Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #4

Neuromancer said:

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Quote (from prev thread):
Originally Posted by itsthevibe
Maybe - what you describe is possilbe but a couple of things I'd think unlikely is the physicality from her unless she was actually fighting for her life. Although it hasnt been verified, a couple of people early on said he had scratches and large bruises to his chest and that one of the bruises was like he had been kicked in the chest. As I said this isnt verified but the profile of Allison doesnt sound like she would retaliate if he was being rough with her. it's not impossilbe though.
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Allison was a ballerina (5 years in Qld Youth Ballet).

If her life was threatened she would have kicked like a mule.

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My comments there were in response to someone who had suggested they had an argument and Allison got angry and scrached and kicked him, then he went out or something, or Allison went out and got attacked and killed by someone else. I was saying i dont think she would have kicked and scratched in even a very raging argument, but I totally agree if she was fighting for her life she would have. she loved life from what I have read and she had three beautiful children and wonderful parents and friends - a lot to live for.

I hope that those who are getting frustrated with the forum and thinking of leaving will come back and make their usual quality contributions. The week coming up could be pretty significant with forensics due and I do think it is time to lift the tone to really show how we can all have some really strong, top-notch discussions.

I know it must be hard for newbies only joining in in the last 2 threads but in the first thread we really sorted out a lot of things, and I can see it gets frustrating for some of those here from the beginning to have to remind everyone that certain things have already been established. I know it is quite time-consuming but reading the first thread is very helpful. (although its not perfect either!)

I think it takes a lot of discipline to be on here and stick to the rules, focus more on facts, but also allow other information to come in that is credible, and than discuss and speculate without going off-track or resorting to ideas with no basis in anything other than an imagination clutching at straws, or random thoughts. Especially as we have so little to gon, and so few official reports. But it can be done!

Anyway i really hope some of our best contributors dont leave out of frustration.

If it is established in a court that the catalyst in this case was domestic violence, I really hope women take note and realise that it is not worth "staying together for the kids" or "appearances". No matter what, they need to get out of situations like that. If one woman's life can be saved because of the high profile of this case, then Allison would not have died in vain!

Check out the pupils in this image of gbc
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=1
Then you can visit this drug awareness site for details about tell tale signs of drug use in eyes.
http://www.community-awareness.org/Lincolnshire/sections.php?page=2
I would suspect a possibility of Cocaine. IMO

Profplum said:

Check out the pupils in this image of gbc
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=1
Then you can visit this drug awareness site for details about tell tale signs of drug use in eyes.
http://www.community-awareness.org/Lincolnshire/sections.php?page=2
I would suspect a possibility of Cocaine. IMO

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Well spotted Prof ! - at first I thought you were nuts, then really honed in on his eyes via my ipad, and I have to agree. Those pupils are mega.

alicat said:

I checked with a mod and this is ok to post

http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2012/...or+Aussie+Criminals+and+Crooks)#comment-25169

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I was originally on this forum. Great moderator on there, he lets you say what you like.
There has only been one other case that I have followed with such interest(Jason Downie and the Kapunda case) On that forum we seemed to have been able to post a lot of F/B comments,I know,cause I did this. This forum)(WS was great for the info,got me hooked. But,a lot of you are "bagging" Robbo's site but his site too was fantastic during the other case. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if he was privy to inside news.

Limaes said:

I haven't seen it either Angel! BTW If someone can point me in the direction of the "female ex-colleague" - via PM of course - I would appreciate it. I promise not to disclose any names

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Me too, pretty please.

RE: roundabout, I wonder if the thing they are timing for is a how long the car or cars of interest are OUT OF SIGHT? they know how long it takes to get from a to b with out needing to stop traffic, I still think they were recreating footage they have, and timing where the car could have got to, given the amount of time absent from the cctv. If you are working within a 20 minute maximum, it limits how far the car could have gone, or how many times it could have made a trip to say, one house to the next, or one way to bridge and back etc.

Profplum said:

Check out the pupils in this image of gbc
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/gallery-e6frer9f-1226336989408?page=1
Then you can visit this drug awareness site for details about tell tale signs of drug use in eyes.
http://www.community-awareness.org/Lincolnshire/sections.php?page=2
I would suspect a possibility of Cocaine. IMO

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There are multiple reasons for large pupils. One is when there is less light. That room they are in appears to be darker, so that could explain it. Also, he may just have larger pupils. There is wide variation in size of pupils amongst the population. I think drug use is a big jump from just one picture.

as for something being out of place? it makes sense it would involve a car/cars because if someone was meeting at say, Kenmore Village, they would likely drive there. I know if I was out at that time of night, the roads are mostly deserted. If I saw a car parked but running or two cars parked but running, I would definately notice it( thats not to say I would be suspicious, but I would defiantely remember it) The time frame between 11.30 and 4am would probably mean there is several trips as mentioned many times before, but I believe they are building a timeline for the events and are filling in the pieces with additional witnesses.

Strangeworld said:

There are multiple reasons for large pupils. One is when there is less light. That room they are in appears to be darker, so that could explain it. Also, he may just have larger pupils. There is wide variation in size of pupils amongst the population. I think drug use is a big jump from just one picture.

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that's right, it can be caused by any kind of excitement, when adrenalin is pumping through your body, and he looks pretty excited here, that could be enough to dilate his pupils.

also, they would have to stop traffic if they wanted to imitate traffic events from that night, no cars to slow down times or hold ups,

The flowery story telling of the media with the description of Allison putting the kids to bed on Thursday night really gets my goat. Seriously, where do they get the gall to make those kind of assumptions.

I think too often they play the telephone game and on top of that try to make a narrative and we end up with misinformation. No article has blatantly corrected the walked at 10pm, walked in the morning change. They just switch to the next story with no acknowledgement of what was previously reported. This says to me they know the original story was not substantiated properly.

