ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

bessie · Jul 27, 2015

ADMIN NOTE: Welcome to our new members.

If you haven't done so yet, please take a little time to review THE RULES forum, particularly Etiquette & Information.

In the meantime, I'll give you the run down on a few important ones.

Rumors and gossip are NOT allowed on WS. If you read it on Facebook, leave it on Facebook.
Unless LE indicates that an individual is a POI/suspect, that individual is OFF LIMITS to sleuthing and speculation. Please keep your suspicions to yourself.
WS holds to a "victim friendly" policy, so the above applies even more strongly to family members, particularly parents and spouses, who in most cases are innocent, and suffering terribly when their loved one is missing or murdered. The last thing we want to do is add to their pain. Therefore, they always are granted the benefit of the doubt.
Brainstorming theories is encouraged, but must be based on fact. For our purposes, "fact" refers to information published in the mainstream media (MSM) or other acceptable sources, such as academic and professional publications.
When you state something as "fact", you must back it up with a link to an approved source.
If you can't link it, you can't post it.
Social media is a nightmare in terms of rumors. You can summarize information from an original post on a LE or MSM FB page. No copy and paste, no screenshots, and you must include link.
Comments and posts by the general public are considered rumor, and therefore, off limits. Again, leave them where you find them.
Mods have the right to edit and delete posts at their discretion if deemed inappropriate, or in violation of TOS. Complaints, questions and concerns should be addressed in a private message to a mod or admin. DO NOT post them in the thread.
If at any time, you have questions or need assistance, the mod team is happy to help you. Please use the pm system to contact us.

The above is only a partial list of the rules. You'll find others in the links provided. Please check them out, as it is your responsibility to know them.

One last note:

**LE has stated Deorr's parents are cooperating, and are not considered suspects. Negative comments toward the parents will be met with ZERO TOLERANCE, and result in a TIME OUT, no questions asked.**

:tyou:

Bessie

bessie · Jul 27, 2015

Family friend not a suspect in case of missing 2-year-old, sheriff says
By Nate Sunderland, EastIdahoNews.com | Posted Jul 27th, 2015 @ 10:43am

"Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are "persons of interest" in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case."

"Mitchell and Kunz believe their son was abducted. Bowerman has not ruled abduction out. He said authorities do not suspect foul play, but has said in the past that everything is being considered in the search for the toddler. No suspects have been named in the case."

POI does not equal Suspect, and any one of us who happened to be at the scene, and capable, would be regarded as such, and subjected to questioning by LE. SOP.

The parents and the friend remain OFF LIMITS to sleuthing until, and unless, LE indicates any one or more have been elevated to the level of "Suspect".

You can discuss the contents of the article and video of the friend. Since the criminal history was part of the article, you can discuss it. However, it would be wise to note that the past charges mentioned were related to a contentious domestic situation ten years ago. Not a good thing, but also not consistent with a pedophile or sexual predator.

Linking to and discussing his social media profiles, address, and other personal information is not allowed.

The parents are still considered victims, and as I said in an earlier post, are to be given the benefit of the doubt on this site.

Bessie

rkf · Jul 30, 2015

Let's start a list of statements we want confirmed by LE or MSM. As you think of one, add it to the list and repost. If you have a link, please attach it next to the item on the list. I think we should number the list so we can keep track of which list is most recent. I'll start.

1. Was the store (Stage Stop?) clerk interviewed about a possible 6 pm sighting of DeOrr?
2. Were DeOrr's blanket, cup and monkey in the truck or with DeOrr at the campsite when he disappeared? The blanket was in the truck... Kunz says. http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks
3. How did GGF and IR get to campsite?
4. Does GGF walk with a cane or in a wheelchair?
5. Was camp set up when DK, JM, & little Deorr went back into Store.
6. Is little Deorr talking a lot, making complete sentences?
7. Did IR take a polygraph?
8. What supplies were found at the campsite for DeOrr? (clothing, diapers, food, bottles, toys, sleeping bag)
9. What time was the 2nd 911 call made?
10. Where exactly was IR when Deorr went missing? Was he at the campsite with ggf or elsewhere? They had left the boy with his grandfather and a friend, the Post Register reports. http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/...ontinues-at-reservoir.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
11. Were all four adults at the campsite when LE/SAR arrived? If not, where were they?

starfire · Jul 30, 2015

rkf said:
Let's start a list of statements we want confirmed by LE or MSM. As you think of one, add it to the list and repost. If you have a link, please attach it next to the item on the list. I think we should number the list so we can keep track of which list is most recent. I'll start.

1. Was the store (Stage Stop?) clerk interviewed about a possible 6 pm sighting of DeOrr?
2. Were DeOrr's blanket, cup and monkey in the truck or with DeOrr at the campsite when he disappeared? *http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks
3. How did GGF and IR get to campsite?
4. Does GGF walk with a cane or in a wheelchair?
5. Was camp set up when DK, JM, & little Deorr went back into Store.
6. Is little Deorr talking a lot, making complete sentences?

