include bodies of water.

-Deputies have also been conducting searches near the bar, including land near Long Lake and the Poteau River

-Sunday About 4:30 or 5 pm May 17, 2009 Joe Neff's body found floating in a strip mining pit on McKenzie Road in Pocola. Died from a gunshot wound-$740 in Joe's top pocket(NOT taken)
-cigarettes, cell phone and keys taken.
-Home safe emptied( thousands of $ taken)

__________________________________________________________

Important info:
*This in and of itself made him a 'sought-after target'. Word gets out that "Joe Neff bailed me out; feeds us free on Sundays - carries/deals with a lot of cash and is retiring soon". All of those actions translate into "great opportunity for money" to more desperate, cunning folk.

*You then wrote something quite poignant - very early on - regarding the (good) advice your dad gave you: "Don't ever lend more than you're willing to give away...". there may be one or more whom your father decided he was not prepared to give any more?

*I cannot really imagine him ever telling someone no. He helped everyone. He felt that if they asked for it, they needed it worse than he did. He would go without before he would deny someone anything they needed. I think it is likely that this person was accompanied by a stranger (to Joe), who probably was the killer.

*That/those person/s may have known your father's footsteps and habits; known the best time to approach him; known his 'cash-run' timings and therefore it may very well have been your own father who took the 'missing thousands' from the safe - not for the life of him believing he'd be murdered - he left the safe door open as he may easily have done previously if in a rush, then locked the internal door - and left.

*However, when he reached the bar - he may have allowed a familiar face to come in (he knew him, felt safe, if not in control) whom he'd helped before. When he said no - he may have been literally taken by surprise & side-swiped. A bloody fight ensued and the 'thousands' he himself may have taken from the safe could have been stolen . He may have been shot so as not to identify the perp and bundled into another vehicle. He could have been taped up semi-conscious so as not to arouse suspicion; the perp may not have been convinced he was dead or - to stop him defending himself.

The perp may not even have known about the $740 in his top pocket... but took his cigarettes (agree with previous poster - he's possibly a smoker) cell phone and keys. He's definitely local, definitely knew your dad - probably even went to the funeral. Are there any tapes of the funeral? Would you (and those close to Joe), all this time later, be able to identify those he'd helped out? Maybe this person would have wanted no waves; just blend in and be a part of a bigger crowd...

If you haven't seen the ME report - you wont know if there was water on his lungs
Greed, sex, drugs, rock n roll and alcohol are key reasons for murder. The ghastly final act being of revenge ---> no witnesses & utter paranoia.

.
there were a few passerbys that had seen a red truck. the road around the bar is slightly downhill from the bar. you can tell this from the pictures on kay sullivans realty website. so if you drove by the bar you actually made a semi circle around the edge of the property. maybe if you were driving by and not knowing you would need to recall what you saw, the vehicles may look smaller from down the slight decline to the road. i do not think her vehicle is one of interest. they checked it over before it was released and also verified that she was at work at her other job before she went to bar to work.

*Gf has another bf and has not been heard from in months. Her bf now is older as well. some traffic tickets and dui on her record. Nothing else that i know of. She has not contacted us in several months

*My dad did not want to buy another bar. He actually would have sold the Long Branch. It took up a lot of time, it was more of a hobby/hang out for him

*Joe did use the bank. No he was not planning any large transactions. The Long Branch was a karaoke bar, with 2 pool tables. The juke box had a variety of music with country and rock. He served popcorn and had other snacks available. They served beer and wine coolers only.

I had a news interview with Channel 40/29 News out of Ft Smith Ark. yesterday. The big story is going to air on Monday night at 10 pm. This is also about Jody Wilson too.

In jody's thread that she apparently knew the owners of "the bar" in poteau, and supposedly it was sold shortly after jody went missing on may 5. Wondering if joe was interested in buying that business, and somebody else didn't want that to happen.
____________________________________________________________

Questions:

-Was Gf mentioned in obit why/why not?
-What is the girlfriends name???????
-Why is Gf name NEVER publically mentioned?
-What kind of relationship did Gf & your Dad have? How long were they together?
-What is the girlfriend's new boyfriend's name(information)--->
-What evidence have LE found with the security camera inside the bar?
-What lead LE to search areas??
-Was Joe found closer to his house or bar??
-previous gfs??? who might have been harboring jealousy that he broke up with
-Any autopsy results?

__________________________________________________________
LINKS:

http://www.4029tv.com/news/19467846/detail.html#

http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2009/05/23/obituaries/all_obituaries/obits05.txt

http://www.4029tv.com/news/22503039/detail.html

http://missingexploited.com/2009/05...s-of-a-struggle-in-bar-update-found-deceased/

Fired Oklahoma examiner http://www.newsok.com/fired-oklahom...2?custom_click=lead_story_title#ixzz0fAnplvxY
 
Regarding the security cameras, they either must have been inoperative or ineffective, or they must have recorded an inconvenient truth.
 
