Conrad Murray Trial - Day Twenty

Ohhhhh, thanks. I hurt my ribs this morning (yes, indeed), and your Floyd picture made me LOL... :floorlaugh:...and it hurt. But it was worth it.
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Still laughing.:lol: Ouch-Ha-ha :laugh:eek:uch-ha-ouch:lol:ha-ha..ouch...:giggle:


OH NO, borndem,
Not another WSer with a rib injury!

I hope it's not too bad... and I hope you feel better soon!
Get a blanket, get comfy on the couch and enjoy the game tonight! :)
 
Can CM ask for a plea bargin now or is it too late? 'Cause if I was him I sure would.

In NC, a plea can be accepted at least up to when it goes to the jury -- I'm not sure about a plea when it's in the jury room...probably even then.

No idea what it is in CA... is the plea thing a federal or a state law?
 
There's not much to plea "to" at this point. Had the State charged Murray with Murder, perhaps they would have been able to plea it down to involuntary manslaughter, but as it is, it is about the lowest crime they could have charged, given that there is a dead body here.
 
Ohhhhh, thanks. I hurt my ribs this morning (yes, indeed), and your Floyd picture made me LOL... :floorlaugh:...and it hurt. But it was worth it.
icon10.gif


Still laughing.:lol: Ouch-Ha-ha :laugh:eek:uch-ha-ouch:lol:ha-ha..ouch...:giggle:
LOLOLOL
Yes, I'm laughing.
NOT because you've injured your ribs! That's painful and I'm so sorry for you!
But because of the way you explain how they are hurting:
Still laughing.:lol: Ouch-Ha-ha :laugh:eek:uch-ha-ouch:lol:ha-ha..ouch...:giggle:

OK, I'll tone it down to a slight giggle. :)
 
It would not show any post-mortem anything in the urine. When the heart stops, circulation stops, and movement of fluids stops. So whatever's in there would be circulated while the heart/circulation is moving it around. And in some deaths, certain systems start to shut down before death, and kidneys are often some of the first to cease.

Borndem, or anyone who happens to hop on here and can possibly explain......

If the kidneys start to shut down almost a week before death and the patient's ankles, legs and thighs are triple their already overweight size, does all that fluid deplete from the body soon after death?

And I'll try not to be too morbid and gross, but does that fluid exit the body, say....when the body is moved when the mortuary comes to the house to pick up the body?

If the body had been slightly elevated at the head when death occurred, and remained elevated for about 6 hours, would putting the body in a supine position about 6 hours after death cause all that fluid that was built up in the legs to end up in the hips, chest and face of the deceased?

I know, I know.....strange questions.
But if I can't ask my new buddies here, I don't know where else I'd ask without getting some really strange stares. :)
 
Borndem, or anyone who happens to hop on here and can possibly explain......

If the kidneys start to shut down almost a week before death and the patient's ankles, legs and thighs are triple their already overweight size, does all that fluid deplete from the body soon after death?

And I'll try not to be too morbid and gross, but does that fluid exit the body, say....when the body is moved when the mortuary comes to the house to pick up the body?

If the body had been slightly elevated at the head when death occurred, and remained elevated for about 6 hours, would putting the body in a supine position about 6 hours after death cause all that fluid that was built up in the legs to end up in the hips, chest and face of the deceased?

I know, I know.....strange questions.
But if I can't ask my new buddies here, I don't know where else I'd ask without getting some really strange stares. :)

My husband had edema in his lower legs for about a month or so before he died. Now he was dehydrated, (long story, his choice- no life support,fluids, etc) but he didn't loose any fluids or anything else when he passed here at home. I know because I washed his body before the funeral home came. It was somewhere between 1/2 hour to maybe 45 mins. Only my experience maybe one of our nurses know.
 
The graph they are showing now shows + - certainty (50%). So that is pretty darn high. + - certainty is usually 3% to 5% in most statistics. Talk about making the statistics say what you want them to.

That graph would get an "F" in the statistics class I attended.

C'mon, Doc. Have you changed your schtick to comedy now? Probably a good idea, 'cause the other stuff wasn't working out any too good.
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Well I know my hubby will happy when this is over. Poor thing has had late dinners almost every week night this trial has been on due to time difference as I am ET :floorlaugh:

Same here, Credence....EST...

Yeah, I'm sitting here at the PC, the TV's on HLN -- in the same spot he found me yesterday, and the day before, and the day before.

