always curious
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Hmmm....just digesting information/ideas/opinions from other posters again and have some more food for thought.
Before I say anything....I do not suspect JW more than JR/CR/MB. I honestly don't know which to lean towards as there is no information that tips the scale as to who is guilty. They all have their own alibi's that aren't proven by any sort of video...just word of mouth. But I do believe that she OD'd...just don't know who was present at the time (which would indicate who hid the body).
So on with it. As far as JW not knowing about the fight at SW...I have some what if's of my own. There have been reports on both sides on whether or not there was a friend of JW's involved/witnessed the altercation at SW. That part has been muddy. But my thought is that even if there wasn't a friend (meaning someone who talks to JW that would have his number) directly involved in the altercation....how do we know that the ZO crowd didn't go tell someone at SW who would be a friend of JW. Suppose they were heading to/leaving a party there, which explains their presence...or just visiting someone(s) there...and bragged of their brave story about punching CR (who was with LS) to everyone there. So there was a group of individuals hanging out at a party and one of them happened to be a friend of JW. Can we assume that one of JW's friends would have heard/overheard about the fight that night....and would have definitely text JW about it. This may explain...having a JW friend who knew about the fight that night....that may muddy the water as the story is passed down...that may explain why some think a JW friend was directly involved in the fight. He could have just been around right after it happened when the fight was being bragged about. He almost has firsthand knowledge of the altercation, leading some to believe that he was actually one of the parties present when it happened. Just a thought...which leads into a theory of mine.
So....here's the thought of mine that would make JW seem more suspicious to LE and the Spierer family. I do kind of believe that their pleas are to a friend of LS's (theirs) that they know well....and JW would be the boy that LS and the family would know best. JMO and could definitely be wrong. So what if someone did text him about the fight...which was supposedly after he went to sleep. What if he got those texts but didn't respond...just went looking for LS. What if LE knows about those texts (having his phone records)...but JW's alibi of sleeping is his reason for not responding to texts. Therefore he can say that he didn't know of the fight 'that night'. You can't prove or unprove this alibi and story of not knowing about the fight until the next morning. In fact, he could say that when he woke up and read those texts that itself gave him reason to start worrying that morning. Of course he would tell his friends that he didn't know about the fight that night...which he would back up by saying that he was sleeping (and has his roommate that believes they went to sleep at the same time...as far as he knows).
I'm not saying that this happened. But if so LE has reason to put him on the suspicious list. I just think that there has to be some reason unknown to us that they were...as of the last search with the dogs...still questioning JW's story recently. JR's own story to HT is that LS was heading home at 4:30am. If LS told JR that she was heading to JW's, then we would have heard about that from HT for sure (she likes to tell what she knows). And JW is not on camera anywhere near LS that night...nor is LS heading that way on camera. So why would LE be investigating JW so hard still? It's possible that they are just doing their job and not leaving any stone unturned...I know that. It just looks to me that there is reason to still suspect JW to some degree (meaning LE reason). Keep in mind that he is fully cooperating with LE, has a roommate vouching for his whereabouts at 2:30 and 8:00am, and has LS's roommates observing his concern and helping search for LS. So besides the 5 1/2 hr gap in time while he was sleeping, his story seems to be believable and none of his friends seem to have reason to question his story. I'm just trying to figure out why LE would still be focusing so hard on him. He did have to talk to LE again very recently and submit to a polygraph...which seems like they are still questioning his story. I'm just saying...that's all. Food for thought?? LE knows something that we don't. What could it be? No video evidence of him being around that night, no concrete information sugessting that she was headed to his place, and lots of people who vouch for him. It's been reported from several that it'd be really hard to avoid cameras if JW was involved. Anyone have any thoughts on this particular line of thought? Did he pass the polygraph? Those can be wrong. Even if he failed, they aren't usable in court. And without a body or not circumstantial evidence...how can you make an arrest?
OTOH...From what I see, JW's initial concern seemed warranted, he seems genuinely upset, he's fully cooperating, and no one can debunk his story. So I have a hard time suspecting him. The last one to see her alive is not talking...that's the easiest explanation. JW's involvement would be a really complicated situation on how he pulled it off without being seen at all.