7. Did IR take a polygraph?

Not_Important_ · Jul 30, 2015

rkf said:
Let's start a list of statements we want confirmed by LE or MSM. As you think of one, add it to the list and repost. If you have a link, please attach it next to the item on the list. I think we should number the list so we can keep track of which list is most recent. I'll start.

1. Was the store (Stage Stop?) clerk interviewed about a possible 6 pm sighting of DeOrr?
2. Were DeOrr's blanket, cup and monkey in the truck or with DeOrr at the campsite when he disappeared? *http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks
3. How did GGF and IR get to campsite?
4. Does GGF walk with a cane or in a wheelchair?
5. Was camp set up when DK, JM, & little Deorr went back into Store.
6. Is little Deorr talking a lot, making complete sentences?
7. Did IR take a polygraph?
8. What supplies were found at the campsite for DeOrr? (clothing, diapers, food, bottles, toys, sleeping bag)

9. What time was the 2nd 911 call made?

TxJan1971 · Jul 30, 2015

gliving said:
They don't say his favs were in the truck, only at the campsite. From CNN transcript:

EATON: Yes, it would be a huge clue. No sight of that. No sight of his toy monkey, of his cup, of his blanket. Those are three items his parents say he always takes with him wherever he goes. Those were left behind at the campsite. No sign of any of those things, no sign of his cowboy boots, of his camouflage jacket that he was wearing, of his pajama pants, nothing."

BBM
Additionally, there has been no sign of the "toy Hot Wheel trucks" he reportedly had in his pocket (and/or was playing with[/B]) per links below:

Link #1
Date Child Reported Missing: Friday, July 10, 2015

Date of Article: Friday, July 17, 2015 - Direct Quote: Missing child's paternal grandfather

While the couple remain up on the mountain waiting for any word of their son, his paternal grandfather, also named DeOrr Kunz, told HLN the family believes little DeOrr may have been kidnapped.

“He had little toy hot wheel trucks in his pocket and nothing fell. They found nothing. It’s like he vanished without a trace. He had to have been abducted. The only good thing about being abducted is it means he’s is still alive,” says Kunz.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

AND

Link #2
Date of Article: Friday, July 17, 2015 - Indirect quote:

On Thursday, his grandfather (note: this is the PATERNAL grandfather of the missing child who was not camping with the family or DK Sr's father) told HLN TV that Deorr had been playing with a toy hot wheels car on the afternoon of his disappearance.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/dive-crews-using-grid-system-food-coloring-in-search-for-deorr/

My thoughts:

1) If DK Jr. was "playing with a toy hot wheels car the afternoon of his disappearance," where is the car(s) (and/or trucks) he was playing with?

2) If he put it/them in his pocket (Link #1) and if an animal attacked/carried him away, what is the possibility those trucks/cars would a) drop out and/or
b) be found by searchers/drones?

3) Any updates since date of articles (7-17-15) from LE specifically about these cars to include:
a) Was LE aware of the need to look for any of these cars and/or trucks?
b) How many cars and/or trucks did the child have or were missing?
c) Will there be an MSM update to address this and/or confirm that as of the current date, none of the child's toy cars have been found?

JMOO

Elainera · Jul 30, 2015

10. where exactly was IR when Deorr went missing? Was he at the campsite with ggf or elsewhere?

(Sorry if this has been answered already)

Jules71 · Jul 30, 2015

Not_Important_ said:
9. What times were the 911 calls made? Specifically the 2nd one made by DK.

2:28 time stamp for Jessica's call. No idea for Deorr's.

ETA: someone mentioned in a previous thread you can hear him calling in while she is on the phone with 911. So I would say within a couple of minutes.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Not_Important_ · Jul 30, 2015

Jules71 said:
2:28 time stamp for Jessica's call. No idea for Deorr's.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Thanks. I edited it for clarity.

Hoosier952 · Jul 30, 2015

Regarding 911 call JM made-

From http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/07/15/3897072_search-continues-at-reservoir.html?rh=1

Lemhi County authorities released a copy of mother Jessica Mitchell’s 911 call reporting her son’s disappearance. Note: This call has been edited for time and to remove personal information.

Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/...ontinues-at-reservoir.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

WhatsupAZ · Jul 30, 2015

The church that people are often referring to in South Idaho is LDS. The skinheads were in way way North Idaho (and they were run off in the 90's). Yes, there are lot's of Potatoes in South Idaho. That should pretty much cover the Idaho steriotyping.

SeriouslySearching · Jul 30, 2015

How does LE proceed from this point after all the logical places to search have been eliminated in and around the campsite?

What other agencies/departments outside of the area are being utilized?

Are those agencies/departments conducting searches in locations near DeOrr Jr.'s home?