So I say hi, he says hi, and punctuates it with an exaggerated roll of his eyes. But, because this case is medical, I always ask him cardio & other questions & it lightens the mood a bit -- as dinner is sloooowly cooking. Sounds like your house, right??
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I'm still cleaning up after the "other" trial! 3 years of my life that one took. Obviously, that's why I was way behind on this one.

As for what to do, I'll just reload my closet since it's been tiled and painted. All I have to do is press every item of clothing I own. :crazy:

My thoughts will be on the cross examination of Dr. White. It's going to be awesome.

I hope we can all spend a moment this weekend opining on what Walgren could ask.

My choice is that he end with Shafer's 17 violations of standards of conduct and ask White which ones he believes Murray violated. Flanagan already mentioned the "elephant" in the room and White agreed it was a violation. Well, there are 16 more to go. This IS a standard of care case, anyway.

All Walgren's witnesses to standards of care agreed that, even IF MJ injected himself, it was because of Murray's bad behavior.

I also hope he can un-confuse the jury from today with his wonderful questioning techniques. Please, keep it simple!

1. Are you aware that the propofol bottle did NOT have Mr. Jackson's fingerprints on it?

2. Are you aware that the propofol bottle only had the fingerprint of Murray?

3. Do you have proof that the statement given by Murray is absolutely the truth?

4. Are you aware that the syringes for the versed and ativan were never found at the scene?

5. Did you read the transcript of Murray's interview where he mentions giving a drip? Even correcting LE when they got it wrong?

6. Did you take notice that Murray said 'initial' dose when talking about the 25 mgs?

7. Are you telling this jury if Murray gave Mr. Jackson benzos and propofol in a home setting without monitoring that it meets the standard of care threshold expected?

8. Do you believe 911 should be sought immediately or do you believe it is acceptable to wait 20 minutes or more?

9. Did you base most of your theory on Murray's statement to LE?

10. Are you being paid to give your opinion in this case?

11. If so, how much?

12. If you had a patient in dire straights would you call down to hospital security or would you summon medical staff to assist you instead?

13. Do you believe it is acceptable for a doctor to lie to EMTs, ER staff and LE?
 
OMG! I am so pumped up. I cant hardly wait for Monday to come.:floorlaugh:

Hubby is off on vacation too but he knows I am following this case minute by minute so I will get to see the cross! Yippee!:great:

Come Monday it ain't gonna be pretty for Dr. White.

The gloves will come off. lol

IMO

Yes, indeed-y, ocean. No more Mr. Nice Guy for you, buddy-boy!. :doorhide: :bricks:....:slapfight:.......:wolf2:.........:soldier:.......:lick:....:python:.....:turkey:.....:violin:
 
:boohoo:
OMG! I am so pumped up. I cant hardly wait for Monday to come.:floorlaugh:

Hubby is off on vacation too but he knows I am following this case minute by minute so I will get to see the cross! Yippee!:great:

Come Monday it ain't gonna be pretty for Dr. White.

The gloves will come off. lol

IMO

Yes, indeed-y, ocean. No more Mr. Nice Guy for you, buddy-boy!. :doorhide: :bricks:....:slapfight:.......:wolf2:.........:soldier:.......:lick:....:python:.....:turkey:...:violin:......:boohoo:
 
Thirty-two plus years of marriage......I've lived for Fridays. I've always hated Mondays because Mr. would have to go back to work.
Mr. Amity gets off work, we enjoy a cup of coffee under the pav and discuss what plans we have for the weekend....whether it's working on the house or commitments we've made for a birthday party, shower, wedding etc.

It's a routine we both have looked forward to and have only broken 3 or 4 times during all those years.

How sad is this........
This Friday?
I CAN'T FRICKEN WAIT FOR MONDAY TO GET HERE!

There, I said it. But if any of you tell Mr. Amity I said it, I'll deny, deny, deny. :)

Colonoscopy: A walk in the park! OK, well, almost.
The worst part, at least for me is the time I had to spend in the bathroom with the whole household and two visiting cousins not only knowing why, but HEARING why.

Eyebrows: The first time my sister was dx'd (6 years ago), we all shaved off our eyebrows and wore cute, fun knitted caps whenever the family had a family gathering to attend.
She was soooo self-conscious that we all figured it was a way to help her feel better, feel like she would blend in better.
It worked and we are soooo glad we did it.
UNTIL....... at my age, eyebrows don't grow back like they were before.
Three hairs here, a firebreak, a few hairs there, another firebreak and instead of the hair coming in auburn/brown, those thick things came in jet black!