I know some of you think that he jumped the gun on reporting her...but if my SO was supposed to meet up with me one night and didn't and never contacted me, I'd be trying to get ahold of them the next morning too. And if I couldn't get ahold of them after several text messages and calls...I may just call their roommate that afternoon (it was at least noon) to ask if they were still sleeping...especially knowing that they were initially hanging out earlier in the night when JW/LS had discussed meeting up. HT and JW seemed to be cool so why not call or text HT to see. I have contaced my SO's friends before when I became concerned about them and couldn't reach them. Since they live together it would just be the next logical thing to do. Keep in mind that JW couldn't just go over to SW to knock on LS's door as he needed a key to use the elevator up to her floor. So you would normally contact the next logical person. I would think that HT told JW that LS left and went to JR's and that she didn't know if she came home or not. Then when JW discovered that LS hadn't come home that night by going to SW...he would probably contact JR to see if she was there (before going to the police). So if he didn't have JR's number then that would make sense that HT then called JR before going to the police...and HT is reporting to media her call to JR. HT and friends aren't silly enough to involve the police if they hadn't checked with her companion that night first. Details of CR and such didn't even have to be available then. JR's story to HT was enough...she left here at 4:30am and I haven't seen her since...and she didn't arrive home. Now no one knows where she is...and the bar lets them know that she doens't even have her phone with her. HT knew her physical state when she left SW for JR's...and knew that she went there to party more. Normal reaction to me is to start to really worry that something happened to her. You are now stuck and have no idea where she is...and know she was impaired the night before. Why not alert someone of authority at that point. If she turns up then all is good...they aren't going to get in trouble for going to LE since they are concerned. Several people...other than JW...were concerned so that part of the story has always added up to me. And even the later 'official' missing person report by her parents the next day...24 hrs after last being seen per procedure for adults...makes sense. And then her parents even flew out the next day after she didn't show up. LE was just notified of the missing person on Friday. LE probably wasn't too concerned yet as they are college kids and she could have crashed somewhere else. But much of that is assumed...as we don't know actual details...so don't shoot me there. But I'd like someone to tell me how that whole line of thinking would be flawed. Her boyfriend may be jealous and paranoid, but her girlfriends were concerned too so there has to be some logic there.
So I talk about both sides of the coin there. I can't find anything suspicious with JW's story given the info that we know. So maybe there is more to that story.
I still have this gut feeling that the DEA is involved. They have raided twice before in B-town. There were no arrests made. The DEA is very careful about having plenty of evidence before raiding. So what happened there? My hunch is that they are using the college kids to bait a dealer higher up. Happens all of the time. Arresting the low people on the totem pole doesn't really stop the drug use in the community. That would also explain the informant rumors going around. But if DEA performed two raids and no arrests were made...do they just walk away when the drug problem in B-town is known? And now someone OD's from the lack of DEA arrests....how is that going to look? Pretty bad, huh? And keeping those drug dealers under wraps so that they don't give away their case would also be reason why the POI names aren't being released, LE is giving confusing answers a lot of the time, and stuff like that. From what other students are saying (since POI's aren't talking), drugs were involved...and DEA has been in B-town. All speculation...but you draw your own conclusions.
JR and the drug theory...or JW and the jealousy theory. Who knows? Sorry this is so long. I don't post much...not much time...so I crammed it all in one post.
Before I say anything....I do not suspect JW more than JR/CR/MB. I honestly don't know which to lean towards as there is no information that tips the scale as to who is guilty. They all have their own alibi's that aren't proven by any sort of video...just word of mouth. But I do believe that she OD'd...just don't know who was present at the time (which would indicate who hid the body).
So on with it. As far as JW not knowing about the fight at SW...I have some what if's of my own. There have been reports on both sides on whether or not there was a friend of JW's involved/witnessed the altercation at SW. That part has been muddy. But my thought is that even if there wasn't a friend (meaning someone who talks to JW that would have his number) directly involved in the altercation....how do we know that the ZO crowd didn't go tell someone at SW who would be a friend of JW. Suppose they were heading to/leaving a party there, which explains their presence...or just visiting someone(s) there...and bragged of their brave story about punching CR (who was with LS) to everyone there. So there was a group of individuals hanging out at a party and one of them happened to be a friend of JW. Can we assume that one of JW's friends would have heard/overheard about the fight that night....and would have definitely text JW about it. This may explain...having a JW friend who knew about the fight that night....that may muddy the water as the story is passed down...that may explain why some think a JW friend was directly involved in the fight. He could have just been around right after it happened when the fight was being bragged about. He almost has firsthand knowledge of the altercation, leading some to believe that he was actually one of the parties present when it happened. Just a thought...which leads into a theory of mine.
So....here's the thought of mine that would make JW seem more suspicious to LE and the Spierer family. I do kind of believe that their pleas are to a friend of LS's (theirs) that they know well....and JW would be the boy that LS and the family would know best. JMO and could definitely be wrong. So what if someone did text him about the fight...which was supposedly after he went to sleep. What if he got those texts but didn't respond...just went looking for LS. What if LE knows about those texts (having his phone records)...but JW's alibi of sleeping is his reason for not responding to texts. Therefore he can say that he didn't know of the fight 'that night'. You can't prove or unprove this alibi and story of not knowing about the fight until the next morning. In fact, he could say that when he woke up and read those texts that itself gave him reason to start worrying that morning. Of course he would tell his friends that he didn't know about the fight that night...which he would back up by saying that he was sleeping (and has his roommate that believes they went to sleep at the same time...as far as he knows).
