WI WI - Kelly Nolan, 22, Madison, 23 June 2007 #1
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SeriouslySearching
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I wonder if the women around Madison are taking extra precautions in light of what has happened? I know my daughter with her friends went out tonight and it was my first thought. At least, I know they don't drink and will be coming here afterward. As a parent, it must be difficult to have a child in Madison tho. I would be so nervous about her going anywhere until this perp is caught. I think I would be reconsidering allowing my kid go to college there this fall.
I am sure Madison is a lovely community, but at the moment there are too many unknowns. It would scare the bejezzus outta me.
I am sure Madison is a lovely community, but at the moment there are too many unknowns. It would scare the bejezzus outta me.
Thanks - this is interesting. As regards 2) - Madison is a big place. The UW is 50000 students. But in general it's very, very safe. Most women, myself included, feel safe walking around late at night alone in the campus and downtown area. There's always people around. She could have felt comfortable, but I doubt she was drinking alone.
SeriouslySearching
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I believe in the buddy system when going out. Never leave your buddy with anyone! You can never be too careful. I wish you would rethink walking around at night alone, Ang.
Straitfan
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Has there been any word from her friends that were with her earlier that night? Me and my sis/cuz's were recently talking about things we did when we were young, omg... splitting up, taking off in different directions, lucky we are all still alive as we weren't very smart when it came to thinking about who, what, when and where we were...in big city (Houston) no less.. but don't think most people think about things until they grow up or became a parent themselves.
I wouldn't now, that's for sure. I guess I meant that probably 20 to 1000 women walk home alone at all times of the night in downtown Madison. I wouldn't have thought twice about making Kelly's walk and my safety.
Unlike the suburbs that I now live in, there's always people around in Madison. I'm just trying to explain the setting and the general student thought process. The only time I had boys walk me home was when I wanted to hook up - otherwise I felt fine walking by myself.
SeriouslySearching
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I keep going back to review the serial killings from 68-84. I wish I could find more information on them.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/1.html
I know I have said this before, but Kelly's case fits too well. It also fits the cases of Sarah Gonstead, Diedra Hall (except her location), and Angela Drake. It makes me wonder how many more there could be out there.
http://www.truthinjustice.org/penny.htm http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1106/2702_diedre_harm.html
The similarities I found in all the cases: Females, 17-24yo, 6+ had left bar area in Madison, most found in wooded areas, all with ties to UW, except 2...all found within 14 miles of Madison. 5 happened in early July and 5 in late spring. Out of all of those, 4 had been stabbed, no cod on 3, 1 blunt instrument,1 burned. Sarah was shot, but found near Mineral Point Road. (I realize we don't have a cod on Kelly yet, but I would be willing to bet it will be a stabbing. It would make sense because they could tell from a distance as LE already stated.)
Here is what the coroner said in 1999:
Deputy Coroner David Scullion gave an interview to the Portage County Gazette in which he said, “I personally feel there are several similarities. The patterns are wooded areas, off the road aways in concealed area(s).”
It is also interesting to note that each victim was young, wore her hair long and parted it in the same manner -- eerily reminiscent of Ted Bundy’s victims -- and all of the victims were found within a short distance of Madison. In addition, they were all somehow associated with the University of Wisconsin either through classes, employment or living at a campus residence.
It’s not always clear that the murders have really stopped and the killer is not just in some cooling-off period or is perhaps disposing of the victims in a way that their remains will not be found. What is probably called for is a an additional two-pronged investigation to determine from missing persons’ reports whether the killer may still be active and covering up the evidence of his crimes and, if he is not determined to be active, what may account for the murders ending in November of 1984.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/4.html
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I would say 3 full days on a crime scene going over every single inch of the grounds and soil would be expected. They already said it was multi-jurisdictional. They pulled out all the stops on this one with major forensic teams.
I have even found a suspect for them to take a serious look at. Remember, I said he could be mid/late 50s, raising a family, creating a bonified career, and becoming an outstanding member of the community. This person would have access, be in a trusted position, plus could have a motive related to the college. No one would have suspected him.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/1.html
I know I have said this before, but Kelly's case fits too well. It also fits the cases of Sarah Gonstead, Diedra Hall (except her location), and Angela Drake. It makes me wonder how many more there could be out there.
http://www.truthinjustice.org/penny.htm http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1106/2702_diedre_harm.html
The similarities I found in all the cases: Females, 17-24yo, 6+ had left bar area in Madison, most found in wooded areas, all with ties to UW, except 2...all found within 14 miles of Madison. 5 happened in early July and 5 in late spring. Out of all of those, 4 had been stabbed, no cod on 3, 1 blunt instrument,1 burned. Sarah was shot, but found near Mineral Point Road. (I realize we don't have a cod on Kelly yet, but I would be willing to bet it will be a stabbing. It would make sense because they could tell from a distance as LE already stated.)