Because I was/am a very large woman (read: Obese) and because at the time I was going through some major hot flashes due to some medication, I went on a quest to find the most waterproof eyebrow pencil or powder I could find, that would not end up running down into my chin when I sweat especially during the summer.

After almost a four year search I finally found the perfect eyebrow liner.
I mean this stuff is Kryptonite!
A little over a week ago I slept in a little storage room (used to be a single/private room) at Loma Linda Hospital for two nights, no shower. Hot, HOT, stuffy room.
Never bothered to look in a mirror, just ran fingers through top of hair and pulled it back into a ponytail a couple times a day.
When I got home and got ready to take my shower, looked in the mirror and my eyebrows looked exactly like they did the morning I put them on 2.5 days prior!

Stila - Stay All Day Waterproof liquid eye liner.
Yes, I know it's eyeliner but the tip is soooo fine/thin that I was able to use it on my brows with no problem. I can actually draw little lines as fine as eyebrow hairs.
Just make sure you have no oil or moisturizer on the brows.....start with them clean and dry.

I bought the dark brown and it's dark enough that it blends in well with my black brows....gives them a more natural look rather than all jet black. Like very subtle highlighted hairs in the brow.
Speaking of brows, I best go take care of the strays that are coming in where they aren't supposed to be....like halfway up my forehead...... EEEEK!
This getting old thing sure ain't for sissys! :)

Or, as the Stones sing in Mother's Little Helper, "What a drag it is getting old."

Loved your story, Amity!
 
1. Are you aware that the propofol bottle did NOT have Mr. Jackson's fingerprints on it?

2. Are you aware that the propofol bottle only had the fingerprint of Murray?

3. Do you have proof that the statement given by Murray is absolutely the truth?

4. Are you aware that the syringes for the versed and ativan were never found at the scene?

5. Did you read the transcript of Murray's interview where he mentions giving a drip? Even correcting LE when they got it wrong?

6. Did you take notice that Murray said 'initial' dose when talking about the 25 mgs?

7. Are you telling this jury if Murray gave Mr. Jackson benzos and propofol in a home setting without monitoring that it meets the standard of care threshold expected?

8. Do you believe 911 should be sought immediately or do you believe it is acceptable to wait 20 minutes or more?

9. Did you base most of your theory on Murray's statement to LE?

10. Are you being paid to give your opinion in this case?

11. If so, how much?

12. If you had a patient in dire straights would you call down to hospital security or would you summon medical staff to assist you instead?

13. Do you believe it is acceptable for a doctor to lie to EMTs, ER staff and LE?

And finally Dr. White:

14. Would you permit Dr. Murray to administer any type of anesthetic medication to you or a loved one?

I imagine a deer in the headlights look on that question.
 
Thirty-two plus years of marriage......I've lived for Fridays. I've always hated Mondays because Mr. would have to go back to work.
Mr. Amity gets off work, we enjoy a cup of coffee under the pav and discuss what plans we have for the weekend....whether it's working on the house or commitments we've made for a birthday party, shower, wedding etc.

It's a routine we both have looked forward to and have only broken 3 or 4 times during all those years.

How sad is this........
This Friday?
I CAN'T FRICKEN WAIT FOR MONDAY TO GET HERE!

There, I said it. But if any of you tell Mr. Amity I said it, I'll deny, deny, deny. :)

Colonoscopy: A walk in the park! OK, well, almost.
The worst part, at least for me is the time I had to spend in the bathroom with the whole household and two visiting cousins not only knowing why, but HEARING why.

Eyebrows: The first time my sister was dx'd (6 years ago), we all shaved off our eyebrows and wore cute, fun knitted caps whenever the family had a family gathering to attend.
She was soooo self-conscious that we all figured it was a way to help her feel better, feel like she would blend in better.
It worked and we are soooo glad we did it.
UNTIL....... at my age, eyebrows don't grow back like they were before.
Three hairs here, a firebreak, a few hairs there, another firebreak and instead of the hair coming in auburn/brown, those thick things came in jet black!

Because I was/am a very large woman (read: Obese) and because at the time I was going through some major hot flashes due to some medication, I went on a quest to find the most waterproof eyebrow pencil or powder I could find, that would not end up running down into my chin when I sweat especially during the summer.

After almost a four year search I finally found the perfect eyebrow liner.
I mean this stuff is Kryptonite!
A little over a week ago I slept in a little storage room (used to be a single/private room) at Loma Linda Hospital for two nights, no shower. Hot, HOT, stuffy room.
Never bothered to look in a mirror, just ran fingers through top of hair and pulled it back into a ponytail a couple times a day.
When I got home and got ready to take my shower, looked in the mirror and my eyebrows looked exactly like they did the morning I put them on 2.5 days prior!