I'm not saying that this happened. But if so LE has reason to put him on the suspicious list. I just think that there has to be some reason unknown to us that they were...as of the last search with the dogs...still questioning JW's story recently. JR's own story to HT is that LS was heading home at 4:30am. If LS told JR that she was heading to JW's, then we would have heard about that from HT for sure (she likes to tell what she knows). And JW is not on camera anywhere near LS that night...nor is LS heading that way on camera. So why would LE be investigating JW so hard still? It's possible that they are just doing their job and not leaving any stone unturned...I know that. It just looks to me that there is reason to still suspect JW to some degree (meaning LE reason). Keep in mind that he is fully cooperating with LE, has a roommate vouching for his whereabouts at 2:30 and 8:00am, and has LS's roommates observing his concern and helping search for LS. So besides the 5 1/2 hr gap in time while he was sleeping, his story seems to be believable and none of his friends seem to have reason to question his story. I'm just trying to figure out why LE would still be focusing so hard on him. He did have to talk to LE again very recently and submit to a polygraph...which seems like they are still questioning his story. I'm just saying...that's all. Food for thought?? LE knows something that we don't. What could it be? No video evidence of him being around that night, no concrete information sugessting that she was headed to his place, and lots of people who vouch for him. It's been reported from several that it'd be really hard to avoid cameras if JW was involved. Anyone have any thoughts on this particular line of thought? Did he pass the polygraph? Those can be wrong. Even if he failed, they aren't usable in court. And without a body or not circumstantial evidence...how can you make an arrest?
OTOH...From what I see, JW's initial concern seemed warranted, he seems genuinely upset, he's fully cooperating, and no one can debunk his story. So I have a hard time suspecting him. The last one to see her alive is not talking...that's the easiest explanation. JW's involvement would be a really complicated situation on how he pulled it off without being seen at all.
I know some of you think that he jumped the gun on reporting her...but if my SO was supposed to meet up with me one night and didn't and never contacted me, I'd be trying to get ahold of them the next morning too. And if I couldn't get ahold of them after several text messages and calls...I may just call their roommate that afternoon (it was at least noon) to ask if they were still sleeping...especially knowing that they were initially hanging out earlier in the night when JW/LS had discussed meeting up. HT and JW seemed to be cool so why not call or text HT to see. I have contaced my SO's friends before when I became concerned about them and couldn't reach them. Since they live together it would just be the next logical thing to do. Keep in mind that JW couldn't just go over to SW to knock on LS's door as he needed a key to use the elevator up to her floor. So you would normally contact the next logical person. I would think that HT told JW that LS left and went to JR's and that she didn't know if she came home or not. Then when JW discovered that LS hadn't come home that night by going to SW...he would probably contact JR to see if she was there (before going to the police). So if he didn't have JR's number then that would make sense that HT then called JR before going to the police...and HT is reporting to media her call to JR. HT and friends aren't silly enough to involve the police if they hadn't checked with her companion that night first. Details of CR and such didn't even have to be available then. JR's story to HT was enough...she left here at 4:30am and I haven't seen her since...and she didn't arrive home. Now no one knows where she is...and the bar lets them know that she doens't even have her phone with her. HT knew her physical state when she left SW for JR's...and knew that she went there to party more. Normal reaction to me is to start to really worry that something happened to her. You are now stuck and have no idea where she is...and know she was impaired the night before. Why not alert someone of authority at that point. If she turns up then all is good...they aren't going to get in trouble for going to LE since they are concerned. Several people...other than JW...were concerned so that part of the story has always added up to me. And even the later 'official' missing person report by her parents the next day...24 hrs after last being seen per procedure for adults...makes sense. And then her parents even flew out the next day after she didn't show up. LE was just notified of the missing person on Friday. LE probably wasn't too concerned yet as they are college kids and she could have crashed somewhere else. But much of that is assumed...as we don't know actual details...so don't shoot me there. But I'd like someone to tell me how that whole line of thinking would be flawed. Her boyfriend may be jealous and paranoid, but her girlfriends were concerned too so there has to be some logic there.
So I talk about both sides of the coin there. I can't find anything suspicious with JW's story given the info that we know. So maybe there is more to that story.
I still have this gut feeling that the DEA is involved. They have raided twice before in B-town. There were no arrests made. The DEA is very careful about having plenty of evidence before raiding. So what happened there? My hunch is that they are using the college kids to bait a dealer higher up. Happens all of the time. Arresting the low people on the totem pole doesn't really stop the drug use in the community. That would also explain the informant rumors going around. But if DEA performed two raids and no arrests were made...do they just walk away when the drug problem in B-town is known? And now someone OD's from the lack of DEA arrests....how is that going to look? Pretty bad, huh? And keeping those drug dealers under wraps so that they don't give away their case would also be reason why the POI names aren't being released, LE is giving confusing answers a lot of the time, and stuff like that. From what other students are saying (since POI's aren't talking), drugs were involved...and DEA has been in B-town. All speculation...but you draw your own conclusions.
JR and the drug theory...or JW and the jealousy theory. Who knows? Sorry this is so long. I don't post much...not much time...so I crammed it all in one post.