I respect the rules of this forum. However I think we are at a crossroads where social media is no worse a source. Obviously people can deliberately make stuff up, or have misconstrued something and then present info incorrectly, but the media is just as capable of that and just as willing to do that to fill space. At least with social media you know someone is not just writing to fill a space as per there job. And they likely have a closer source.

In a previous thread a member posted a longg, very informative post about what we knew at that stage as being "confirmed facts", "rumours/gossip" etc.

It would be really helpful if that member might like to do an updated version of that post, please??

ozazure said:

The flowery story telling of the media with the description of Allison putting the kids to bed on Thursday night really gets my goat. Seriously, where do they get the gall to make those kind of assumptions.

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If you noticed that journo's name on that flowery story & google it, she's an author of crime books or something like that, says it all I think.

minni said:

also, they would have to stop traffic if they wanted to imitate traffic events from that night, no cars to slow down times or hold ups,

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really thinking out loud here, but what are some of the scenarios that could have taken place?


1. NBC(or someone who would help out a man like this) gets a call from GBC and drives out to Brookfield through kenmore, spends half the night out of view of cctv cameras, meaning maybe travelling from Brookfiled out to Mt Crosby and back again... returns through roundabout sometime later. it would be many hours if this was the case and could indicate the timeframe was made because he was seen at the roundabout then. THIS DOESNT EXPLAIN ANY OUT OF PLACE EVENTS AT ROUNDABOUT, SO SEEMS UNLIKELY, UNLESS POLICE ARE USING THAT PHRASE TO GET ANY INFO AT ALL FROM LOCALS AT THE TIME. If GBC is guilty and it was an argument that got out of hand, then I kind of see this as a possibility. It fits the whole theory of NBC being boss and fixing up little mans mistakes...and who you gonna call when you've just murdered your wife??? if anyone? that list cant be too long, I think

2. GBC could have met someone here to transfer her from one car to the next, or been picked up here and driven off with someone who was assisting him. again NBC features heavily in this cover up type scenario. and it fits the out of place behaviour at or in the vicinity of the roundabout (remember the wording from police is in the vicinity of roundabout)

3. ABC could have been seen on cctv footage. I cant really think of a scenario where this fits yet, but will keep trying. You would think there would be some footage of her after the hairdressers, driving through, but that is early in the evening. It doesn't seem likely, at least my brain isn't thinking like that yet

I wonder if we could put forward hypothesises, and then try and disprove them based on what little information we have been given. It would help us to stick to the facts, and maybe discover some new ideas

minni said:

It fits the whole theory of NBC being boss and fixing up little mans mistakes...and who you gonna call when you've just murdered your wife??? if anyone? that list cant be too long, I think

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I would add the mistress to that list (if there is indeed a mistress). She would be someone who GBC confides in and is already used to sneaking around and keeping GBC's secrets, so he might trust her and find her a more willing and sympathetic accomplice than his father.

Curiousasacat said:

I wouldn't be surprised if he was privy to inside news.

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I doubt this very much. I doubt the police have people in the case that they let out snippets too (and why this Robbo?). From what I have heard, he is definitely a guy who tries to make money from his site. The police and media have absolutely no reason to be giving him insider info.....I think some people (not directed at you curious) think that the detectives spend their days on the phone, telling this person info, then telling that person info. It's just simply not how it works.

Another example is a person in one of the threads stating that 'they overheard' a conversation (said person was a police officer - again a friend coming in who police office friend told them) about something. Wouldnt happen, unless that person wants to lose their job. The detectives dont just rabbit on about the case in an open environment of the local cop shop. They would know when they discussed this and who was in station at the time....................and would be on the blue collars bums BADLY, if something like that happened (and rightfully so)..................................FACT - Informed so, by a REAL police officer.

Although I understnd why we are chatting about Gerard's kick to the chest. Again.............Any police officer (at the home that morning) or nurse attending to him at the hospital, would be under strict instructions not to talk to anyone.................They would be putting their own jobs in jeopardy to discuss such things. I earnestly doubt that the true people who saw his chest, would ever have discussed what they saw. All we truly know of is a scratch under his eye.

Although people may be rabbiting on about TOS and how others in the family need protecting (bring out the violins), at least when people were talking about the brother in laws "short story', they were talking about something HE actually did write.........................not like, these hairdressers, friends of a friend, that they know from the back fence of what now seems one of the most gossipy areas to live in Australia.

Paradox11 said:

I would add the mistress to that list (if there is indeed a mistress). She would be someone who GBC confides in and is already used to sneaking around and keeping GBC's secrets, so he might trust her and find her a more willing and sympathetic accomplice than his father.

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yes.... if she doesnt want her own secret (the affair) exposed, she could be talked into anything maybe...and yes, maybe she has been involved in other unsavoury dealings with GBC, he could have 'dirt' on her and she may be under his control for fear of him exposing her too....he would have to be a pretty sad excuse for a human being but who knows? it all becomes very days of our lives, very high drama....

also I dont know what the statistics are, but how many murderers get help from an accomplice? I cant imagine ringing someone and saying, hey I just killed someone, want to help me? and trusting anyone with a secret like that....and if I were on the other foot I would urge anyone that came to me and told me that to confess, I wouldnt be able to consciably keep a secret like that and absolutely would not be able to assist hide her body, I dont think many people could or would (maybe only a family member, but still)

Re: timing of the vehicle.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the trip home from the hairdresser's would involve that roundabout? Someone mentioned that ABC used the white Prado, and a white car was the one used in the tests by QPS. Could they have been determining what time she arrived home from the hairdresser after being captured on CCTV?