Sailor, I think these questions are really important..If MMD can answer these it would help especially about the GF..why are they keeping her identity a secret.??___________________________________________________________

Questions:

-Was Gf mentioned in obit why/why not?
-What is the girlfriends name???????
-Why is Gf name NEVER publically mentioned?
-What kind of relationship did Gf & your Dad have? How long were they together?
-What is the girlfriend's new boyfriend's name(information)--->
-What evidence have LE found with the security camera inside the bar?
-What lead LE to search areas??
-Was Joe found closer to his house or bar??
-previous gfs??? who might have been harboring jealousy that he broke up with
-Any autopsy results?

__________________________________________________________
LINKS:

http://www.4029tv.com/news/19467846/detail.html#

http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2009/05/23/obituaries/all_obituaries/obits05.txt

http://www.4029tv.com/news/22503039/detail.html

http://missingexploited.com/2009/05...s-of-a-struggle-in-bar-update-found-deceased/

Fired Oklahoma examiner http://www.newsok.com/fired-oklahom...2?custom_click=lead_story_title#ixzz0fAnplvxY[/quote]
 
Questions:

-Was Gf mentioned in obit why/why not? we did not know her well enough to mention her in the paper. they did not live together and were not real serious.

-What is the girlfriends name??????? I thought names were off limits unless they had been published in a newspaper somewhere? I am new to this so someone tell me the rules on this before I answer and get in trouble.

-Why is Gf name NEVER publically mentioned? again, none of the family knew her very well. she avoided it too I guess. she doesn't come around now either.

-What kind of relationship did Gf & your Dad have? dad said she was easy to get along with they went out riding, whatever, not serious

How long were they together? they dated about a year, but became more frequent toward the end

What is the girlfriend's new boyfriend's name(information)---> waiting on info

-What evidence have LE found with the security camera inside the bar? still unknown

-What lead LE to search areas?? not sure, i think since home was robbed they searched the area just to see, he had not been located still at that point

-Was Joe found closer to his house or bar?? okay picture map, point A bar-2 1/2 miles north, his home, point B, continue heading north, then east about 20 miles total, this is the location he was found. there are maps on an earlier post.

-previous gfs??? who might have been harboring jealousy that he broke up with. he was married to my mom 25 years, dated one woman 8 yrs, then another for 6 (she passed away from liver disease), then this one, that is really the only ones that have been for any length of time.

-Any autopsy results? none yet, they are still waiting on some things
 
My thoughts in bold red


Sailor Bug said:
WHO MURDERERED of Joe Neff
(July 31, 1947 - May 14, 2009)

Please just copy paste or add/correct any information/questions or even if you just want to improve what we have here...Thanks
Click to expand...

-Joe Neff was last seen at about 9-10AM Thursday in a local store paid his water bill around 10 am then went across the street to Napa and paid his bill there. Prior to that, a female (Joe's Gf saw him at 7am) said LeFlore County Sheriff Bruce Curnutt.

How much was the water & Napa bill & did he usually pay cash or check? Was the water bill for the house & bar? As most of us know Napa is an auto parts store - curious what Joe would have bought there that he had a tab?



-The saloon was equipped with security cameras, but authorities have yet to review any footage. There is a surveillance camera that still remains in the bar. LE said hey had the tape from this system. However, they would never say if it captured what happened in the bar.



-Neff kept a safe inside a room in his Poteau home. Investigators said thousands of dollars were taken from the safe.


__________________________________________________________

Important info:


*You then wrote something quite poignant - very early on - regarding the (good) advice your dad gave you: "Don't ever lend more than you're willing to give away...". there may be one or more whom your father decided he was not prepared to give any more?

My opinion is that Joe would have given someone anything

*I cannot really imagine him ever telling someone no. He helped everyone. He felt that if they asked for it, they needed it worse than he did. He would go without before he would deny someone anything they needed. I think it is likely that this person was accompanied by a stranger (to Joe), who probably was the killer.


If you haven't seen the ME report - you wont know if there was water on his lungs
Might be time to retain an attorney for the family

In jody's thread that she apparently knew the owners of "the bar" in poteau, and supposedly it was sold shortly after jody went missing on may 5. Wondering if joe was interested in buying that business, and somebody else didn't want that to happen.

I honestly don't feel the 2 cases are connected
 
missingmydad said:
-Was Gf mentioned in obit why/why not? we did not know her well enough to mention her in the paper. they did not live together and were not real serious.