Stila - Stay All Day Waterproof liquid eye liner.
Yes, I know it's eyeliner but the tip is soooo fine/thin that I was able to use it on my brows with no problem. I can actually draw little lines as fine as eyebrow hairs.
Just make sure you have no oil or moisturizer on the brows.....start with them clean and dry.

I bought the dark brown and it's dark enough that it blends in well with my black brows....gives them a more natural look rather than all jet black. Like very subtle highlighted hairs in the brow.
Speaking of brows, I best go take care of the strays that are coming in where they aren't supposed to be....like halfway up my forehead...... EEEEK!
This getting old thing sure ain't for sissys! :)

Or, as the Stones sing in Mother's Little Helper, "What a drag it is, getting old."

Loved your story, Amity!
 
There's not much to plea "to" at this point. Had the State charged Murray with Murder, perhaps they would have been able to plea it down to involuntary manslaughter, but as it is, it is about the lowest crime they could have charged, given that there is a dead body here.

Agreed. I was thinking he might wanna just enter a "no contest" plea if that's allowed in CA -- dunno. Or might just wanna stop the stampede and plead guilty, thinking he could work out some kind of "favorable" sentence.

Otherwise, he just has to watch and keep his fingers crossed. All of 'em.
 
And finally Dr. White:

14. Would you permit Dr. Murray to administer any type of anesthetic medication to you or a loved one?

I imagine a deer in the headlights look on that question.

Dr White's answer will be the same as Dorothy Sims' when Joy B asked her if she'd let Casey Anthony babysit her kids!

Dorothy Sims: "Um uh err ah mmm umm. My kids are too big. But I think she's very nice. Very likable."

Dr White: "Um uh err ah mmm umm. My loved ones aren't sick. But I think he's very nice. Very likable."
 
LOLOLOL
Yes, I'm laughing.
NOT because you've injured your ribs! That's painful and I'm so sorry for you!
But because of the way you explain how they are hurting:
Still laughing.:lol: Ouch-Ha-ha :laugh:eek:uch-ha-ouch:lol:ha-ha..ouch...:giggle:

OK, I'll tone it down to a slight giggle. :)

That's fine, Amity -- I'm already much better -- just pinched one a tad.

LazyWoman that I yam, I was in my car, at the end of our driveway, stopped to bend over from my car seat w'seatbelt on, to pick up the NY Times. I had to reallllllly bend over, 'cause I didn't aim the car too well to lazily pick the dayam thing up. So ouch! It took my breath away & brought tears to my eyes :anguish: Poor, poor, pitiful me. :violin:

True story, soap-opera style....
 
I was just reading Alan Duke's story @ CNN, that stated that White said he just couldn't figure out where the State got the idea that CM was infusing propofol that fateful day. Well, it was the conclusion of not only Dr. Murray but Dr. Steinberg, as well.

Another random thought: If Murray was only giving MJ 25 mg. of propofol, why were all those other bottles lying around, the ones that he ordered Alberto Alvarez to put in the bag (and that were subsequently found in the bag)?

I think this jury is likely to focus on things like the above: the common sense stuff. The battle of the nerds with graphs and mathematical models is all well and good, but I suspect a jury will decide based upon the things they "know". At least, I certainly hope so.
 
1. Are you aware that the propofol bottle did NOT have Mr. Jackson's fingerprints on it?

2. Are you aware that the propofol bottle only had the fingerprint of Murray?

3. Do you have proof that the statement given by Murray is absolutely the truth?

4. Are you aware that the syringes for the versed and ativan were never found at the scene?

5. Did you read the transcript of Murray's interview where he mentions giving a drip? Even correcting LE when they got it wrong?

6. Did you take notice that Murray said 'initial' dose when talking about the 25 mgs?

7. Are you telling this jury if Murray gave Mr. Jackson benzos and propofol in a home setting without monitoring that it meets the standard of care threshold expected?

8. Do you believe 911 should be sought immediately or do you believe it is acceptable to wait 20 minutes or more?

9. Did you base most of your theory on Murray's statement to LE?

10. Are you being paid to give your opinion in this case?

11. If so, how much?

12. If you had a patient in dire straights would you call down to hospital security or would you summon medical staff to assist you instead?

13. Do you believe it is acceptable for a doctor to lie to EMTs, ER staff and LE?


:goodpost:
 

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