Here is what the coroner said in 1999:
Deputy Coroner David Scullion gave an interview to the Portage County Gazette in which he said, “I personally feel there are several similarities. The patterns are wooded areas, off the road aways in concealed area(s).”
It is also interesting to note that each victim was young, wore her hair long and parted it in the same manner -- eerily reminiscent of Ted Bundy’s victims -- and all of the victims were found within a short distance of Madison. In addition, they were all somehow associated with the University of Wisconsin either through classes, employment or living at a campus residence.
It’s not always clear that the murders have really stopped and the killer is not just in some cooling-off period or is perhaps disposing of the victims in a way that their remains will not be found. What is probably called for is a an additional two-pronged investigation to determine from missing persons’ reports whether the killer may still be active and covering up the evidence of his crimes and, if he is not determined to be active, what may account for the murders ending in November of 1984.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/4.html
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I would say 3 full days on a crime scene going over every single inch of the grounds and soil would be expected. They already said it was multi-jurisdictional. They pulled out all the stops on this one with major forensic teams.
I have even found a suspect for them to take a serious look at. Remember, I said he could be mid/late 50s, raising a family, creating a bonified career, and becoming an outstanding member of the community. This person would have access, be in a trusted position, plus could have a motive related to the college. No one would have suspected him.
Trino
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The male drownings were in LaCrosse, which is 140 miles from Madison. LaCrosse is a river town.
SeriouslySearching
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Thanks, Cheko. I think I have heard of those before.
Gosh, is there something in the water up there?! I can count on one hand the number of drownings and murders we have had here of college students.
Gosh, is there something in the water up there?! I can count on one hand the number of drownings and murders we have had here of college students.
I'm sure many have heard of these. We have discussed them many times here at WS.
Dreadful to say but the cost of a college education in Wi these days is horrendously expensive when you have to pay with your life. Either you get so drunk you drown yourself / or the gals vanish after a night out at the bar.
SeriouslySearching
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I have only been on WS since January and wasn't into sleuthing before then. I am new to all this.
If these boys/men were so drunk...how did they get to the water from the bars? Crawl? Most drunk males that age would prefer drunk calling from their cell and trying to end up...er...uhm...not alone or they would end up passed out on someone's lawn/sofa/curb instead of taking a dip in the water. Strange.
Getting back to the cases in Madison...I didn't find much if anything about sexual assault of the women. Have you ever heard anything on that part?
If these boys/men were so drunk...how did they get to the water from the bars? Crawl? Most drunk males that age would prefer drunk calling from their cell and trying to end up...er...uhm...not alone or they would end up passed out on someone's lawn/sofa/curb instead of taking a dip in the water. Strange.
Getting back to the cases in Madison...I didn't find much if anything about sexual assault of the women. Have you ever heard anything on that part?
SeriouslySearching
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That certainly is remote and secluded. No wonder they had such a difficult time with the area. Wouldn't it have been absolutely pitch black there at night?
Yes, Mr. Despain was a reporter, and a seasoned one at that. That being said, I'm willing to give him a pass on a few errors as he is serving in a much different capacity than before. Every word he says is now being scrutinized. He'll get better.
Yes, I would like to add more insight on the topic, however this is a public forum and can be read by anyone. Therefore I have tried to choose my words carefully. I may be able to give you some things to think about and in doing so answer some questions.
Actually, at this point I'll just remind you that LE had divers in Lake Mendota four days after her missing persons report was filed. You can speculate all you wish.
Trino
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I don't think this is appropriate. There are thousands of students who attend WI colleges. Probably 99.9% (or higher) are responsible kids who don't drink to excess or are part of the hundreds of students who walk home from the bars each night in Madison. Maybe lifestyle is more of a factor than schools.
My reply to your post.
1) Wrong, they would not say they had a suspect unless....that's all I will say for now. More at a later time. Correct, they have said they have no suspects.
2) Waunakee is like a suburb to Madison. You can go from downtown Waunakee to downtown Madison in the 20 mintues you describe. Easily. I say it's very likely she could know someone walking by at bartime.
3) That's the million dollar question.
Bingo! You just won a prize!!:woohoo:
Beyond Belief
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I am thinking abt what was suggested about how dark it was. I would imagine really dark, unless a full moon that night.
That and I wonder if the neighbors often smell the horse stables. So what is it a random spot or chosen because the perp knew there would be odor and hoped it would be mistaken for the horse stall smell. Making the perp very familiar with the area. And was she on the side of the road leading away from town or on the opposite side.
Great information on that 80's murders.
That and I wonder if the neighbors often smell the horse stables. So what is it a random spot or chosen because the perp knew there would be odor and hoped it would be mistaken for the horse stall smell. Making the perp very familiar with the area. And was she on the side of the road leading away from town or on the opposite side.
Great information on that 80's murders.
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