-What is the girlfriends name??????? I thought names were off limits unless they had been published in a newspaper somewhere? I am new to this so someone tell me the rules on this before I answer and get in trouble.

-Why is Gf name NEVER publically mentioned? again, none of the family knew her very well. she avoided it too I guess. she doesn't come around now either.

-What kind of relationship did Gf & your Dad have? dad said she was easy to get along with they went out riding, whatever, not serious

How long were they together? they dated about a year, but became more frequent toward the end

What is the girlfriend's new boyfriend's name(information)---> waiting on info

-What evidence have LE found with the security camera inside the bar? still unknown

-What lead LE to search areas?? not sure, i think since home was robbed they searched the area just to see, he had not been located still at that point

-Was Joe found closer to his house or bar?? okay picture map, point A bar-2 1/2 miles north, his home, point B, continue heading north, then east about 20 miles total, this is the location he was found. there are maps on an earlier post.

-previous gfs??? who might have been harboring jealousy that he broke up with. he was married to my mom 25 years, dated one woman 8 yrs, then another for 6 (she passed away from liver disease), then this one, that is really the only ones that have been for any length of time.

-Any autopsy results? none yet, they are still waiting on some things
Click to expand...

My opinion is that I would not be posting any names. We've never seen her name in print; if we did, it would have been posted.

Oklahoma unexplained killings Blog by Roselvr
Content

Map 1. Missing Family, Jody-Rilee Wilson & Joe Neff

Red Oak, Oklahoma - Bobby & Sherilynn Jamison plus their 6-year-old daughter Madyson
Wister OK - Jody Rilee Wilson
Poteau OK - Joe Neff

Map 2 Jody Rilee Wilson & Joe Neff

1. Long Branch Saloon 68155 Hwy 59 Poteau, OK 74953 - Joes bar
2. Country Club Rd Poteau, OK 74953 Joes house
3. Davis St Pocola, OK 74902 Strip Pit body found
4. Wister, OK - Jody's town
5. Poteau Mountain Heavener, OK 74937 - Jodys body
6. Huckleberry's Pig Out Palace Old US Highway 62 Hoffman, OK 74437 - Jody's car

Map 3 Joe Neff map 1

A. Long Branch Saloon 68155 Hwy 59, Poteau, OK
B. Country Club Rd, Poteau, Le Flore, Oklahoma 74953
C. Davis St, Pocola, OK 74902

Map 4 Joe Neff Map 2 - Back way to Strip Pit, House omitted.

1. Long Branch Saloon 68155 Hwy 59, Poteau, OK
2. Davis St, Pocola, OK 74902

Map 5


Jody-Rilee Wilson & Joe Neff - draft 1 By Roselvr
Content

Map 1. Missing Family, Jody-Rilee Wilson & Joe Neff

Red Oak, Oklahoma - Bobby & Sherilynn Jamison plus their 6-year-old daughter Madyson
Wister OK - Jody Rilee Wilson
Poteau OK - Joe Neff

Map 2 Jody Rilee Wilson & Joe Neff

1. Long Branch Saloon 68155 Hwy 59 Poteau, OK 74953 - Joes bar
2. Country Club Rd Poteau, OK 74953 Joes house
3. Davis St Pocola, OK 74902 Strip Pit body found
4. Wister, OK - Jody's town
5. Poteau Mountain Heavener, OK 74937 - Jodys body
6. Huckleberry's Pig Out Palace Old US Highway 62 Hoffman, OK 74437 - Jody's car

Map 3 Joe Neff map 1

A. Long Branch Saloon 68155 Hwy 59, Poteau, OK
B. Country Club Rd, Poteau, Le Flore, Oklahoma 74953
C. Davis St, Pocola, OK 74902

Map 4 Joe Neff Map 2 - Back way to Strip Pit, House omitted.

1. Long Branch Saloon 68155 Hwy 59, Poteau, OK
2. Davis St, Pocola, OK 74902
 
Hello to all, new to WS, have a few comments that I`m not sure will help or not. Lived in OK for over 20 years now but not from here. After 20 years still an outsider in my community. We`re talking clannish here. Connections go back generations and so do grudges. It`s not surprising noboby is local is talking about this case. In rural Oklahoma you`d be lucky to get the time of day if you`re not from around there. What gets me is the large number of unsolved cases in that area. Just an opinion here but it all seems connected with the mountain. Also want to throw out a little detail that may or may not have any meaning, There are more people from Las Vegas in those hills than people realize. Also investigate a little community called Castoway Cove and see what you come up with.
 
missingmydad said:
I make myself get up everyday and keep going, even though I don't want to sometimes. I really miss him a lot. It has been over 10 months, still no arrests. I pray that the killers will be arrrested very soon. I hate knowing that they are walking free and could kill again at anytime. Who might they kill next time? Someone out there knows information about my dads murder. I hope they realize that someone they love could be the next victim. They are also criminals for with-holding that information. I hope they are put in jail along with the killers. I hope the judgment they deserve comes quickly.:praying::praying::praying:
Click to expand...