Has the FBI been asked to help with this case? If not, why not?

eileenhawkeye · Jul 30, 2015

In the last thread, someone made a good point. I'm on my phone so it's difficult for me to find and quote but the post asked why didn't the sheriff used the word witnesses instead of POIs if he just wanted to emphasis the parents and friends were at the campsite? POI has such a negative connotation, the comments under the KTSB article were all accusing the parents of killing their son. It just seems like a complete unnecessary phrase to use if you think the parents and friend are completely uninvolved...as the other poster said, witnesses would be more appropriate and wouldn't ruin their reputations.

TxJan1971 · Jul 30, 2015

Jules71 said:
2:28 time stamp for Jessica's call. No idea for Deorr's.

ETA: someone mentioned in a previous thread you can hear him calling in while she is on the phone with 911. So I would say within a couple of minutes.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Could dad's be the 2:35 p.m. referred to here?
According to a Salmon Search and Rescue news release, the 911 Dispatch Center received a call from family members at 2:35 p.m. on July 10 that their 2-year-old son had gone missing from their camp. The family told authorities he had been gone for an hour.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-releases-details-on-missing-child/

jmcgladr · Jul 30, 2015

eileenhawkeye said:
In the last thread, someone made a good point. I'm on my phone so it's difficult for me to find and quote but the post asked why didn't the sheriff used the word witnesses instead of POIs if he just wanted to emphasis the parents and friends were at the campsite? POI has such a negative connotation, the comments under the KTSB article were all accusing the parents of killing their son. It just seems like a complete unnecessary phrase to use if you think the parents and friend are completely uninvolved...as the other poster said, witnesses would be more appropriate and wouldn't ruin their reputations.

I agree, and the definition someone provided of "person of interest" seems to indicate that it is not normally something law enforcement typically uses to talk about people who had no involvement whatsoever in the crime/disappearance. I wonder if there are any stats that might indicate how often "person of interest" is downgraded to "not involved" vs. how often "person of interest" is upgraded to "suspect." In most cases I have looked at, POI's ended up becoming suspects once there was more evidence. Admittedly, that is a self-selected sample and not scientific.

Advocate4 · Jul 30, 2015

Towards the end of the last thread, there was discussion about what was meant by the father's comment "replica of a security blanket" in the interview video.

I think what he meant was that the term "security blanket" is a common term for either a blanket or some other toy or belonging that a small child derives comfort from, and here little DeOrr's "security blanket' is an ACTUAL "security BLANKET" so to speak. He could have instead said "it's a perfect example of a security blanket" and meant the same thing, but he used the word "replica".

SeriouslySearching · Jul 30, 2015

TxJan1971 said:
Could dad's be the 2:35 p.m. referred to here?
According to a Salmon Search and Rescue news release, the 911 Dispatch Center received a call from family members at 2:35 p.m. on July 10 that their 2-year-old son had gone missing from their camp. The family told authorities he had been gone for an hour.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-releases-details-on-missing-child/

There is that hour again.

bbm

rkf · Jul 30, 2015

Not_Important_ said:
9. What time was the 2nd 911 call made?

And when can we hear it?!

rkf · Jul 30, 2015

TxJan1971 said:
BBM
Additionally, there has been no sign of the "toy Hot Wheel trucks" he reportedly had in his pocket (and/or was playing with[/B]) per links below:

Link #1
Date Child Reported Missing: Friday, July 10, 2015

Date of Article: Friday, July 17, 2015 - Direct Quote: Missing child's paternal grandfather

While the couple remain up on the mountain waiting for any word of their son, his paternal grandfather, also named DeOrr Kunz, told HLN the family believes little DeOrr may have been kidnapped.

He had little toy hot wheel trucks in his pocket and nothing fell. They found nothing. Its like he vanished without a trace. He had to have been abducted. The only good thing about being abducted is it means hes is still alive, says Kunz.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

AND

Link #2
Date of Article: Friday, July 17, 2015 - Indirect quote:

On Thursday, his grandfather (note: this is the PATERNAL grandfather of the missing child who was not camping with the family or DK Sr's father) told HLN TV that Deorr had been playing with a toy hot wheels car on the afternoon of his disappearance.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/dive-crews-using-grid-system-food-coloring-in-search-for-deorr/

My thoughts:

1) If DK Jr. was "playing with a toy hot wheels car the afternoon of his disappearance," where is the car(s) (and/or trucks) he was playing with?

2) If he put it/them in his pocket (Link #1) and if an animal attacked/carried him away, what is the possibility those trucks/cars would a) drop out and/or
b) be found by searchers/drones?

3) Any updates since date of articles (7-17-15) from LE specifically about these cars to include:
a) Was LE aware of the need to look for any of these cars and/or trucks?
b) How many cars and/or trucks did the child have or were missing?
c) Will there be an MSM update to address this and/or confirm that as of the current date, none of the child's toy cars have been found?

JMOO

How would the paternal grandfather know what DeOrr was doing when he disappeared? He can only repeat what he was told.

Morag · Jul 30, 2015

11. Were all four adults at the campsite when LE/SAR arrived? If not, where were they?

ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

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