I can't imagine what you are going through.
I haven't been around because this case eats my heart due to losing my own dad. My dad's 4 yr was 2/6 - then my birthday 3/2.. it was just so hard to come to this post.

My advice would be to retain an attorney.
.
 
Welcome willwag! Glad you are here..thanks for the local perspective...I am continually dumbfounded at the constantly increasing number of unsolved Oklahoma homicides that are covered here. It is absolutely frightening. I never knew about any of them except the Waleetka girls until I joined here - what an eye-opening experience. As we've stated before, you just have to pray that you aren't murdered, raped or inexplicably disappear while in the state of Oklahoma. Sad state of affairs. I'm off to google Castoway Cove......sounds intriguing....
 
Blondie in Spokane said:
Welcome willwag! Glad you are here..thanks for the local perspective...I am continually dumbfounded at the constantly increasing number of unsolved Oklahoma homicides that are covered here. It is absolutely frightening. I never knew about any of them except the Waleetka girls until I joined here - what an eye-opening experience. As we've stated before, you just have to pray that you aren't murdered, raped or inexplicably disappear while in the state of Oklahoma. Sad state of affairs. I'm off to google Castoway Cove......sounds intriguing....
Click to expand...

Oklahoma really isn't that bad murder in the south easter part of Oklahoma use to be unheard of. The town I was born and raised has only had 2 murders in the last 10 years. One was a family fight and the other was teens being stupid. So its odd that there this many unsloved in a short period of time there. The biggest problem Oklahoma has is drugs. They are every where and alot people have their hands in on making money off them.
 
thanks roselvr, i am so sorry about your dad too. no matter how they die it is still hard if you are a daddys girl. i agree about putting the gf name on here. i thought i had read when i first came here that names were not allowed unless it was in print already. i am sorry though. i wish i could give her name if i thought it would help. i think he always kept an account open there at napa and at the hardware store etc. He had accounts set up then he could run and get something if he needed it. then pay all at once each month. he probably paid cash but i am not sure. it may depend on the amount of charges each month. he was last seen at 10:30, this we know for sure. unfortunately oklahoma is not as safe as it used to be. its really quite sad. i do not trust people. honestly why should you trust? look where that trust leaves you.....
 
MMD....I had a bunch of links and lost them...will re-research and re-do for you....I'll get them to you in the next day or so. Thinking of you and your dad. Hang in there. Please try to have a good Easter.
 
I have just spent all day reading this entire thread and .... wow. You guys rock. Keep up the great work. I'll just sit and read and ponder. I have nothing of substance to add that hasn't already been brought up.

MMD, I'm so sorry for all you have been through. Your Dad sounds like he was such a wonderful person who deserved so much better. I hope LE is going to do something, anything to move this case forward. I really don't understand why they are being so standoffish with you. Surely there is a lot of information they could impart to you that would not hamper their investigation. Some of it is pretty basic stuff. I find it very, very odd that they continue to stonewall you after all this time. Perhaps they are embarrassed that they appear so totally clueless?
 
MMD....I am not sure if this has come up but have you pondered the idea of hiring a private investigator? I have to agree with Belinda that LE should not be stonewalling you or your family, but, sadly, I expect it with Oklahoma LE from what I have learned here at Websleuths. (I will have to re-read this thread once again as there is so much information that I know I have forgotten.)
 
~Bump~ This brings it up on the list, right? I just finished reading this whole thing yesterday and feel it is so important to keep it up there.
 
Hello there! thanks so much. I have spoken with several private investigators. The info that I get is they normally work on cheating spouses, insurance fraud, things of that nature. I can only assume this is because they would not be allowed access to the list of persons of interests, the interviews, evidence, etc. There are so many privacy laws it amazes me that they can solve anything. I understand privacy but if you are a suspect on a murder case I think your rights should be temporarily waived. JMO I have a whole new outlook on things since dads murder, and not all of it is good, its sad to say. I just do not know who to harass next....I have e-mailed so many people. There is not any responses coming back. Ideas are welcome. Please, I have not had a good nights sleep in 320 days. I cannot believe he has been gone that long. Of course to me it feels like 3 thousand days. I miss him so much, I hurt. I have been asked "You wouldn't bring him back to this cruel world, would you?" I am so sorry but the amswer is yes. I need my daddy. He was my friend, my real friend. He loved me and I loved him. I cannot wait to see him again. In the meantime, please pray that we find his killer(s) quickly. Thanks so much everyone.
 
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